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Sleep-training, CIO, etc.
Ok, I don't want to start a debate - I know this topic can get crazy heated.
What I DO want to know is - if you DIDN'T do any type of sleep training, CIO, etc. did your LO end up having sleep issues when they got to toddler-age?
If you DID do sleep training, CIO, Ferber, something other than run and hold your baby every time they so much as made a peep - was your toddler an awesome sleeper?
I don't really let DD cry for more than the 10 seconds it takes me to get to her room. She's just a baby and she wants to be held, and she wants her mommy, etc. blah blah blah. I was totally fine with our approach, but our pedi - who I love, love love, told DH at Helen's 9 mo. appt last week, that if we keep doing what we're doing, she'll but up out of bed all the time when she's a toddler. He says he has parents of toddlers who are just desperate to get their kids to stay in bed. So, now DH is kind of thinking we should try some type of sleep training. I was pretty much adamantly against it.... but don't want to set us up for disaster in 6-12 months or so. I also kind of think that all toddlers get out of bed at night... regardless of the sleep training they had as infants.... DH told me to ask my nestie friends - smart guy, that DH! 
TIA!!!!
Re: Sleep-training, CIO, etc.
We did not do CIO or really sleep train. I did follow the No Cry Sleep Solution book as we approached a year and then after she was a year old I followed this as much as it applied: http://drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html. Dr. Gordon's approach was my favorite, and I think it is what ultimately got T to sleep through the night AT THIRTEEN MONTHS.
These days we don't have any issues with keeping her in bed. Not too long after her 2nd birthday we had some serious issues getting her to go to bed (demonic, head spinnin screaming, banging, having to block the door from the inside to keep her in her room), but that was short lived, and that had nothing to do with how she was or wasn't "trained" as a baby. Now she doesn't get out of her toddler bed until the morning, and half of the time she still waits in bed for me to come get her. We keep her door open with a gate on her door to keep her from roaming the house at night.
As someone who was also very much against CIO and "training", I'd suggest looking into the NCSS, but I don't think there's any proof that your doctor is right. I just think he hears about it more than the kids who don't get out of bed. I'm sure just as many of those kids were not subjected to CIO or training.
- Paula Deen to 104.1 KRBE's Producer Eric 9/17/2011
we did ferber, and it was much harder for me than it was for dh. we basically did it in stages, letting her cry a little more each time before going in to check on her. when we did go in, it was more to talk to her, tuck her back in, etc. dh was pretty good about not picking her up every time - me, not so much.
it didn't take long if i remember correctly, but i do remember hating the process.
DS was still waking to nurse about twice a night at 11 months. I felt it was fine to try some sort of sleep training at that point, and I knew I needed to night-wean before we started anything, so that's just what I started with. The first couple nights he still woke and wanted to nurse, but I just rocked him back to sleep (he had a pacifier as well) and within just a few days he was STTN on his own.
I rocked him to sleep up until about 11-12 months, and then one night he and I were in the glider and I was trying to get him to lay down and he pointed to his crib. So I put him down and he went to sleep on his own. I usually let him fuss for a few minutes, but he never really needed anything else. I had a very easy transition with him.
We did Ferber for nap training and it worked wonders when she was younger. We sometimes have regressions though with naps and the only thing that works now is straight CIO.
It is a hard decision. Maddie pretty much spent her first 6 months of life doing nothing but screaming anyways so I was pretty immune to it by the time we did any sort of sleep training. Once she became better rested she also became happier, so I have no regrets.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
DS was a horrible sleeper in the beginning. To be fair, he was a reflux baby, always had either a sinus infection or ear infections. DH and I didn't sleep the entire first year, DS was miserable as well. At 11 months DS had his adenoids removed and ear tubes put in. Our pediatrician was fine with us staring sleep training at 12 months since there was now no reason for DS to be waking up 3 or 4 times a night.
We did the CIO method, gasp I know. First we tried the Ferber method. That's was a big fail. DS actually got more upset at night since one of us would enter the room. So after about a week, we decided to do CIO, but would not let him cry for more than 15 minutes. The first two night he cried about 20 minutes, it was HARD to not go in and comfort him, DH had to. I was crying because DS was crying. The third night wasn't as bad, it was a cry but lasted about 10 minutes. After a few more nights of him just whimpering he would no longer cry. Took us just under two weeks before he was going into his bed awake and STTN.
DS is 21 months now and he naps and goes to bed with no issues. Sometimes he will even walk over to his door and say bed if he is really tired. We do our nightly routine and read our books and he goes to bed awake. Within 10 minutes he is out. He actually enjoys his crib. In the mornings he wants to sit in it and play with his lovey or read a book.
I know CIO is pretty flammable, but this is the method we chose together and stuck with it. I'm not going to judge the person next to me whose child sleeps in bed with the parents, it's their decision and as long as the child is loved who cares. Simple as that. Good luck with whatever you do!
We did not sleep train. DS started sleeping through the night on his own around 3 - 4 months. He did have major sleep regressions as a toddler. At one point we dragged a recliner into his room to lay with him in hopes of getting him to sleep more. I think they were all related to developmental periods, such as language explosions. He's almost 5 now and sleeps like a rock 11ish hours a night. Naps were never a problem.
DD took longer to sleep through the night, 9 months, but she has had no sleep regressions. At almost 3 it is extremely rare for her to wake in the night. Only when she's sick.
We did a few things to help with sleep, like establish bedtimes at 3 months, no getting out of the bedroom at night, etc. But mostly we followed our kids cues and let them learn to sleep on their own.
We did not do any type of sleep training and for the first 18 months, DD was a horrible sleeper.
For the first 6 months, DD was waking up multiple times through the night. After that she woke up at least once every night until she was 18 months old. Putting her to sleep was awful. I had to rock her for ~30 minutes before I could put her down. She had to be completely out. If she woke up, we would have to continue rocking. Same thing when she woke up in the middle of the night. There were times when I was up with her for 3-4 hours straight just because she didn't want to be put back down in the crib.
Then around 18 months things got SO much easier. We have a routine that she follows and will go down without a fight. I will give her a "bedtime warning" about 10 minutes before bed time. She will continue playing and then when I say, "bed time" she comes in to change her diaper and brush her teeth. We grab her stuffed animal and head upstairs. She gives daddy a kiss, puts her animal in the crib, takes a sip of water, gives me a kiss and then lays down. I turn off the light, she asks for one more hug and then I shut the door. After I leave, she talks to her animal for a few minutes and then goes to sleep. Although, I still have her in the crib (not a toddler bed) but I don't think she will give me any problems when we switch. I haven't changed it because she's an "all over the crib" sleeper and I'm scared she might fall out of the bed.
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L was generally an awesome sleeper overnight early on but always a terrible napper. When we moved, it all went to hell. We read Solving Your Child's Sleep Problems (by Ferber) and ended up doing the progressive waiting for bed times and naps.
We had tried CIO twice before that and wimped out. After the 4th/5th night, naps and bedtimes have been a breeze for a year, 9pm-8am. We actually just had to retrain L - 2 nights with the ILs and she was broken. She has gone back to normal nights but naps are still a nightmare. Maybe tomorrow...
We have not done any sleep training with either kid. DD (4.5yo) was not a great sleeper, we coslept and nursed until 17mo and then she moved to a twin bed. She did not get out of bed on her own at all until she was over 3yo. She just stayed there until we got her. She would wake about once a night until she was 2. Since 2.5yo she goes to bed fairly easily with a routine and rarely wakes at night. She only gets out of bed now if it is morning or if she is sick/had an accident/etc, not just random getting up to get in bed with us.
DS (26mo) is a better sleeper than DD was. He STTN at only a few months old. Of course that didn't last, but he never woke up as much as DD. He coslept until 19mo, and sleeps about 9 hours straight now. (Neither of mine has ever slept 11hours, 9-10 is their norm). He does not get out of bed in the middle of the night either - if he wakes he calls for us or cries.
I personally don't believe that babies cry for no reason. They cry because they have a need, even if that need is to be comforted and held. So I have always responded to their cries. Now that I think about it, I wonder if my kids stay in bed because they know I'll come. No need to go looking for me if they can just stay there and holler for me. If they are having a bad night, one of us will get in that kid's twin bed with them rather than bring them to our bed.
I was given two completely different sleepers. Amelia needed TONS of sleep, like a 3-4 hour nap and 12-15 hours at night, she was a BIG time sleeper. Heck, she still sleeps 12 hours at night and most days she'll take a 2-3 hour nap... she's 4.
We sleep trained her when she was 5-6 months old. I knew she didn't need to nurse at night because I was cluster feeding her in the evenings and introducing solids. She wasn't waking at night, she was giving us trouble going to sleep... and she did until she was 3, heck, she still does sometimes. So, we tried a modified Ferber method with her. The first two days were difficult, but after that she would fuss for 2 minutes at nap/bed time and we wouldn't see her until the morning/the end of a good nap.
Juliet on the other hand is the worst sleeper! It's easy to wake her, she'll never fall asleep in my arms and fights sleep with everything she has (she has a big sis to keep up with). That being said, we worked REALLY hard to stress the term "night-night" very early with her... we're talking since she was born. We would talk about going night-night and she picked upon the concept so much earlier than Amelia and uses the term when she's tired and has for a while (she's 18 months now). Sleep training doesn't really work for her, what does work is letting her think it's her idea and having a routine, letting her gather her lovies up, say night-night and walk to her room. We rock for a minute, sing a few songs and she goes down usually without a fight.
I do not go into her room when she fusses a bit, I wait, listen to the cry and figure out what's wrong. If I know that she's teething I will go in with gel/tabs or even Advil if it's appropriate, but not until she's fully awake and aware of what's wrong. I can also tell her cry/movements when she's gassy. I'll go in and rub her tummy do bicycles and rock her a bit to relax her back to sleep. If I went in every time she let out a little whimper or a cry I'd never sleep and I'd be pretty miserable.
So, I guess what your pedi is saying is that you need to establish some boundaries with your DD, perhaps a routine. That doesn't necessarily mean sleep training, but it might. Go slowly, try one thing and if it doesn't work modify it or try something else. What worked for one of my kids didn't work for the other and obviously what worked for each of us won't work for you.
Good luck!
This was our issue as well, Cooper goes to bed just fine, we have had a super solid bed time routine all along,we put him down awake since he was about 10 months old, etc, but he's always woken multiple times per night. Currently he's great, he sttn (8:30 to 7:30) about 95% of the time. I don't think he's old enough for me to say how he is over all as a toddler though, he's not in a big bed yet....
I'm not sure whether to say we sleep trained or not, we tried a lot of methods, a lot of times and while a number of them worked for getting him to go back to sleep, none of them had any great effect on the number of times he woke up. Honestly I couldn't do Ferber, we tried for about 3 days. He would eventually cry down, but he'd wake up sooner after crying to sleep than he normally did if we put him back down the regular way. I wasn't functional after day 3, and there was no sign of improvement. His sleep was actually getting worse because it made him anxious at bedtime, so our formerly easy putting to bed method was ruined for awhile. I quit that and went back to my made-up combination of sleep lady shuffle and Pantley methods. He really started improving around 18 months but I don't think the credit is mine, I think he just finally got there developmentally.
Now, here is my rant about all the sleep gurus and pediatricians and the rigidity of their recommendations regarding sleep... For EVERY other developmental thing the mantra is "kids are all different, they do things in their own time." Kid's a late walker/talker/eater/cup drinker/etc everyone says "don't worry he'll do it in his own time." It's accepted that some kids are late potty trainers, some are late talkers, some are not very good at gross motor (or fine motor) skills. "They're all different" we repeat it over and over EXCEPT when it comes to sleep. It's ridiculous. Do adults all sleep the same amount/way? No. So why should kids? Some are just going to be "late" to sttn, some are going to wake up a lot, some have more trouble going to sleep, some fall asleep super easily, the same is true for adults too. If all babies/children slept easily and exactly the way we're told they are "supposed to" there wouldn't be big bucks to be made in the child sleep industry.
So, my advice is, cut yourself a break, you can't control how well your child sleeps any more than you can make her be an early talker. You can set the stage for healthy sleep habits (and a good vocab) and provide her with all the necessary tools, but SHE has to do the development.
totally agree with suzi g. if it doesn't feel right to let your child cry cry cry, go with your gut and comfort her. i don't have personal experience with a small toddler, but i spend half my life talking to moms about their kids' habits.
the one constant is that every parent knows her child the best.
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C wasn't much of a crier - he has been a great sleeper, but the times he did need to cry, we let him. I could probably count on one hand the number of times we had to let him cry for more than 2-3 min before he fell asleep.
I can tell the difference in his cries when something is seriously wrong - for that, I would go in and either hold him or pat his back.
As a 2 yo, he stays in bed, but he also is pretty good about putting himself to bed at night. That is, until this past week and right now we're in sleeping hell. He is terrified of sleeping alone. I'm at a loss as to what caused this, but it is real, pure, 100% fear. Driving me crazy.
This!!! What the heck is going on?????
To answer the OP, Landon was always a great sleeper and started STTN at 3 months old. He never had to cry it out and I would go check on him when/if he was. He slept 12-14 hours a night and then took a 3-4 hour nap.
I just moved him to a toddler bed about a month ago because he is such a crazy sleeper I was so afraid he was going to fall out of bed. I am COMPLETELY regretting it now! All of a sudden he is afraid to be alone, wants the door open, wants his back patted. He gets out of bed about 4 or 5 times before he finally stays in and falls asleep. And then most nights he will end up on the floor in the bedroom.
I have no adivce but, follow your gut!
I agree with follow your gut. I did CIO but the way I understood it (and used it) was at bedtime, not middle of the night wake ups. When I put her to bed after her routine (bath, book, bedtime) I knew she was dry, fed and content. We would rock for one song then I'd lay her down. If she cried I knew she had what she needed and could settle herself. It took 3 nights of tears (and each night was better then the previous). But if she cried in the middle of the night I knew she needed something, usually it was just a nippie. I'd listen for a minute and if she still cried I'd see what else it was that she needed.
She was a pretty good sleeper by 3 months, she's 5 and still takes a 2-3 hour nap. I think she was a decent sleeper but I do think our routines and "sleep training" reinforced that. I don't think it's what keeps her taking naps at 5, I think she's a kid like her parents that need sleep. Both DH and I were champ sleepers.
we didn't do any sort of sleep training with either girl and Eliza started STTN at 6 weeks, Marion at 9 months. Eliza is a great sleeper, put down awake, self soothes (by the time I make it to her door, she's back asleep already), naps fairly well, etc.
Marion is the sleeper from hell. She sucks at sleeping and there are times when I really wanted to do her harm because sleep was such an issue. At Thanksgiving though, we talked to Josh's dad and turns out, Marion sleeps exactly like he does. They just don't need as much sleep as most people and it can take an hour or two for them to fall asleep at night. At age 3, Marion naps for about 30 minutes a day the three days she's at school, but won't nap at home. She sleeps for about 8 or 9 hours at night, usually from 8:30 to about 5:30 or 6:00. There's nothing we could have done to make her a better sleeper, she's just wired that way.
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We read the Sleep Lady books, and followed our guts. (We also read Sears.)
First Child/Newb Parents/CIO a Bit
As an infant, we started by being ever-present. It became too much at around 6 mos. We started letting him cry more.
As a slightly older baby, we started him on an elaborate calm-down routine. It developed into books, songs, rocking until sleepy, in crib with music. He still cried if he wasn't asleep after all that.
As a toddler, he would not sleep without the full routine. He would get out of bed. What 2.5 year old won't? I'd like to meet that person.
Even as a child (almost 5), he requires a book and a few songs to be comfortable. He is a great sleeper; he only wakes up if he wets the bed. He goes to bed, and stays in bed almost all the time.
I think we throttled the CIO with the attachment parenting to suit him and us in the end. Listening to him cry ever is hard, but we didn't answer every time. We did create a routine that suited us and included him self-soothing at a point.
Second Child/Crying Not as Big a Deal for Us
I read on a blog once that there are children who wind up with CIO, and those who need a little crying release to sleep. The latter is our second.
I can hold him and he'll cry just a little before sleeping. He seems to let out a last little emotional energy and then conks out. There is no way around a few tears with him.
Lately, I have them in one room. I sing my whole series of songs. The little one is finally figuring out that he can sleep before I finish. If he doesn't fall asleep, he'll fuss for a couple of minutes and then he's out. He sleeps all night without issue.
He remains in a crib, because he wouldn't stay in a bed. Soon. It will be a fight.
**When we're away with them, my younger (2) must sleep with me the first night. He has an overwhelming need to know I'm there. He wakes up every hour to pat my face, cry a little, look me in the eye, and settle back down. It is brutal, but I know it is what is required. Otherwise, he'll just scream forever. I've learned to distinguish sleepy to settling down crying from I'm scared and really, really need you crying.
Trust yourself. There really is middle ground. I think if you let the baby cry to sleep to save yourself from losing it, you will not harm the child. If you need to hold your child to save yourself from losing it, that's cool too.
Sears does expect a lot out of people in his books (take out loans to quit your job?) -- but he makes a good point about forging your own relationship with a solid eye on the needs of your child to be attached to you. I like to balance that with a little less attachment for getting to sleep, but that's me and my kids are OK with it. If either of us were different people, the solution would be different.
Your doc is just one more opinion in a sea of them; you don't have to disagree or agree with her to just do your own thing. Your family will run as it should when you do as you feel is right and what fits your situation in most cases.
Having two has really shown how true it is that you parent the child you're given. These two boys require different things. I like that I've been able to have both of them show me that.
I think it depends on your kid.
We didn't do any "training" but occassionally I tried it out of desperation since he didn't sleep through the night until EIGHTEEN MONTHS.
When we transisitoned to a big boy bed naps were tough. He kept getting out of bed each SECOND I put him in. I tried just keep putting him back in bed thing but he wouls be scremaing the whole time and just hop right back out. then I was so frustrated I threatened a spanking. Not my best mommy moment but it didn't work and I wan't prepeared to follow through with that. Seriously, not my best moment. Then I just rocked him and sang again and he went down easily. :bangs head: Took like three hours to get him down each day. He would sleep for maybe 45 minutes and up again. This lasted about two weeks. Now he is a super sleeper in his big boy bed.
then after getting pregnant I had to spent the night at about 20 weeks in the hospital. He apparently took that time to stop being potty traind AND knwing how to sleep in his own bed. We put him back in a pack n play until just a couple weeks ago AFTER Evie was born. :bangs head:
So, his sleep has been totally on his terms and not ours. Frustrating.