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Risa *** answer to your ? in WWIND post *dulce maria - something for you, too
But didn't he ask to go to Tstan? Not that that makes it any less shitty. You don't have to answer this because I'm just being nosy but is it because there's no more work for you guys in Tstan since they're moving you home too? Would he still be employed if he has stayed in NYC?
*****
I will answer your question, mostly because it allows me to vent.
He did volunteer to go to Tstan when they were looking for someone from NY to go. The partner in charge of this office is based in Istanbul and didn't want to spend too much time in Tstan. They wanted someone they could trust and knew how things worked at HQ to be here and in charge of setting things up and overseeing the local attorneys. While not having to pay a partner's salary, of course.
So last November at the associate luncheon he was getting praised in front of everyone for stepping up.
When he got here, it turns out that there wasn't the amount of corporate work they expected. Some of it went away, some if it is just much slower than expected (he should be done with some deals that are still in the beginning negotiation phases) and some of it some partners inexplicably gave to NY or London offices.
He has managed to bill as many hours as corporate associates in NY, but doing a lot of arbitration. They haven't fired anyone in NY, so it's safe to say that he would be fine had he stayed there. Especially because there were new things starting up there that he would have been a part of from the beginning until now.
Now they are saying, "Jeanine, we have tons for you in NY" because I'm in the arbitration group and telling him "we don't expect to have much for you next year, so goodbye."
It's all a bit strange and even more a-hole than they normally are, which is why we wonder if any of this has to do with the wedding. Who gets fired is mostly a decision made by a few partners on the personnel committee and only one of them really fights for his group - despite them having nothing to do since 2008. It's ridiculous that the partner my husband works for in Tstan - with the second largest client in the firm - didn't try to use his influence. I really hate him now (also due to subsequent things said in an email, followed by ignoring DH) and don't know how I will keep it from showing when he arrives back in Tstan next week. AHHHH
******
Which gets me to Dulce Maria's point. I understand your point about Iraq and appreciate your concern. He's applying and we'd have to see what the benefits are if he were to get an offer. It would be in house at a big company, which is something he's wanted to do for a while, and apparently the security is good (it's also Basra, which is better than Baghdad). With travel benefits, we may be able to only be there a few weeks of the month and spend the rest of the time in Qatar or Dubai or something.
Plus, it gets us (especially me) out of the emotional wreck state we are both in, which is worth a lot.
If we had other good options, we probably wouldn't take Iraq, but since it would be something he wanted to do while allowing me to take time and figure out what I want to do (I've never wanted to stay in big law long term) while giving us good benefits... I definitely think it's worth a shot. I mean, just taking the time to learn Arabic and maybe volunteer somewhere for a few hours a week could help me get a good start working towards a career in development.
This job would allow us that freedom - instead of me working for an employer I hate while waiting for him to find a job elsewhere and trying to look on my own without it getting back to him (this has happened in the legal field - a partner at the place you are applying will see your firm and send an email attaching your resume to a partner they know at your firm in order to ask about you and BAM - your firm knows you are looking for a job). I know that it's about more than money and we'd have to consider the whole package. I just don't write off any place immediately - I had a friend have a great experience in DR Congo for a year. Another friend working for DFID was in Afghanistan for a year and liked it so much she stayed longer than her post required.
Re: Risa *** answer to your ? in WWIND post *dulce maria - something for you, too
I'm not trying to be mean/snarky/etc but this was my first thought when you told me you guys were moving there. But I only based that on Tstan being not as mainstream as NYC or Dubai. I don't know much about practicing law though so I am probably totally wrong in my assumption.
No, the thing is that the government is our client and wanted to do x,y and z things that were corporate. DH was supposed to work on those. Those specific things haven't really gotten moving like they should have. So of course in general Tstan doesn't have as much work as other places, but this office was only opened in response to a specific, large client wanting us here to do a few things. In that sense, he should have had plenty to do for the year he was here.
I was going to quit to move here, but they let me stay on because they needed help in arbitration (which we have tons of cases for them). So this office has work - just not that much corporate at the moment. Which, unfortunately, reflects the law firm in general on a worldwide scale, which is why they let go of him and not me (I have shown an interest in arbitration from day 1. It's a part of our corporate group, so they just moved me over).
Some people can move to crap holes and thrive. I don't think you're one of them. Tstan is going to seem like the civilized world compared to Iraq (I have a friend that rotates there from London). Your expectations of Tstan just seemed so far out of touch with the reality of the place (so many comparisons to Dubai) that I can't help but think you're doing the same thing about what Iraq will be like.
Anyone with any remote experience working in Tstan should have known how slow business moves there (my DH has worked there) getting any contract done takes forever. That's totally on the partner in Istanbul, he should have known better or at least told the guys in NY that things don't move at their pace.
I could not agree more.
It's totally okay to not be someone who can live anywhere. I'm not. The thing is, I know I'm not, so I'd never challenge myself in that way.
I'm going to say this, and it's going to make me an ***, but here goes. If the firm was unhappy about the wedding, that's totally on your H. He handled it VERY badly and that kind of thing sticks in an employer's mind. I'm sorry that it happened to him, most definitely. It's horrible. But he should take that as a lesson-- don't lie to your bosses.
Wedding stuff.
What happened? Did I miss something?
Wedding stuff.
Oh ok. I remember that. I thought this was going to be something different around the time of the actual wedding.
And yes, I agree that the engagement announcement (or lack thereof) wasn't handled very well on his part.
Not really. I think she's referring to the January thing, which I don't think has any relation to this or that if it did, they really would have sat around waiting almost an entire year to get back at him.
They could not have gotten me a visa. Or not offered to let me keep my job when I was ready to quit to come over here. Or not given us recommendations on where to go while in Bologna.
Snippy. I don't think you're an a-hole for saying that, but I do think you are way off base. There is a lot to law firm politics and calling me a girlfriend when I was a fiancee (unofficially) would not be reason enough for them to make the decision they made.
Anyway... I see that I have to keep my posts to way more superficial topics. I don't appreciate comments on who I am based on the few times I write something bad about Turkmenistan (which may bug me, but not really even be such a big deal so as to keep me up at night upset or anything like that). So, my bad.
In November we were seriously talking wedding. As in told our parents, talking to wedding planners, etc. (It actually started earlier). But we'd had some fights - which I didn't think were that big a deal but he did. So he told them he had a girlfriend in Dubai, not saying it was me. He wasn't sure we would make it. He also didn't want to be engaged "officially" until he'd given me the ring and done the proposal, but hadn't done that since he needed his end of year bonus.
I was pissed off because he was planning a wedding with me while just calling me a girlfriend to the employer. He wanted to make sure he kept his opportunity. He didn't mention that he wanted GF to move in with him at some point during the year, or that we were getting married.
When I found this out (a few days after our official engagement) I got pissed and flipped my sh!t. He told the employer that his GF had now become his fiancee and that we were planning a wedding for October. This was about 5 days after the official engagement.
It wasn't the best handling of the situation. Maybe they didn't want someone here with a wife or fiancee and finding out the day he arrived that he'd gotten engaged ENRAGED this partner. But then he agreed a few months later to let me come and to continue to employ me when I had already stated my intention to quit? And while still holding onto his anger, he planted the seed in NY in October to get rid of my H for this?
They don't want the expense of any expats in the Tstan office after December 31. We are not being replaced. They were cheapskates and DH has been out of HQ where all the big players are for a year. They are jerks and have handled it horribly, but knowing what I know of big law and our firm, I doubt they thought so far ahead as to even link January and this.
If anything, us both being gone for the wedding and honeymoon bugged them and spurred them to get rid of one of us.
DUDE. You complain all the time. You talk about how much you miss Dubai ALL.THE.TIME. Even when it's not relevant to a post. It's clear that you want to go back there. Can you DH find a job there?
You don't have to pretend that all is well and good in Tstan if it isn't!
Dave & Jennifer 10.18.08
My Doha Adventures
I know I need a Nest break after this, but I think you're being really presumptuous here. Many people compare where they are to the US (siggy challenges on what you miss from home, opening hours, no Target, etc.) - I don't think that means that they don't like it where they are, it's just normal to make comparisons. In Dubai I didn't really miss much from the US. I could have stayed away for years. So here in Tstan, which is admittedly more difficult, when I have my expat stories, I compare it to Dubai. Doesn't mean I expected them to be the same or anything like that - although there are similarities.
When I do complain that something bugs me, it's usually just a quick complaint. I'm not staying up at night worrying about it, I'm not crying, I'm not counting down the days until I leave. We actually wanted to stay beyond the contract because it's not so bad and there are a lot of good things (besides money, our work/life balance is better here, among other things).
I remember before I came GilliC said that Tstan was really gross and that her husband had been here and it was dirty and there was sh!t in the streets. I really don't think it's that bad - although I'm not claiming it's this amazing place, either. I was eager to come back after our honeymoon in Nepal because I do think it is clean, safe, good weather and "civilized." I don't recall ever saying this is some uncivilized, barbarian place. I was sad when I was told I'd have to be in NY sooner than expected because I'm not ready to leave.
Maybe it's not thriving, but I don't feel horrible about my life on a daily basis. Yes, I wish I could find more things in the stores and that there were entertainment options, but I laugh a lot and will cherish some of the stories we will have to tell our kids. The stories I write here about Independence Day celebrations or the crazy over the top security for the president are amusing to me because they are so absurd. I don't have strong negative feelings about it. But of course, I'd like better internet access so I can keep in touch with the world more.
I do not regret coming here. Even if it indirectly caused my husband to lose his job, I'm still glad we did it and will remember being here pretty fondly.
I didnt mean to start a debate about Jetur. I hope everything works out in the end with your DH and that he finds a job soon.
I never got the impression that you were miserable in Tstan. I am sure it was hard to adjust to at first and I am glad that you are able to appreciate your time there.
I was just a bit worried about your safety and about your health. I know you said you have some health problems in the past and I am sure the stress is not helping it now. I just wanted to point IMO happiness and health always beats out building your savings.
Your "amusing stories" are not, "It took us 45 minutes to get to our get away hotel b/c of the president's security. haha. What an adventure. You'd never see that at home." Nope. They're more like, "OMG! Can you freaking believe that the stupid government of Tstan had the unmitigated gall to make us walk around the hotel?!"
Your self awareness is rubbish. You come off hating how tough Tstan is. You had a DW. Who cares? Different strokes for different folks. Some people can adapt to an environment where you can't get tomatoes on demand and some can't. My limit is refusing to live on a compound again. So what? Some people love the routine and safety of it. I felt like I was in prison and being offered more money to live there wouldn't change my mind.And actually it was my husband who has been to Tstan, not GilliC's and I didn't say there was sh!t in the streets I said it was in a desert checkpoint in the middle of a drive across the desert between Ashgabat and Turkmenbassy.
Word. Glad I'm not the only who thought this. I do not get why you are so defensive about this Jet, and it's ridiculous. Maybe you're just emotionally charged right now, but damn. My husband has nicknamed me "Complaintor" and I own it, I know it. I complain about everything, I'm never totally happy. But at least I KNOW that I'm like that. You seem to think you're this totally upbeat person who has HILARIOUS stories about living in a completely different culture.
You aren't.
Wedding stuff.
Neeps hit the nail on the head. Jetur, what's wrong with owning up to things?
ETA: left out a word
2012 Reading Challenge
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I don't remember any particular posts from Jetur complaining about the culture over there. Frustrations about certain things and how they were done yes, but to me that's normal to complain about / mention when you're living in and getting used to a place that is SO different from what you know.
I don''t care enough about weddings and their details to get into DW or not.
I remember posting once (not here) about how it drove me nuts that Chinese people (in China) frantically push the door close button before everyone is even on the elevator. Or if they see you running for the elevator, they are frantically pushing the door close button. Like they can't wait the extra .2 second to let another person on.
I was called racist, among other things.
So I can see that something that to the poster might be a funny annoyance about their host country can come off wrongly, but I don't know if that was always the intention.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
I don't understand why there is a problem with Jetur posting stories about living in T-stan. I don't think she sounds like she's complaining, she's just saying it's different. When we met in person, she and Stefano had plenty of stories about T-Stan, I thought all of them were funny and they did not seem like they were complaining, just adjusting to life in a completely different world than they were used to.
Some people on here need to chill.
I don't think I'm always upbeat. I'm a homebody and an introvert (which in a way helps when you live somewhere without a lot to do). I don't have really high highs or really low lows. There isn't a HUGE difference between me being super happy and me being super sad. So maybe it came off wrong. I'm not going to apologize for you guys reading everything in the worst light. There are plenty of complaints about how long it takes to get something done with the UKBA or whatever - no one jumps down their throat about hating the UK.
I'll admit - I'd rather be in Europe. Dubai was much easier and compared to here I'd rather be in Dubai. Doesn't make my life here hell.
I'm not saying I didn't have difficult moments here. And some of them stemmed from me and DH and our issues in how he ended up in Tstan, not Tstan itself. I can't stop you from piling on and assuming the worst, but I think it's BS for you guys to act as if you know me better than I know myself because of some posts on the internet.
But Snippy... glad you are so proud of being a a-hole. Own it! Something we can agree on.
ETA - I'd like to add that I sent that same "it took 45 mins to get to the hotel" story to friends in an email and got all positive results (that's hilarious, something like that happened to me in x, etc.). People who actually know me IRL like my stories, ask for them, and understand the tone.
FWIW Jetur, It did seem like to me that you didn't like it there, but I definitely thought your stories were interesting.
I'm hurt Jet. Really. It feels a bit like a tickle in my cold, dead, waste of a heart.
But hey-- feel free to point ME out as the only one who's bringing this up. Cause I was clearly the only one. And I never said anything about being an ***. I said I complain a lot (in an effort to let you know that complaining was okay) and I own that part of me because I understand how it appears to others. Point being, that you need to own that part of you. There's nothing wrong with being that person, as long as you understand it. If being self-aware makes me an a-hole, then so be it.
I'd rather that then someone who fools themselves into thinking they are something they're not.
Wedding stuff.
What you have chosen to put out here are posts entitled "GD Tstan!" and posts like this where you complain about how you don't understand anything, or here where you're feeling like there is nothing to do and you're cut off from the world. And questioning why you live in Tstan because you had to follow their president's security procedures.
What I meant about your self awareness is that you clearly don't get the tone or style of your posts certainly leads a lot of us to believe that you hate Tstan. And that same tone or style complains about the entire country/culture of Tstan. Not just that it's hard or annoying to live there.
I merely pointed out that I really think Iraq is going to be more of what you had expressed you hated about Tstan - not understanding anything, the lack of veggies you want, when you want, nothing to do, etc. And I had to wonder what you expected from Tstan, because that would have been pretty obvious to me going in that I wasn't going to understand the language and my social life was probably going to be pretty limited. It just seemed like you'd expected it to be like Dubai (saying you didn't notice supply chain issues when you lived in Dubai while talking about not finding tomatoes in Tstan).
You seem to have problems with people who see things from a different view point than you do. I don't. So I'm willing to concede that perhaps my take on the tone of your posts was off. So my apologies.
As a side note - I wonder if you see the irony in saying that it's BS that those of us who don't know you IRL can make judgements based on your posts, but you can call Snippy an a*hole without knowing her IRL?
holy shizz! no tomatoes in Tstan? I remember that. lol
I
this, neeps.
I must need to work on my tone and writing style also. The point was to try to show Jet how what she writes makes us think she hates Tstan not to poke fun at what she's said. I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt before I read the post where she clearly went off her rocker. Now I'll just block her and move on.
No, I got your tone.
I just remembered that post because I thought it was silly.
ETA: I just liked how you linked those posts to show her how it came across on here... I didn't think you were making fun of her.