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What Are Your Thoughts???
During my DH and I's last couples counselor appt. (we do individual and couples), his counselor said "nothing else is out there, all you have is in this room. She was saying how I should focus on DH and forget what or who may be out there. Although, she also encouraged me to date so eh.
Anyway, my friend and I were talking and we had this conversation about what you have vs. what is out there.
We find that some people believe love is a choice and a commitment. Sometimes, marriage and love isn't so great but you have to choose to commit and love. People have definitely told me this throughout my time - that sometimes, even when it is bad, if both people choose to work on it then that is all that counts. Love is a commitment is something I have heard lots. They believe love is a choice and you do what you have to do to make it work. They tell me DH can change and that if we both agree to 100 percent commit, then it's fine. They don't seem to have huge expectations of love - just that you sort of choose someone and stick it out and get through life together.
Meanwhile, other people encourage me to believe there is more and better out there. They think love is deeper, more inspiring, life changing and should always be passionate, fun, etc. They think love can just be a crazy adventure and even in the worst of times, be something wonderful, happy and romantic. They encourage me to go out and find something more than just a commitment but a true soulmate who is compatible with me and brings out the best in me and lifts me up and all that good stuff that you can hope from someone.They believe love is exciting all the way through and that someone can always be loving, reliable, trustworthy, etc.
I love to think number two exists but honestly, of all the relationships I see, they all seem pretty well eh. The couples I know never seem to really accept each other and they all seem pretty worn out trying to make the other person happy or constantly compromising and giving up parts of themselves. Even the most solid relationships, I wouldn't describe as very exciting, passionate or inspiring - even those that are still relatively new. And all relationships I know have had pretty huge deal breakers and problems.
I am sure the answer is a balance between the two. I guess though what I see in reality is why I am worried about what is out there. All my single friends say they hope for more for themselves than what they see other people have and they all believe 100 percent something better exists or they at least hope.
My individual counselor asked me once what I think love and marriage should look like. I realized that I wasn't totally sure (prob how I got in this friendship instead of a relationship). I mean I have a vision, but I am not confident it is realistic by any means. I completely stumbled on the answer and I realized that was telling.
What do you guys think?
Re: What Are Your Thoughts???
Very interesting post. I don't have a lot of experience seeing amazing, long lasting relationships in my life. The only example I have to draw from are my aunt and uncle, who have been married for over 40 years. They are pretty "boring" by normal standards. But they are absolutely committed to each other, through thick and thin. She had a double masectomy (removed both her breasts), and his weight has fluctuated more than 150 lbs over the past 10 years. They do not criticize each other at all. They are playful, loving, supportive, and yes, boring. But I respect them so much. They've been through it all. And I respect that. To my knowledge, there has never been cheating, abuse, or any "deal breaker" situations that would threaten their marriage. I'm sure they've had hard times, like everyone, but it didn't break them.
I do think that love (true love) is a commitment. Especially in a marriage. It's not a choice. Obviously, there are extraneous factors that make a marriage fail (i.e., cheating, abuse, neglect, etc etc). But I think that in all the other cases, there is something that I admire about people that tough it out through the "boring" stages of life, and don't just run towards the door at the first exciting thing to cross their path.
I don't know the details about your relationship with your DH or the background about why you're in counseling to begin with. But I think the commitment is the part that you should focus on, and figure out if that commitment to your marriage is there within you for your DH.
My thoughts that a marriage is a decision/vow between 2 people committing to love and support each other. There are going to be good times and bad times. I think marriage is sacred and if reconciliation is at all possible, then it is worth saving (outside of abuse and the like). But it takes both parties to be committed. It does not work if only 1 is committed.
As for balance, I think we need to find it in ourselves to be happy and to be the person we want to be and not depend on our partner to fill that expectation. We are human beings with strength and weakness and we all change through experiences. In a perfect world, we should reach this point before getting married but we all learn our life?s lessons differently and in different pace.
This makes me think of the phrase ?the grass is greener on the other side". If your grass is not green, then you need to water it.
I completely agree with both posts so far. And that is why I struggled so much making my decision to leave. I also believe its got to be a mixture of both your #1 and #2 scenarios. I think - aside from abuse and such - that if both parties are willing to work on things, just about anything is possible. And anything that is worth having is worth fighting for.
The thing that I'm most confused by though is that - if I'm reading correctly - your counselor is telling you guys to work on things, yet while you are on your own, you are encouraged to see what else is out there. Its one thing to encourage your own personal growth in individual counseling, but to give conflicting advice - working on your marriage and dating other people, I can only imagine the state of confusion that brings.
I don't remember your backstory if you've posted it, but good luck! I hope everything works out.
I'm not SO and just hang around this board, so you can take my answer with a grain of salt. I met my DH in college and we have been together eight years. We've definitely fought and had bumpy patches, but have never broken up or had what I would consider to be significant long term problems. I do think the reason we're happy is half a choice to make sacrifices for the other person, to put the communal good of us as a couple above individual wants and desires sometimes and overall just to compromise. But we still do fight, disagree, and the initial relationship hormonal lust of having to be together 24/7 has definitely faded. I certainly have not met anyone in those eight years that I was as attracted to or who I felt I would be as compatible with. People I could have dated and probably would have liked? Sure. But nobody I would have liked as much.
In the end he knows me better than anybody, he definitely brings out the best in me, he makes me feel like a better version of myself, I have fun when I'm with him even if we're doing something stupid like making dinner and watching tv, and I still get excited when we get to have lunch together or when we have a weekend where we can go hiking with the dog and go out to dinner. I have more fun when he is around period. I still want to throttle him on occasion and I know he wants to throttle me on occasion, but overall the good is much much better than the bad.
My relationship model is my parents; my Dad cared for my Mom for 10 or so years while she had cancer and even took care of her in lieu of her going into hospice when she died. And recently he said he doesn't want to date because everyone he meets is not quite as good as she was. Considering what they went through, to me that is a huge endorsement of the power of marriage.
I think you have to make a decision in terms of what you need from a marriage. Its ok not to feel like you're husband is giving you what you need and that by staying with him you would be settling. It's ok to think someone else could give you more of what you need. It's an issue for you to work through in individual therapy if this is a pattern for you; deciding things are unfulfilling when they aren't exciting anymore. I have a few friends who are chronically single b.c. they always believe there is better out there, but only you can figure out whether you belong in that category. And if you truly feel he is not right for you long term, don't let anyone guilt you into second guessing yourself and staying simply b.c. of self doubt. The fact that the therapist is telling you he could change indicates to me you have valid reasons to be pissed in the first place and depending on the damage done, you're not morally obligated to ignore your gut feeling and keep trying to force things. IMO sure marriage is work, but it also doesn't feel like work most of the time and the feeling of wanting to be with that person shouldn't just up and disappear. I feel like when people say its work they mean you have to make sacrifices and compromises, but a lot of the time making those compromises feels good, not like work.
I think marriage is a combination of the two, true love and commitment. One thing I heard consistently before I got married was not to have the image of a fairy tale, princess life with DH. Expect things to be good, but sometimes need work and effort.
You made one comment. " Even the most solid relationships, I wouldn't describe as very exciting, passionate or inspiring - even those that are still relatively new. " I am not sure what you mean by this? What would you expect to see in a solid relationship that is exciting or inspiring?
I have been married for a year and a half, and we have a very solid easy marriage. I would say that the only thing people would find inspiring about us, is that we seem to get along really well and like each other. I don't see marriage as something that is exciting per se, Exciting to me sounds dramatic with ups and downs. Maybe we are boring, haha.
Hm let's see what my crazy mind has to say...
I was married to a man who I never was in love with. I loved him at one time, but I could honestly say that as our relationship progressed, he was more or less just a very close friend. It's sad, actually, that I didn't leave sooner, but I tried to make it work, tried to hold it together for the sake of a stable future, and it was for all of the wrong reasons. It inhibited both of our happiness but we can't say we didn't try.
I've always imagined what love was supposed to feel like. I've been in relationships before and dated around, too, but never found what I always dreamed it to feel like, until I met my BF. I always thought love was supposed to be exciting, butterflies, and passionate. To yearn for the person, to miss them when you're gone, to have spark and fire, and bliss. But love to me, is also huge throwdown passionate arguments (that don't happen often), and it's never boring. We pick at each other and joke around and play, but we're never hurtful. This situation is just everything I dreamed it would be with the feelings that I have for him.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe that love is based on commitment and trust, also. That you need to work at it to make it last and it's something that communication plays a huge role in. I feel like my relationship with BF is easy. We get each other, but we have our problems like anyone else. It's never perfect, but it feels right and it feels good.
If he and I end up breaking up down the road, I'll know it wasn't meant to be, but I will tell you something now. I will never date someone that doesn't give me that spark ever again. I don't want to waste my time for something that isn't going to be what I want. Now that I know what it feels like to love and be loved in the capacity I always dreamt it would feel like? I'll never do the boring relationship again.
I think it is both and that a single relationship goes though stages
1st comes romantic love with passion and adventure, which (if you are lucky) then ebbs to companionship love with quiet sobriety.
I find that the latter half to be the inspiration, when one spouse deeply cares for the other esp during times of crisis (health issues, economic downturns) and they seek each other for comfort -that is a good marriage, that to me is love.
I had the first one for while then keep thinking the second would develop. I waited about 5 years before giving up on that dream and just settling for a so-so marriage where I spend most of my time alone or with my children. But then StBx behavior became too suspicious for me to ignore any longer so we're divorcing. While I acknowledge we both deserve a better relationship, it's just so unfair to our boys.
It definitely is a balance between the two...
while marriage and love requires commitment (yes that means going through some rough times and hard situations in life) it also requires pro-activeness on both ends to keep the passion there. I feel like there are so many misconceptions about the butterfly thing and "sparks" from movies and fairy tales...in real life there are real problems you have to face together. There will not always be the excitement or passion...sometimes you will down right want to be left alone, but in the end you really do love that person unconditionally. For me, its all about how well we can go through life as a team...its that balance of keeping each other laughing despite the life long problems you always are forced to face, communicating, while really enjoying each others company.
We always make a point to at least have one date night together once a month...if not more. We will order in and pick a movie, ill cook and set the table with some wine and candle...etc. You also have to constantly think of each other...once one of you becomes selfish, there is lack of understanding, not as much compromise, and unhealthy communication.