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I don't like my future SIL or his parents; daughter refuses to listen
I've known my FSIL for several years. He and DD have been dating pretty steadily since freshman year at college, although they were high school friends before that. They are both ready to graduate and a wedding is planned for 2013.
I've always had a few doubts about him -- he is academically unmotivated and I don't think his future is that bright.
But it's his behavior that is alarming. He is very emotionally immature -- he is always *right* and is pathologically argumentative. He also has trouble filtering his thoughts and I worry about his impulse control. (He has been diagnosed as mildly ADD; his father is profoundly ADD and still takes meds for it).
I've tried to be a good mom and stay out of it, because I thought the bottom line was that he made my DD happy. But lately I've noticed he picks at and criticizes her, in a disrespectful way. He also talks constantly about an old girlfriend. This girl is a close friend of my DDs and is married; they all still hang out together, so at first I didn't think too much about it. But it seems as if he is comparing my DD with the old girlfriend -- unfavorably. ???
I've tried to talk to my DD about it, she won't listen and gets belligerent with me whenever I try to help her see what I am seeing.
Then there are his parents -- his father is just like him, if not worse. They also are cheapskates and have already refused outright to pay for the rehearsal dinner. DD wants me to just suck it up and pay for a rehearsal dinner along with everything else. Grrrrr ......
Any other mothers experiencing this? Is there anything I can do?
Re: I don't like my future SIL or his parents; daughter refuses to listen
Deciding to not pay for the rehearsal dinner is well within their rights. The only people who are obligated to pay for a wedding are the bride and groom. If somebody OFFERS to help pay, it's a gift.
unfortunately it's best you stay out of it, even if you see the relationship is doomed, it's her mistake to make.
and they have til 2013 to save for their own RD, don't enable them by paying for it.
Gretchen Evie, born 7/8/2012 at 35w5d
I think its pretty rude that she expects you to pay for the rehearsal. If she's got entitlement issues, then you may have had a hand in creating some of that. You don't have to just go along with it.
I'd stop trying to talk to her about any of this. You're just making yourself a target. I would start treating her like an adult with adult responsibilities. She's probably in a really comfortable place with little perspective. She's dated the same guy for years, in the little bubble of college life. I'd focus on withdrawing as much support from her as possible as she leaps out the nest and into a married life. Let her lean on soon-to-be husband to make decisions and build their life. His flaws will reveal themselves. Maybe he'll surprise you. If he doesn't, I hope she sees the light before the wedding.
Your daughter won't listen to you, or anybody else, regarding this. Love is blind and you know how it is --- they're always right.
Is there anybody who is a neutral third party who could perhaps take her to lunch, sit her down and tactfully tell her that her betrothed isn't the great guy your DD thinks he is? There's got to be somebody she'll listen to -- a good friend, maybe, or a cousin or somebody whose opinion she will hear out?
Like PPs have said, neither you nor his parents are obligated to any part of this wedding. Not wanting to pay for the RD doesn't make his parents "cheap."
If you can afford it, my suggestion would be to offer to pay for the wedding on the condition that they attend a certain number of pre-marital counseling sessions.
If she is old enough to make the decision to marry then she is old enough to pay for it herself. I certainly would not be funding a rehearsal dinner let alone a wedding to guy I didn't want for a SIL. Also, your princess DD has some gall thinking she is entitled to you picking up the tab. I like the suggestion they work for a few years and then talk to you about helping them with funding a wedding.
Do not talk about him in a negative way it will make her defend him. I would probably say something along the lines of, "you are wonderful, don't ever let anyone make you feel less" or "I hope you don't think you have to compete with so and so," or "if there is anything you want to come to me then do not be afraid, I will support you." (this does not mean $$) Build her up so she sees for herself that she does not need a jerk.
All of this. And I'm sure she already knows perfectly well what you think of this guy. The best thing you can do from here is have a good time with her when you are together and build her up yourself. I don't mean enable her sense of entitlement or bail her out of adult responsibilities, but it's amazing what hearing "what's great about you is. . . ." on a regular basis can do to shine the bright light of contrast on someone who doesn't build her confidence.
His parents may be cheapskates, or they may not be financially in a position to make a commitment for an event being planned two years out. The bride and groom will be viable adults - anyone other than the two of them contributing to their wedding is a lovely gift, not something they should expect.
Tell your DD that the rehearsal dinner is out of your budget, and that if she wants to throw one, she can pay for it herself. She has all summer 2012 to earn the money - as does her future husband. By the way, rehearsal dinners do not need to be fancy. She can have pizza if that is all her budget will allow.
I would not criticize the FSIL to your daughter, but I also would not allow him to criticize my daughter IN MY HOME. Sit your daughter down and tell her that her relationship with her fiance is her business, you realize she is engaged to him and that it is her choice, BUT you do not tolerate someone who belittles your family (which includes you, her, her siblings, your dh) in your home. If he starts picking on her in your house, you will tell him to leave (she can leave too, for all your care, but you don't put up with that in your house). They are free to spend all the time in the world with each other - but cannot act that way in your home. It is not HIM that you don't like, you don't like his ACTIONS, and you will not permit him to behave that way in front of you under your roof.
When the fiance is behaving well, by all means put your dislike for him aside and be so warm to him that butter melts in your mouth! Also, be very aware of the vibes that you send around your DD. She KNOWS you don't like him, so you can't make snide comments and think she won't pick up on them.
I know how you feel. My daughter's boyfriend is a complete and total a-hole and we cannot even stand being in the same room with him. They were engaged but called off the engagement and now they just live together.
If I saw her BF disrespect her I would say something immediately. I told him when they started dating that as long as my daughter is happy then I'm happy but if he ever hurts her, we're going to have a serious problem. My daughter has told me a lot of bad things about him and I've told her exactly what I think about him but she chooses to stay with him & there's nothing we can do about that. When we visit her, we are polite to him because it's their home but he doesn't come to our house and that's fine with us.
The problems w/her BF caused some estrangement and we didn't talk to our daughter for a very long time because she wanted us to apologize to him over a horrible incident and we simply refused.
They have 2 children together & we have let things go for the sake of our grandchildren but it sucks because she won't leave him until she's really tired of his crap.
Having said that, there's really nothing you can do. She will be with him until she really sees the type of man he is, hopefully that will be before they get married.
As far as the rehearsal dinner goes, I agree with everyone else that you are under no obligation to pay for it. You pay for what you can and tell your daughter now that you have a buget of X amount of dollars and anything over that will be their responsibility.
It's my greatest concern. As I said, I've known him awhile, but the disrespect was something new that I haven't seen before. I've been good at keeping mum about his other issues, but my reaction to his disrespect kind of set things off. DD is very emotional and defensive and kind of in denial "he's not disrespecting me -- he's just tired," etc. I know the only thing to do is to back off and hope for the best.
And I *am* obligated for the wedding, for the simple reason is that I committed to it a long time ago; I'm not going back on that commitment.
I do like the idea of giving them a set amount of money and letting them make the decisions. This definitely will minimize conflict, although I suppose our new arguments will center on *how much* money contribute.
Thanks.
About the rehearsal dinner - they don't have to pay for it, and really if I was you I wouldn't pay for it either. The bride and groom should have/can have to pay for SOME things on their own, I would count this as one of those things.
About their relationship. You already let her know what your thoughts were on the subject, now it's time for you to stop talking about it and just be supportive of her. No amount of anyone telling her is going to make a difference, she's going to have to figure things out on her own. If he's really not any good hopefully she realizes it before the wedding but if she does you just need to be there for her. If she doesn't, she's an adult and again,I'd just be supportive.
Has anyone put him on the spot and asked him why he's with your daughter if he's still so hung up on the old girlfriend? I would want to see this jackass squirm.
Also, as PPs have said, never put her in the place where she feels she has to defend him. The more someone defends another, the more they believe in that defense and adopt it for themselves. I doubt she'd listen to a family friend or another person who might be perceived by her to be taking "your side" but I'm a huge fan of pre-marital counseling and strongly believe in its value. Maybe you could find a good therapist and offer to pay for those sessions?
I agree with the others. I met my DH when I was 19 and got married at 25. Part of the reason we waited were the financial implications; my parents paid for college, if I had been married I would have expected to pay for myself, I was able to stay on their insurance in grad school b.c. I wasn't married, and we knew we would be paying for our own wedding. i figured it we were grown up enough to get married, we were grown up enough to pay our own way.
In your situation I would come up with a number you and your H are comfortable on and offer that amount of $ to her. Let her know it can be for the wedding, for grad school, for a house down payment, whatever but that is it and that is what she is getting. I agree that you should not pay for a wedding you do not support, but it sounds like you plan on paying regardless. She needs to be the one to budget and make adult decisions re. financial priorities. Once she's married no paying for things or financially supporting her, she's on her own.
Perhaps I can share my thoughts from a daughter's perspective. Now my mom is very critical and my DH is wonderful though not perfect and my mom being who she is LOVES to critique everything and everyone. I don't stand for it. I don't bother defending my DH to my mom - I just tell her keep her opinions to herself. Those conversations never go well. After all, she is my "mom" and her opinion should "matter". But MY romantic relationship isn't her business.
Your daughter's relationship with her FI is between them - you have no place in it. You only see what you only see. You don't see what she sees.
Now, my guess is that you are 100% right about what an a$$ and poor choice of partner this guy is for your daughter. BUT it isn't your place to bad mouth him and if you continue to do so then you will only drive a wedge between you and your daughter and drive her closer to him.
Your role is to make sure your daughter knows she is priceless and worthy of a man who makes her feel safe and blissfully happy. This is about HER worth, not about her FI's value.
As for the RD, sure, if you want to continue enabling her poor choices then offer to pay for it all. But if you want to teach your daughter to take responsibility for her choices, then wish her luck with building her savings.
I apologize if I am coming off harsh. I sense that you are very caring and concerned. But you can't control her actions, you can only control your reactions. And it seems that those are REALLY important right now. Wishing you luck.
I agree with all of this. My parents were not at all thrilled with my ex-FI and if they brought it to my attention, I didn't want to hear it! He really did turn out to be a total and complete a$$ and not marrying him was the BEST thing I ever did. But your daughter has to learn that on her own. Focus on your relationship with her and helping her see that she deserves better than that. Build her up instead of cutting him down.
OP, I don't know if you're still reading this, but may I offer some perspective from the other side of the fence?
The relationship between my parents and I is.... complicated at best, and horrendous at worst. We used to be extremely close.
I have known FI for nearly ten years, and when we got engaged last November, my parents threw a shiitfit. They screamed at me for six hours, told FI he was NOT welcome in their home ever again, and basically disowned me. I was 28 but not living on my own for family reasons (before anyone chimes in on this, I know
. We did somewhat spring the engagement on them, but I have a master's degree, I had a stable job, and as I have said before I was 28 years old.
They were so extreme in their reaction that I moved out shortly after ( I had been planning it for months, but that was an excellent catalyst) and I have never been back to thier house since except for a short visit. Quite simply, I don't feel comfortable there, despite the fact that it was my home too. We couldn't have rational conversations about their concerns because they immediately went to an extremely emotional place.
FI is Catholic. I am not. He is also Australian. What my parents don't know is that he was perfectly willing to immigrate to the US before all this occurred, but now he won't even consider it- and I can't say that I blame him.
I am currently teaching in Korea and I am nearly 13 weeks pregnant. My parents know about the baby, but we have never discussed it in depth- which is a marked change from before, when we talked about EVERYTHING. They essentially forced me to make a choice, and I did. I speak to my parents maybe every third week. Doing it any more often is simply painful, because the conversations are just variations on the same old theme, and despite everything I still love them.
I see their perspective. They simply can't understand my FI's and my relationship. But, as PPs have said, I looked them square in the face and said, "You don't have to understand this. It isn't yours." Now I've amended that. They don't really have a choice to accept him or not at this point, because if they reject him they are also rejecting my child, and I won't have that. We're at an impasse. I'll do what's right for my family, and if they want to be part of it, they can. If not, then that's equally their choice. It kills me, though.
Keep loving her the same way you have. Tell her your concerns, but don't keep harping on them. Eventually she'll see the light. Even if she doesn't, though, you still want her in your life.