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Reintroducing toxic family members.....
If you have had any amount of success in doing this, please come in. And if you have had bad experiences, could you share those too?
Toxic MIL has decided that she is going to ruin our holidays....oops, I mean, become part of our lives AGAIN!....and we are both struggling with this. Big time. We have set boundaries, limits, and have house rules for all situations with her; including she is not allowed to call our house, she cannot visit without all of us present, and when things get ugly, DH has to be the one to call her out on it and ask her to leave.
In the past year, DH has met with her on his own twice. Each time, she asked to see our kids. He refused, saying that we were not ready for that. She backs down, in that moment, but then brings it up every time they talk (every 4-8 months) and he has told her no. MIL will go months without any contact, then pop into the picture when it suits her needs.....this last time, she had not called since July, and wham, it's November (my birthday this month, holidays coming up!) and she calls and starts her drama. It's a pattern.
This last time, about a week ago, he told her no on the phone that she was not allowed to visit, but then did discuss it with me and wanted to call her back. He asked me how I would feel about a short (15-30 minute) visit in our home, and I tentatively agreed, and we talked about our list of rules and how to handle given situations, and we tried to be on the same page. As this visit approached, I was anxious, tearful, and then suddenly angry that DH was putting me in this position.....yes, I admit, this is giving HER power over me, and it sucks, but there is a long backstory and she is completely evil and vile. 
We made it through her visit (45 minutes total, 35 of which were spent sitting in awkward silence with her watching football with her husband #5) and after they left, DH thought it went "fine". I thought it was awful. I said that if she demands another visit with all of us, it's going to have to be in a public place meeting for coffee after church or something, because clearly, we are not ready to have her in our home just yet. DH agreed. MIL's husband was rude to us (openly) and MIL sat in stony silence most of the time, and we had the kids go play upstairs and not interact with her.
The problem that I am having with this is that our marriage counselor told us a few years ago that we should limit contact with MIL and other toxic family members, which we have and do, but that when they reach out, we have to have an open, honest discussion about it and tackle the interaction with them together. DH's take on this is that we have to be open to meeting with them (once or twice a year) and he can talk on the phone with them, and as long as he talks to me about what we're going to do, that we follow this plan. Counselor did not tell us to cut them off completely, she did not say that we had to STOP all communication with them, but just said that whatever is in our path has to be tackled together and we BOTH have to have a say in what we do/don't do in regards to in-laws. We have followed this so far, and I have to give DH some credit for following all of the rules we have set together.....but moving forward, I know I cannot change their behavior and need help coping with this.
Obviously, my first choice would be cutting them out completely (no phone calls, no visits, no ANYTHING) because that makes my life so much easier and better. If DH is happy with 15-30 minutes once or twice a year, then do I just play along with this plan and trust him? (I have a hard time with trust issues because we really, really struggled for a long time with in-law issues and problems.) The last two to three years have been a huge step forward for us because now he includes me in all decisions, and we do have a better communication about all things (money, kids, schedules) in our marriage, not just the in-law situation. He has said that he knows the relationship with his mom is never going to be what he wants it to be, and that his relationship with me and our kids is going to be his #1 priority, and he does follow through on that. He has hung up on his mom, he has called her out on bad behaviors, and he has refused to answer her calls when we are doing something as a family.
Is it realistic for me to suggest he go back to meeting with her alone a few more times, THEN we will discuss another family visit? Or should I let this go, knowing that it will likely be many many months before we deal with this again?
Re: Reintroducing toxic family members.....
I personally think your DH needs more one on one help w/ the counselor (or maybe even a different counselor) in coming to terms that his mom isn't and will never be the "mom" that he wants and sees other people have.
It seems like he keeps things open w/ her because he somehow feels he has to, because she's family, because she's his mom.
But what, really, does he get from a relationship with her? ANYTHING? I really sit here and read this and wonder why he wants her in his life at all. Other than some obligation he has somewhere in his head.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
DH cut off several family members in the past and they have become part of our lives again (all re-introcutions stemming from dh wanting his dad back in his life; all other relationships come with that package).
My feeling is - - it really is not my job to tell my dh who to keep in his life or not. That is really his choice, and I'm not sure I would want my partner dictating to me who I am "allowed" to maintain contact with.
However, things like exposure to the kids and visiting your home - that involves you and you have veto power. I have told my dh that I don't want his toxic family members near my kids or in our house. Ever. We had an argument when he emailed a family photo to one family member.
What is the purpose of MIL visiting your home? Does your H want a "normal" relationship with her? Just because **YOUR MIL** wants a visit...she's going ot have to learn that wanting isn't getting. I just don't see the point of her being in your space, no matter how well she behaves. Even before we cut off FIL and his wife, they never came to our house anyway!
I also think that many relatives who are cut off want the "trappings" of a relationship so they can pretend that things are normal. Hence, the house visit.
Agree with pp. Ex-H's mom was the same way, and ex-H just kept letting her back into our lives even though all she did was cause drama, blame ex-H for all her problems and take up all our time. Even when she wasn't around we had to talk about how to deal with her, so she really did take up most of our time together.
NOT WORTH IT. Don't go down that road. Get your DH into some one on one counseling so he can get rid of those guilty feelings and realize he's better off without her.
I had called MIL over a year ago, when she decided to make a guilty phone call to DH on our son's birthday, and verbally told her *why* we are choosing to keep her at arm's length.
I went through each scenario (you ruined our wedding rehearsal night, you made me cry on my wedding day, you ruined our son's birthday, you made my parents cry on that day, you treat DH like he's a pawn, you are disrespectful to everyone around you) and each time, I got this sickening sweet, "Oh, that is NOT true. You know I don't do those things!" and I said, "Yes, oh yes, you do. Stop it. Own it. Apologize for it. But don't make me sit here and feel like I am losing my mind over your bad behavior." She started crying and said I was attacking her (playing the victim) and hurried up and got off the phone. She KNOWS we have been in counseling over her, she knows we have separated due to DH's anger issues stemming from her, and she thinks its great fun to see if she can cause more problems during stressful times....ie, holidays, birthdays, special ocassions.
DH has said on a few occasions that he is never going to be able to cut her out 100%.....there have been times we have not spoken to her in over a year, or close to two years, but there has never been a defining moment that makes him stop taking her calls or whatever. The thing that hurts me is that we will go months (in this case July-November) with no contact; then a sibling calls him and says "Oh, mom is doing so bad....she's sick....she misses you." and we get flung into the drama.....yes, with better communication this time, and it's not like he goes rushing to see her, but he feels extremely guilty, even though we get NOTHING out of her in our lives. There is not one thing, in over 12 years together, that I can say positive about this woman. Not one. And he has several siblings that won't even talk to her....he is one of two children right now that will take her phone calls and there are six siblings total. That tells me that we are not the problem at all....
Utterly frustrating.
In a nutshell, I think this sms up your whole problem:
Becuase what happens next is that you explain what a horror she is, so now you're the witch. He's a little hurt. You feel unsupported. Again.
Julie, he has a blind spot for her. This whole post is just a really long way around and around YOU doing all the hard work to keep this toxic person out of your lives and your DH ushering her back in. The rules, the boundaries - that's all you. I know you want it to be your DH's - but it's your hard work. It's great that he's kinda on board with the basics, but he doesn't SEE it.
You have got to let go of all control of "what's next" for MIL in your life. I know you hate hearing that. I know your desperate to anything but that, but really your DH has all the tools he's ever going to have to deal with this. He has to start making good decisions. An you have to stop forcing everyone to prevent bad ones.
If he doesn't know and is having a tough time reintroducing her into your lives, then he needs a good counselor to turn to. Someone that he can get mad at and listen to and argue with and roll things over with - not YOU.
You keep doing this to yourself, just as much as your DH keeps doing it.
Julie, he thinks a 45 minute visit with 35 minutes in cold hard silence is fine. That's the reality of what you are dealing with. You have to admit that and dealwith that. And stop denying that and stop fixing that and stop explaining what's wrong. He has to do it. Or nothing is going to change and you are forever goign to have a pit in your stomach tensed for "what to do" next - and caught trying to "get your D" to do it.
And I don't mean to say silent on the matter. I mean tha if he says "Mom wants another visit" you say "I really didn't like it last time, why don't you come up with another plan?" And then let him go off and think of something new. Something you can agree to. If he challenges you, says "Why no?" demands to know why he can't resist the urge to rehash and prove everrything to hm- just shrug, and say - "I wasn't good for me. You know that. Do something else."
What does he want to do next? Does he even know?
Based on your previous posts about this woman I would avoid her at all costs and keep my kids away from her.
Obviously your husband wants a relationship with her, or he wouldn't keep trying. He's an adult and can make his own decisions about that, but you have every right to keep your kids away from her and demand that he do the same.
This says it better then I can. And there is an option to go to counselling with her. If he insists on you seeing her, that would be the only place I'd agree to. I highly doubt she'll follow through, but maybe your husband will stop trying shift the blame since you're willing, it her who is refusing to do what is needed. Maybe.
But my first thought when I saw the post title and your name was "oh hell no! Don't let those people near you again" so i certainly wouldn't blame you if you said never again and suggest he try counselling alone and with his mom and then maybe in a few years you'll consider joining them. IF the counsellor thinks it will accomplish anything.
We didn't talk about it at all after they left; I honestly was too exhausted and tired to care. We waited a day or two, then I said, "So, honestly, what did you think?" and he said that it seemed fine to him. I pointed out that her husband was openly rude to us, that his mom never said two words to me/the kids, and only talked to him, and the entire thing was awkward. He agreed with me about the husband comments, then said, "I don't know what to say about my mom. She does look really bad, though." I didn't say a word. I think she is playing a game, when she does come over or we see her, she limps like crazy and hangs on to furniture and "acts" the part of someone who is ill so that DH will feel worse....
I said that having them in our house was a lot for me to handle, and if it puts that much pressure on both of us that we don't do it again. He did agree to that, and I said I would be willing to meet with them in a public place, that's it, and with or without the kids present (prefer without).
I don't want to use my kids as pawns, but at the same time, I don't want the confusion of who she is, and why we see her once every 2-3 years, and why mom is crying in the bathroom every time she comes to see us.....I hate it. I also hate that my older son (now 8) refers to her as the "lady that likes dad." If a child can see this, and it hurts me to hear it, then why on earth doesn't my husband see it? When I told him DS's comment after we saw her last summer, he blew me off and said that I was probably exaggerating to make her look bad.....totally not necessary, she does a great job on her own of making herself look bad.
I have tried the route of having DH have a relationship with her alone, and SHE keeps bringing up seeing our kids, coming to our house, etc. He tells her no for awhile, then backs down and feels guilty saying no, and then asks me to be the "better person" and make him feel better and let her come over. It's never a good idea; we usually fight, and this time, we are now on day #4 of the quasi-silent treatment to each other and the very tense, very polite, "How was your day? Good, how about you?" comments to each other. I told him that a week ago, we were not like this....at all....and that it's not fair to either of us to let someone else interfere with our relationship.
Part of the problem is me, and part of it is him. I completely overreact and feel threatened by her, and he thinks I am creating more of a mess than it needs to be for a brief visit once or twice a year. I just find it harder and harder to come up with solutions to fix any of it.....
I think you need to bring this up in counseling. And I still have to wonder that it might help him to see a counselor (again, perhaps a different one all together) on his own to talk about his mom and hash these issues out.
Right now, you're the scapegoat.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Julie, it really might be that he wants to have a relationship with her and giving in (about the kids) is easier than fighting, in his eyes. Until you both get on the same page he's going to continue to blame you and make this your fault. You've BEEN the better person about this all along and he keeps trying to make you feel like you aren't.
I think it is maybe time to have a come-to-jesus, no kids seeing the MIL ever chat. Possibly in an appt with a counselor.
He is managing his own interactions with her. He isn't dragging her into your family life. So if he wants to visit her, fine. However if I were you I would not at any time be ok with seeing her myself or the kids seeing her. And you shouldn't have to be the bad guy defending that position every time he asks you to please allow a visit.
I am invisioning that you have it out, establish a "not in our home, not ever with the kids" visiting policy, and then every time he brings it up after that (aka ever time she guilts him) you say "honey if you want to talk about it go ahead and schedule the therapist appt, and let me know when to show up. But until then, the answer is no and I refuse to discuss it".
Julie, why have you guys been silent and tensely polite for four days? It was a 45 minute visit a few days ago. I can understand being on edge before and a bit tense after, but what's got you this upset so many days later that you guys are cold?
Is it anger? Was the visit a trigger for something else? It seems like a really huge reaction (by both of you) to an event, while charged, didn't last long.
Does this happen with other things too, or just her?
Julie, why have you guys been silent and tensely polite for four days? It was a 45 minute visit a few days ago. I can understand being on edge before and a bit tense after, but what's got you this upset so many days later that you guys are cold?
Is it anger? Was the visit a trigger for something else? It seems like a really huge reaction (by both of you) to an event, while charged, didn't last long.
Does this happen with other things too, or just her?
Julie, I don't usually reply to your posts, but I've been following your story for years, and right now I kind of want to reach through the computer and shake you.
You know your MIL is toxic, you know that your H has trouble keeping her at arms length, and you know that none of this is ever going to end well. Do you really need to ask us if it is OK to put your foot down and say she can't come to your home and see your kids? Of course it is OK!
I forget who said it (livinitup?) but you definitely need to bring this up in counselling (again) how your H needs to stop dumping the blame on you for any of this. It's his issue to figure out why he craves the attention of someone who dumps all over him, his wife, and family, and he needs to stop twisting it around and making you the scapegoat.
Prediction (which really is a no-brainer for anybody who knows the backstory) -- while spending time with Julie's family over the upcoming holidays, Julie's H AGAIN gets all butthurt over how psychotic his mother and his upbringing was, takes it out on Julie in front of her family, storms off, ruins yet another one of his kids' holidays, and Julie blames it all on the MIL.
You are well on your way to 20 years from now, your kids wanting to cut both of you out of their lives, or at the very least their father. Their memories will be the same as his -- the crazy parent and the ruined holidays.
And if he thought everything went fine, then why did he give you the silent treatment for four days? You've been clear and honest as to why it threw you off, but why does he get to walk around annoyed? SInce he put htis into motion, shouldn't he be the one checking-in and getting you two back to a good place, by like - talking to you.
He does not give me the silent treatment for days, but we both have a lot of hurt feelings and frustration after interactions with the in-laws....it leads to terse, lets be polite interactions for awhile afterwards, because I don't want to talk about it and feel angry, and he feels that I should be more supportive and less upset/hurt with him.....so we avoid any real conversations for awhile, until we both feel back on solid ground.
It is a sucky cycle to be in, and honestly, if there were no children involved and we did not love each other, I would have walked a long time ago....but after investing a lot of time and money and therapy into a relationship, am I willing to toss all of that aside and just leave? Not really.
Am I also willing to walk away and let in-laws step in and badmouth me in front of my kids for the next X amount of years? Ummmm, nope. We have both worked way too hard for that, and it's one of my biggest fears.
Yes, I know a lot of the hard work and rules/boundaries have been mine, but it's only to protect myself and the children that we are trying to raise with the right set of values and morals....
DH has a few toxic family members. If he wanted one of them to come over, I would flat out tell him "no fvcking way will that person set foot in my house and meet my children."
I don't trust them, and I have ZERO problem being "the bad guy" and "it's all Suebear's fault" that they do not come over. Let either of them think I'm the b*tch, b/c I don't like them anyway and never will.
And my stance WILL NOT CHANGE!!! So dh would know better than to ask if it is ok "....this time...next year....five years from now...."
Why don't you just tell your H that it will not happen, and if he wants his mom to come over, he'll have to move out and have his own house, b/c it won't happen in yours? If it is not up for discussion, you can't fight about it year after year.