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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Article: "Why some women are burning out at work by 30"
Huh. I don't think this article explains it at all. I didn't read with a scientific eye, but I think that men go to the same colleges that these women do. I think men are equally unprepared for the realities of the daily grind.
As someone who wants to focus her work hours on helping individuals and communities grow in different way, I've never been really ambitious to climb any kind of ladder. Nonprofits are typically small, and have limitied promotional areas. Maybe for that reason - and for that listed in the above paragraph - the article didn't really speak to me.
It didn't really speak to me either. Then again, I love my job. Yes there are days it's stressful and I feel like I have way too much to do, but for the most part our organization really stresses work-life balance. Maybe it's different for people in the nonprofit world? Although, I was just talking with someone who experienced burnout a few years ago and she worked in the nonprofit field. A young executive director. Hmm. Maybe it's just too hard to generalize about stuff like this.
ETA: I will say that it is important to learn how to relax and alleviate stress. I learned this when I went through my divorce several years ago. It's important to take time for yourself, drink some tea, meditate. Otherwise you'll go batsh*t crazy.
True -- it may be different in the nonprofit world.
I thought that certain aspects of this article were quite interesting.
For one, it said that men are more likely to take breaks during the day which helps them prevent burn-out. At first this really surprised me. I would have thought that men and women are equally likely to take breaks. But then when I began thinking more about it, it began to make more sense to me and I see it in those around me. I feel like men are more likely to "work" on a golf course or over cocktails. Women may feel more tied to their computer or Blackberry.
This line (and the whole paragraph) kind of spoke to me: "They don?t know what they are striving for, which makes it really hard to move forward.? I feel that way about my career, myself.
Also, are men more content because they better "fit" the way that the standard corporate environment is set-up? 8-5 jobs, ambitious ladder-climbing, etc. And women are naturally more inclined to be wanting to help people (healthcare, non-profits, teaching, etc.). Also, women may place more importance on flexible working schedules and benefits, which aren't necessarily a reality in corporate America. Obviously, I'm generalizing here, but still.
I'm starting ramble, I think.
Kasa, I think your "rambles" are interesting.
Are men really more ambitious and ladder climbing? I know Jim feels like he should be, but that's not his natural inclination.
I personally don't think they are. My H is a ladder-climber (started at age 16 and worked his way up to a fairly high position and is now 34). But his female co-worker did the same, along with his female boss.
I think ambition is on an individual basis, not on gender. I also think ladder-climbing has a lot to do with being in the right place at the right time and knowing the right people. Obviously that isn't everything, but I think it's pretty significant.
B is not either and it's something that he's really struggling with right now, for a variety of reasons. This is related to one of his frustrations with his new boss.
I don't think men are more ambitious. That's not what I meant. I think that by nature, men tend to be more interested in climbing the classic, proverbial corporate ladder. Obviously this isn't true for all men. And obviously many women are successful in this regard too. But I think it's a natural instinct for a man to be more... aggressive? competitive?... in this regard.
I know you're not saying that men *are* more ambitious.
I think B and J probably have a lot in common with struggles at work (especially right now).
I wonder, though, how much the stereotype of a successful man has formed men to feel that they *should* be more aggressive and competitive.
My next class is counseling for workplace (so career matches, planning, problems w/in the workplace, etc). This converstaion has just made me excited about that.
Ooh, I'd love to know more about career matches. Those tests we took in high school seemed so silly. I wonder how many people are actually in fields that they were "matched" in.
Sounds like an interesting class.
Yes, this could be the case, for sure.
Your class sounds very interesting!
This would be me too. This and I'm not passionate about what I chose for my career and it is hard to really get excited about moving forward when you don't love what you do... But, i don't see why this would be any different from a male.
I don't foresee me being passionate about anything. The thing I look forward to is owning enough houses to where the profits from rent are greater than the income I bring in, so I can quit my job.
But I doubt that will ever happen.
YES.
Me too.
I'm now torn between wanting to be that woman I dreamed of in h.s. and college, grabbing the world by the tail, having a "big time, important job" and being the woman that gets to be home with her kids (which aren't fully the people I want to be, but I can't let that go either). I want it all, and there's not really a way to satisfy both with where I'm at or leaning to be. Plus I am not passionate about my job in any sort of way, so that just sucks. Yeah, rambling. :-)
But what would that be? I mean, we were all fed the messages as young girls that women can do anything, but once one works at finally getting that "worldly tail" what is any one supposed to do with it?
Hillary Clinton is an incredible woman, and I doubt that in the middle of her day, she's bored, but we're not all going to be Sec. of State for the US.
What I suspect is that it isn't gender based, but a generation thing.
Men were taught to be ambitious and climb the ladder to the top, and women hammered at that glass ceiling. "You can do anything!" But now, we're doing anything, and well... we're not passionate about it.
My dad was frustrated by my choice to pursue nonprofit work. "Work during work hours, and save your interests for volunteering later." He said. I think that's the advice and mindset of someone in his 60's. He worked like a monster, and then was able to retire in his early 50's. Now he volunteers, and does things that interest him.
I feel like I can answer this. For me, I want a career that I find mentally challenging. My old job was so boring and then it felt like even if I gave it everything I had, there was nothing next, not even any meaningful recognition. Every job has it's challenges, but at the end of the day I want to feel challenged, pushed, even if it means putting in 12 hours + because a deadline is looming or I'm so consumed with the work. I also want the trappings of success--a nice home, nice car and the ability to take fantastic trips.
DP, was your previous job just a job, or were you thinking (maybe when you first started) that it would be a career?
I think that most people want a jobcareer that challenges them mentally, and compensates them well for it. But I think that, as this article tries to illustrate, those things aren't enough for those "burning out at work by 30."
This is really annoying. I wrote a response to this and thought I posted, but now it's not here. Brain is too fried to retype it
Back to the contracts outline...
Personally, I think I would be less likely to burn out if I felt the job that I was doing was worthwhile to the community or the world or to... someone. It would make me feel more productive, accomplished, and meaningful.
I have that with my volunteer work, but no one is paying me to do it. And trying to do it in my spare town is making me doubly burn out because it's exhausting!
GRSP, I do think you make a good point though about this being a generational thing. We all grew up being told anyone can be president. You can do anything that you set your mind to! And in reality, that's not the case for everyone. And it's kind of hard to accept, I think.
I'm going to post based on generalities here. I feel like women get burned out more easily because they are "supposed" to do it all. Work, home, kids, and be smiling and happy to run around 18 hours a day. It's more acceptable (and maybe, generally speaking, more likely) for a man to do his work and come home, not having daily "home" duties to do. This is not the case in my household, but in many I do know.
I also think that we were told we can do anything, be anything, get that job, move up the ladder, but the ladder isn't exactly that great. Employers expect more for less. There's more stress with most things in life now. Getting those great jobs with good ladders require A LOT of work... think about how hard we all had to work in high school, college and post college to prove ourselves. It's been, for me, 10 years of busting my hump to prove that I can do it. It's tiring!
Personally, I chose a career that doesn't really have a ladder. In the next few years, my pay will be based on my students' achievement rather than my level of education (positives and negatives there). In that respect, I do have a goal to earn a Highly Effective rating both for my own benefit and because I want to be doing the best for my students. I can see where teachers (and other working people) could easily get burned out if they don't take time for themselves.