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Duggars Again (re: late miscarriage)
I just saw this article about the Duggars holding a memorial service for their miscarried baby girl, and at first, I was supremely confused by it--I guess I thought that her miscarriage was still a fairly early one (like first tri).
It's only now that I realize she miscarried at 19 weeks. Wow.
I am confused by the doctor telling her to go home and let the miscarriage play out naturally. Does that really happen when you miscarry that late? How horrifying.
Also, I think this is debatable: What are your feelings about holding a memorial service for a miscarried baby? (And I guess in this situation I would define "miscarried baby" as a baby under 24 weeks gestation--point of viability. In my mind, a baby beyond that is a whole different story.)
Re: Duggars Again (re: late miscarriage)
Yes, she went in for the 20 week a/s and found out the baby died. So terrible. I think if we were that far along and found out the baby had died we might do a small memorial service. I am not sure though.
I am also confused by the doctor telling her to go home and let nature take its course. I think typically labor is induced and the baby is delivered I would think this would be done in a hospital. I mean, this is awful, but she would give birth to a dead baby. Then do they have to call someone? Just awful questions. Ones that nobody should ever have to ask.
I have no idea either. When I thought it was an early (first tri) miscarriage, I immediately thought it was ridiculous, but since it's later--I just don't know how I feel about it.
And that's interesting about 20 vs. 24 weeks. I didn't know that, and don't know why it's defined that way, either.
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I have never heard about that distinction. I know that my miscarriage was labeled an abortion only at 9 weeks. The diagnosis for spotting issues (both times) has been a threatened abortion.
I did some googling and found that they classify anything under 20 weeks to be a miscarriage. Anything above that (at least according to the sources I read) says that 20+ weeks = stillborn.
God, I wonder if advanced maternal age is a risk factor for second trimester miscarriage.
Now that I know the details, this is awful. I honestly thought she had a "normal" miscarriage. Sad, yes, but a relatively common occurrence. This is different.
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I don't think I'd have a service at 20 weeks, but I also don't think I'd have a service for a full term still born either (besides maybe something minimal and very private for DH and I only), so it really has nothing to do the how far along I would be. I think if you were to have a service for a full term still born though that you would want one for a 20 week fetus too, I mean what's the difference but a few weeks development? It's still a baby. Just my thoughts. But honestly if it helps their grieving and closure then I think it's great to have a service at any gestational age.
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Agreed there. I think it's definitely a personal decision that needs to be made by each couple/family.
Opens up the Duggars to more scrutiny, though, as they are announcing/going through all of this in the public eye. I guess it makes sense since they share everything else with the world.
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My mother miscarried at what she says was about 4 months. She was told to go home as well.
Personally, I think people should do whatever they need to do in order to accept and mourn the loss. Especially at the stage where the Duggar mother was. I'm guessing she probably felt movement at that point, so I would feel the need to mourn more than say mine, which was only at 8 weeks. I know with my mother's, she already had a name picked out, but because of circumstances, she wasn't allowed or able to mourn the loss. From the stories she's told me about it, I still think of the baby between my brother and I as Stephen.
Neena Mae. 1/7/10
"A baby nursing at a mother's breast is an undeniable affirmation of our rootedness in nature." - David Suzuki
Apparently she had a classical incision with her last c-section (not bikini line). This puts you @ a much greater risk of uterine rupture if you're given drugs to induce labor rather than let it happen naturally.
Although I give having that many kids the side-eye (especially with her last one being a micro preemie) I cannot imagine having to "untell" in a later-term m/c. I feel sorry for them in a way; no mother should have to experience that.
And it's another reason why if/when I get pregnant I don't plan on plastering things all over FB much before I reach viability. Call me paranoid; I guess it's just 3.5 years of TTC talking.
Somehow, I read the entire article, but failed to see that one sentence. Makes sense now!
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My cousin's wife lost a baby midway through her pregnancy. They induced and she had to go through full on labor and give birth. They had a funeral with just immediate family. The baby was buried in a teeny tiny casket and has a tombstone. I'm not sure how many week she was but probably about the same. They may have found out at the anatomy scan.
Before I was born, my mother also lost a baby late. (Not sure how late; it was the result of a car accident). She also had to go through labor and birth and the baby was buried.
If I actually had to go through a labor type process, I would hold a memorial or funeral.
With my cousin's wife, I know there was an issue about the hospital not being able/willing to destroy the remains so they did the burial. Of course, I got all of the details from my aunt who tends towards drama so I'm not sure how much is true and how much isn't.
Doesn't this put her at greater risk of uterine rupture... PERIOD? I imagine that--in addition to having like 17+ previous pregnancies--would cause the risk level of her pregnancies to skyrocket.
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You guys use cytotec? The hosptials in Des Moines have stopped using it because there's not enough research on it and there is some research linking it to uterine rupture in VBACs. :-/ Of course, a lot of my information is coming from midwifery and natural birthing websites and journals. :-) I'm going to have to do some more reading.
I'm assuming that she will go to the hospital for the actual delivery of the baby, correct? So if there is bleeding or placenta retention it can be taken care of.
Neena Mae. 1/7/10
"A baby nursing at a mother's breast is an undeniable affirmation of our rootedness in nature." - David Suzuki
You guys use cytotec? The hosptials in Des Moines have stopped using it because there's not enough research on it and there is some research linking it to uterine rupture in VBACs. :-/ Of course, a lot of my information is coming from midwifery and natural birthing websites and journals. :-) I'm going to have to do some more reading.
I'm assuming that she will go to the hospital for the actual delivery of the baby, correct? So if there is bleeding or placenta retention it can be taken care of.
Neena Mae. 1/7/10
"A baby nursing at a mother's breast is an undeniable affirmation of our rootedness in nature." - David Suzuki
I think they told her to go home because although she was 19 weeks at the time of the scan, the baby had stopped growing sometime between 15-16 weeks (and because of the dangers with drugging her due to the c-section issue, like others have said.)
I don't think I can say what I'd do without being in the situation myself. Maybe she feels like it will be helpful for her smaller children? I obviously wish no one would ever have to go through this, but everyone grieves differently I guess.
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Speaking from experience, any loss is traumatic and devastating. On the pregnancy loss board, there was a wide range of ways people grieved. When I was there, one family wrote a message to their unborn child on a balloon and released balloons. If I had a full term still born, I would certainly have a memorial service for my close family. I'm not sure about a 2nd trimester loss.
Regarding miscarriage and abortion terminology, correct usage in the OB community is abortion, whether it is threatened, spontaneous, missed, or therapeutic. However, I still don't classify my miscarriage as an abortion because I didn't make an active decision to end the baby's life. It's all terminology.
Jennrs, my local hospital uses cytotec as well.
We obviously chose to have a memorial service for our full-term stillborn baby. There was never any question. I understand having a service for any baby over 20 weeks where it is considered a stillbirth and you had to go through labor and delivery. We would not have a service after a miscarriage. It's a personal decision. I truly believe you should do whatever helps you grieve best.
I agree, LoveofJoe, I think grief is a very personal experience and that everyone handles it differently. There is no one way to grieve any loss, and I respect the decision made by the Duggars (and anyone else) for that reason alone.
Angie, I was thinking about you when I was thinking about all of this earlier today. I absolutely would've made the same decision if I was in your position.
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