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Question for you PhD folk - "Dr" snobbery
I've been in contact with a guy in the last few days, for work. We're interested in using some of his material for a course we're putting together and I was asked to be the contact in terms of coordinating permission and payment with him.
The first round of emails was very polite on both sides. I responded today to let him know how our courses are usually run, and because we need a certain number of students to attend before we guarantee a course to run, we may not order copies of his material until the course starts in April. I also asked if we had permission ro make copies in-house, since his material is only online, on a public website. Here's the response I got (btw, I addressed him as Mr. so and so in my last email):
I earned a Ph.D. in physics in 1977 after ten years of full time study at accredited universities, and then supervised and approved candidates for advanced degrees during ten years as a professor. I am properly addressed as "Dr. so and so".
If you print N copies, in-house or elsewhere, then you owe me N times $4 royalties, regardless of the number of students and regardless of the number of copies distributed to anyone.
Do people really get that up-in-arms if they're not properly cited as someone who got their doctorate? Also... we could have copied and pasted your shiit into a word doc and you wouldn't get any royalties at all. So be thankful we're doing the ethical thing. This guy is cracking me up.
Re: Question for you PhD folk - "Dr" snobbery
Yes. Yes, they do. As someone who lives in a college town, I have to say that it's pretty common for their panties to get all bunched over this. At this point, I pretty much refer to anyone associated with the local university as Dr. and let them correct/ignore me if I'm wrong.
If it bothered him that much and he weren't a twat, he could've just signed an e-mail "Dr. Not a Twat" enough times for you to notice or dropped in some causal mention of it and been done with it.
He totally sounds like an a$$--that "call-out" reeks of insecurity (which plagues most academics, I've found). I've been in a similar spot, writing to someone when I'm not sure if they have a PhD, and no one has ever been that rude!
But, on the flip side . . . not to defend the coot . . . but I've been personally offended at misuse of title stuff recently. Like, students who address me in emails as "Ms. Smock'sLastName" or even "Ms. Smock'sFirst Name." Uh, no. I'm Dr. or Prof. Smock. Get it right or I will scratch off your face. But honestly, it's because I'm a young female professor and every time it's happened it's with a male undergrad, so I interpret it as somewhat of a slight on my authority.
So, you're right, the coot is a coot, and it's very nice that you guys are paying him for the content.
Even if I had a PhD, I still wouldn't be that stuck up as to replying so rudely. What a jagoff. I'd be inclined to tell him that with his stuck up snobbery regarding being addressed, I'm no longer going to use his material, so he and his PhD can kiss his royalties goodbye. But I'm a biitch like that and don't have time for rude crap.
I could be way off base, but I don't care how hard I'd worked in school to get a PhD. I still don't think I'd be that big of an azzhole to respond to a potential client like that. What a jerk.
I was curious what your take on this would be, since you are Dr. Smock. Glad to see you agree that he was a prick with his response. And I get where you're coming from when it comes to your students.
I always err on the side of caution and address everyone in an upper academic setting as "Dr." I've had a few laugh and correct me, but I've never had anyone get offended.
Yeah, I think my situation is not really comparable, but it at least explains why some PhDs can be sensitive about titles!
I also got pissed when MIL improperly addressed a card to us--if the lady is a doctor and the man is not, her name gets to go first! Instead, I was (weeps) "Mr. and Dr. MrSmock'sFirst-and-last." HE'S NOT THE DOCTOR, I AM!!!!!
lol
I get that, smock.
It irks me because I didn't know and wasn't aware of his degree status, his work history, his teaching experience, etc. He didn't sign his emails dr. so and so... he didn't sign them at all. He called me ms. gaultry so I responded with a greeting in kind.
I think his issue is less with the non-dr title and more with the fact that I didn't immediately say "WE ARE ORDERING 1000 COPIES OF YOUR ONLINE DOCUMENT, HERE'S OUR MONEH". So he's pist.
I think his response was uncalled for. I would have probably just signed my name "Dr. AK" and hoped the person picked up on it.
When I was teaching at a university, I almost always was referred to as "Dr. AK" by non-faculty -- with staff I'd usually say, "Please call me FirstName, as I have not yet earned a doctorate."
When I worked on staff at a big research university, I would call faculty Dr until the asked me to do differently (which most did -- I was on a first name basis with almost all the faculty I worked with).
Now I am at an art college and we are very casual here. I call people by their first name from the get go.
I think unless you are in a super casual environment, you go with Dr until you are told differently.
I've found that most people, sign things they send with how they feel they should be addressed. I'm inclined to say it's his fault for being an a*hole and not signing his emails.
And thanks Dr. Smock. I always wondered about that. I had a feeling that what I was doing was incorrect.
I used to go Mr. fn, and Dr. fn , ln.
People who are diicks or who are egotistical do pull that BS. Obviously, this guy is a diick. Probably also egotistical. My husband has a PhD and I don't know of anyone who has ever addressed him as Dr. He no longer teaches, and his business cards say, "Mr. John Smith, PhD" or something. That's actually his prefered form of address. So even if you KNEW that guy had a PhD, you wouldn't necessarily know he wanted to go by Dr.
My stepfather, on the other hand, does prefer to go as doctor. He and the local newspaper have gotten into it because their style manual dictates that they only use Dr. for MDs (which is also the social "rule"), so they won't address him as Dr. Robert Jones in the newspaper, and use Mr. Robert Jones instead. But he has other issues with that paper that go beyond that. He's also egotistical, but not a diick. He wouldn't write something like that.
And ditto whoever said that academics tend to be insecure. Not Smock, I'm sure, but I think she could probably tell stories of BSC academics.
40/112
Was his reply over the top? Sure.
But looking at it from his perspective, you supposedly "know" who he is as you want to use his material. It's not so far fetched to assume you would have known he's a Dr. I'm just making an assumption, but if his stuff is on-line, isn't his name listed as "Dr" somewhere?
If he's this uppity about it - I really can't imagine it wouldn't be.
ANd if he didn't correct you (although he absolutely could have been nicer about it), you may have moved forward referencing him w/o his correct title.
I don't think he's off base wanting to make sure that happens.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
On his website, he's listed as an attorney. I suppose I could have written dear Mr blahblah, JD.
I get why he would want to be addressed properly...however, he 1. Did not use proper tone in his previous emails that indicated a formal response was required to his non-formal reply and 2. I'm not a friggin' mind reader if his information is not on his main website page, signature, farewell moniker or otherwise staring me in the face. He did it as a power trip, pure and simple. How dare I, as a middle-man laison, not know every single detail about him? wah wah.
Gault, that's the other ridiculous thing about the situation. If the guy is now an attorney and isn't listed as Dr. on his website, how the shits are you supposed to know that's his title? Are you supposed to look up the CV of everyone you might randomly email, or check ProQuest to see if they've written a dissertation?
Pretty please write back to him and address him as All Might Doctor of Physics, Mr. So and So, JD.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Well, if you go off that, you better look up if he's passed a bar or not. After passing a bar, he'd be Mr. BlahBlah, Esq. and would be offended by your JD.
I have run into a few people like this guy and in my experience the ones who get nasty about it like this are usually incredibly insecure and egotistical. I can recall one superintendent in particular I used to work with who made everyone address him as "Dr. X" at all times (including once correcting pne of his own bosses on the school board in public) and he was a huge jerk. I used to describe him as having an ego the size of a hot-air balloon that could be popped with the prick of a sewing needle.He always addressed me as "Miss."
BFP #4 It's a BOY!
CP: July 2011
BFP #3: 11/3/2011 M/C 12/12/11
We miss you and love you always, little firecrackers!
I'm an MD and I don't give a rat's @$$ if someone refers to me as "Dr" in an email; in fact, I'd kinda prefer they use my first name. And, like others said, if he did care so much that he was rude in correcting you, he should be using John Smith, Ph.D. in his email signature.
Speaking of titles, one of the social workers in the hospital where I work had arranged a meeting with the family of one of our shared patients. The patient's husband showed up, as did her BIL, "Dr Smith." The social worker immediately called me to join her for the meeting, thinking BIL would have all sorts of medical questions. When I arrived and he introduced himself, I asked what specialty he practiced. His answer: "Oh, I'm a doctor of education." Talk about (inappropriately) flaunting a title...
Our local newspaper and the former superintendent of schools use to have a comically antagonistic relationship that pretty much hinged on the newspaper refusing to use the "Dr." title when referencing her in stories. There's some rule in journalism that Dr. means medical doctor and First Last, PhD is to be used in all other instances. It was all so headdesk.
Yeah, that's the rule in AP Style and it bugs the ever living sh!t out of some people. I'm a journalist and I've covered K-12 and higher education for newspapers for six years and I've dealt with it a few times. You're not in southwest Ohio, are you?
In my experience though, if someone were that combative about their title, they were a jerk about pretty much everything else too. I remember one particularly lovely superintendent who actually threw a stapler at a colleague.
On one hand I can appreciate that when you've worked hard for a title, you want that work recognized. But I can't get behind acting like a d!ck about it.
BFP #4 It's a BOY!
CP: July 2011
BFP #3: 11/3/2011 M/C 12/12/11
We miss you and love you always, little firecrackers!
Lurker here. But I did not know this, so thanks!!!
I used to work at a college and had something similar happen. I called one of the Profs "Mr. stickupass" instead of "Dr. Stickupass". He stated something similar to what your guy said "I worked hard for my doctorate, in 1974 after blah blah blah..." I let him finish and then said "wow, that was a long time ago, before I was even born. Do you have to take refresher courses to keep your title?"
He huffed off to tell the Dean. Later on, the Dean came up to me to tell me the Prof had tattled on me. The Dean made a point to laugh it off because some of the "old schoolers" were stuck in their ways. He also said my comeback was great.