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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Weird Question re: X-Anon Groups
Often, if someone is posting about an addict in their lives, everyone recommends one of these groups/12 step programs.
I once looked into Overeaters Anonymous and found out that these 12 step programs are very faith based in that you need to believe in a "higher power". (ie step #2 is usually "Believe that a Power greater than overselves could restore us to sanity", step #3 is "Make a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God")
What would be recommended for someone who has no belief in God or a "higher power"?
(An unmatched left parenthesis creates an unresolved tension that will stay with you all day.
The Princess of Anything is Coming!
Had a dream I was queen.
Woke up. Still queen.
The Princess of Anything is Coming!
Had a dream I was queen.
Woke up. Still queen.
Re: Weird Question re: X-Anon Groups
This is a link to OA's 12 steps, which are almost identical to AA and Narc-Anon: http://www.oa.org/new-to-oa/twelve-steps.php
I would say it's faith based. As an atheist, I was completely turned off by it.
The Princess of Anything is Coming!
Had a dream I was queen.
Woke up. Still queen.
My former athiest clients often went to AA. Athiest AA members often define "God" as "Good Orderly Direction" or the idea that the "higher power" was "the power of the group." That is, "We can do more together than any of us can accomplish individually."
That said, each X-Anon group develops its own personality. So some are very religious but the meeting the next hour may not be religious at all.
I didn't realize that being atheist meant that you believed that you were the highest power in the universe. No snark intended. It's just that if your life is vering off course, that you admit you need help (or at least seek help) to overcome an addiction or behavior, that it isn't beyond the relm of intellectual conviction to say that that their is a "power" or "force" beyond your own self who can and wants to help you.
If you can't accept that, then no, these self-help groups are not for you.
Which is a-okay, but begs the quesiton, why do you think you are the most powerful force in the universe if you can't overcome your own addiction? Especially when these groups fall all over themselves to say that "g*d" is not dogmatic, just a realization na higher power - as defined BY YOU.
You make a good point and I liked what 5thOfJuly had to say. And no, I do not think I'm the highest power in the universe, but I think I should be the highest power in my life.
I do admit that these sort of groups left a bad taste in my mouth after researching the OA groups in my area and finding that a lot of them starting and ending with Christian-esque prayers.
My perspective is also that I'm responsible for myself in a sort of "make your own destiny" kind of way (I can't really articulate what I mean at the moment). Granted, I haven't had to deal with a severe addiction or anything like that so my view is kind of limited.
I just see that Anon groups are recommended quite often and I don't think they're a one size fits all kind of thing, though I realize I'm in the minority with my religious beliefs (or lack thereof).
The Princess of Anything is Coming!
Had a dream I was queen.
Woke up. Still queen.
You make sense. It's just that the whole point of X-Anon, is that you STOP trying to be the captain of your own destiny and give-over that to a higher power. Not because someone is trying to rope you into some religion or something, just because it works. Sure, it sounds counter-intuitive that giving-over power actually gives you power in your life, but that's the heart of it.
Clearly, there is a lot to learn and I can't do it justice in a few words here, I just hate to think that you write if off completely when you probably don't need to.
Huge irony that you chose the the core debate of Christianity upon which to base your choice of atheism.
http://pfrs.org/calvinism/calvin12.html
These groups, especially those associated with alcohol and recreational drugs, can really vary in terms of how they interpret "higher power". It can take some shopping to find a group that fits. There are all kinds of groups, some are overtly religious ones like the one at our local Baptist Church and Reform Synagogue, there are some based on vocation with groups for physicians or clergy, there are some that serve teens and young adults or seniors. Locally the Quaker spin with the emphasis on "that of God in everyone" seems to be a good fit for those who are agnostic or atheist. My BIL got clean and sober primarily using a Quaker based group. It's been 18 years and he's now quite active in the group. He came to the process as an atheist and is now an ordained pastoral counselor working in the field. I think his beliefs have morphed along the lines of his Lenape forefathers and that his higher power is more of a "Great Spirit of Ancestors".
I'm going to disagree here. AA works for some, it does not work for all. I'd even say it doesn't work for many. It's may be the best at reaching the most people, but that does not mean it's the right option for everyone.
People are different. Some people are more inclined to believe they alone are in control of their behavior; other people are more inclined to believe external forces influence their behavior. Neither is right nor wrong. They are just different views of control. It's part of your personality, and for some not easily changed.
AA-type groups might not work for someone who has a strong internal locus of control. And that's okay. I would suggest working with a counselor to develop a plan that will work with your own natural inclinations, rather than trying to force you into something your not. That's a good way to set yourself up for failure.
The important thing is to get treatment. It doesn't have to be AA-like. And don't let people make you feel bad of you don't think an AA-like program would work for you.
A higher power can be anything that you would agree is more powerful than yourself. This dosent have to be "God". I have heard some addicts that did not believe in God say that there higher power is there medications or the program and AA book itself or even there sponsor (because of the extended time they have been clean). A higher power is just something you can look up to. You want to make sure it is something that will not faulter in itself because that may make you follow in its footprints also. Ask for others in your group to give you some ideas.
Actually, they are. While it is true that the groups have stretched their definitions to be belief-inclusive, they are, in fact, Christian in origin. Right in the AA Origins section on their website (http://www.aa.org/aatimeline/) it states that the origins can be traced to a religious movement, and Bill W (considered the founder, for all intents) "planted the roots" due to a "powerful spiritual experience" rooted in the practices of the Oxford group.
I have a few friends and close family member who are AA participants and one of the points we discussed after I had been to a few meetings was, "interesting that there is a thinly veiled religious tone to AA. I wonder how courts can order attendance without violating separation of church and state."
That's not a judgment in either direction. It's just a thing that makes me go "hm."
Agree with everything mentioned here. OP, when you bolded the God parts in the 12 steps, you didn't include the AS YOU UNDERSTAND HIM. It is not faith based at all. It is, as the poster that I quoted said, just admitting that there is something out there bigger than yourself.
I agree that the Alcoholics Anonymous can be traced to a religious basis, but as a member of Al-Anon, which is the support group for families of alcoholics, I never experienced any overt attempt by the group to influence my personal belief in what my "higher power" was.
I do agree that there are many different X-Anon groups out there, and some of them do have a religious sponsorship associated with them (for example, in my area there are a few Al-Anon groups that are informally 'hosted' by a Christian church and their meetings definitely have a more religious influence to them (they end meetings with the Lord's Prayer for example).
In my experience, each group's membership influences the tone of each individual meeting, and this can change day to day, week to week, month to month and year to year depending on the makeup of the members that attend any particular meeting. The best solution for me was to attend all the Al-Anon meetings in my area until i found the best fit for me and my personality and personal beliefs. Each meeting in my area was very different from the next, just because of the people that usually attended any specific meeting. It took a lot of work and commitment on my part to attend all the meetings and find a good one that I liked, but that work was part of my recovery, too.
To the original poster, I hope you do find a place where you can get the support you need without feeling like you have to compromise your beliefs to get help,
Is one of the Christian-esque prayers you're referring to The Serenity Prayer? "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." This prayer does not have to be to God, but it is a strong reminder/affirmation to addicts. Most addicts believe they are in complete control and this "prayer" is a way of saying you are not. It's also an acceptance of who we are as humans.
info on atheist addiction groups:
http://skepchick.org/2011/10/ask-surly-amy-nonreligious-alcohol-and-addiction-help/