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Buying a house with known 'issues' - would you?
So my hubby and I went to a few more open houses this past weekend - both houses need work, but we both are doing this with the expectation that no house we wind up with will be 'perfect'. At the same time, I would prefer to buy something where we can move right in and then do any work and updating over time. Because let's face it, I think most people when they buy a home want to put their own little 'stamp' on it to make it their own.
Anyway, the first house we looked at was a good size and could be a nice home, but I feel like we would be completely in over our heads if we were to buy it. My hubby is just looking at the cheap price and the fact that the realtor, more than once, told us that the owner was 'very VERY negotiable'.
House needs new kitchen really bad, then there are 2 full bathrooms, one of which was built as a handicap bathroom with massive walk in shower - and that bathroom is literally right in the kitchen. You can see where they put the walls up in order to install this bathroom. The upstairs bathroom would need to be completely gutted and the realtor said the tub has plumbing problems. We actually saw the water stain in the ceiling in the dining room - I assume that's from the plumbing problem. Oh, and then there's the issue of the house being treated for termites, which for me is a big red flag on top of all the other red flags. Crazy considering from the outside, the house is beautiful and would be even more beautiful once you do all of the work required. House does have a new(er) roof and also heating system, but I don't consider it to be move in ready at all with the other issues.
I don't know what it is but my hubby seems to be stuck on this house. I'm actually kind of surprised because he usually picks apart any house we've seen thus far for this kind of stuff. There have been houses that I've liked and seen past the issues that he just completely is against - then when I sit back and really think about it, I realize he's right. He asked me for the link to this particular house though, presumably to show it to his parents (a problem in itself lol) and I'm really just trying to convince him that this would be a bad move. Like I said, I don't mind doing work to any house, but I want it to be something that we wouldn't have to address immediately before we could even live in there. I do think he will see the light, but I'm just surprised that he's still stuck on this house.
What do you guys think? Would you consider a house like this knowing it has this many issues? Or do you think it's better to spend an extra 20k on a house if it would mean not having to deal with these immediate headaches?
Re: Buying a house with known 'issues' - would you?
We would have to hire people to do the work and it would probably cost a fortune, so no I wouldn't. Not sure whether or not we'd consider it if we could do the work ourselves.
I would ask him to explain to you why he likes this particular home so much. Other than 'because it has potential' because you either don't see the potential or you don't think it's worth the effort or don't know where you'll find the money to fix the number of things that need to be done now. Your idea of a fixer upper was "needs new paint, floors, kitchen is from the 80s - usable but ugly wood or mismatched appliances" not water stains, leaks, sloppy renos and unusable bathrooms.
i do think if one person isn't sold on the house though it's off the table for discussion. Just is. You get veto power (and so does he) because you will likely live there for a long time. And mortgage payments are expensive.
As for the mess, I would guess in this house they figured there's so much wrong that a dirty bathroom is the least of potential buyer's concerns. So I'd be worried about what you can't see.
We bought a house knowing it needed a lot of work (we gutted the kitchen 3 hours after we closed but before we moved in). We lived there for probably 3 months without a functioning kitchen and it was hard. We are experienced homeowners and DH is the most handy person ever but it was exhausting. During the first few weeks of owning it we worked full time jobs then went tothe house and worked until 2 am and went to sleep until the next day. Once we moved in it was much of the same thing... Working til midnight nearly every night and all weekend long. If you plan on hiring it out, it will be expensive. Kitchens and baths are the most expensive things to renovate. Do you have the cash to do the renovations or do you plan to get some financing? Banks are more strict now about lending and renovation loans can be complicated, expensive and could require you to have bids from contractors to do the work within a timeline.
We did all the work ourselves and in cash. We thought we had a realistic budget but once you open up walls, you find problems. I would be concerned about the damage to the floors, floor joist, ceiling, drywall and possibly mold from the upstairs bathroom.
I agree with you that if you think you'd be over your head, it's not a good idea. It's not as easy as it looks like on hgtv.
I'm agreeing with your husband. But I'm fortunate to have the resources to easily and cheaply fix just about anything house related. There's nothing that I can't have done at cost + beer and pizza.
H and I are both handy, I know a well driller, my dad is a general contractor, my dad and brother own a plumbing and electrical business, a brother-in-law owns an HVAC company, a family friend owns an excavation company, an uncle does septic stuff, a friend of H's is a mason, another friend is a roofer, another brother is a land surveyor.
Even without all of those connections, I'd consider it. I'm brave. Get some good inspections. I mean in addition to the general inspection. Have a plumbing inspector come out, get a pest inspector out there, etc.
The house being actively treated for termites is actually a good sign. Pest problems are extremely common in houses. You need to worry when there is no active treatment, but active pests.
The dirtiness... eh. You say there's a handicap accessible bathroom. Maybe their hands are full and they don't have the time. I had a grandfather who had multiple strokes and was paralyzed (only had use of one arm). He certainly couldn't clean up after himself, my grandmother worked, my mom and all of my aunts and uncles worked and had their own families to tend to, so between their lives and taking my grandfather to appointments, no one had time to clean. Everyone was fed and medicated, but the cleaning went on the back-burner.
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
I agree with PPs -- it sounds like you need to define better how much 'work' you're willing to do to a house. The house we just bought, it had zero actual problems, but I wanted to redo most of the floors and de-wallpaper and paint (in other words, cosmetic changes). That, to me, was as much 'fixing up' as I wanted to do.
(And for the record, the inspection found previous (inactive) untreated termite damage in one area of the house, and the seller agreed to have the house treated for termites. At least in my area of the country, termite damage -- whether active or inactive as mine was -- is not a big deal and is going to happen to most houses at some time or another.)
As for the dirty bathroom, I was willing to overlook things in houses that weren't 100% up to my standards, because I know how life is. But if I saw something that was obviously neglected where they hadn't even bothered to clean at all in quite some time ... I'd wonder how many other things they neglected around the house, you know?
Lastly, H and I had to be in complete 100% agreement on the house before we bought it. We both loved this house and it was the only one we offered on -- and I still got the jitters just before we closed, because it's a big deal to buy a house and there are a lot of unknowns even WITH an inspection. If I'd been unsure about the house to begin with ... that would've been awful to go through.
See - the work I'd be willing to do initiallly would be mostly cosmetic stuff. And maybe a little more, but it would really depend. I am fairly handy - not as handy as the PP with the awesome connections, but I don't mind getting my hands dirty. I've done it before in some of the apartments I've rented and that's never been an problem for me.
The thing is, I expect to find a house that is not going to be 100% perfect/clean/etc, and I am willing to look past a lot of that, but I would like to at least be able to move into the house and do renovations over time. I don't expect granite counters, stainless steel appliances, new cabitnets etc - but with this house, I'm not even talking about a few outdated cabinets/appliances that can easily be replaced down the road - the entire kitchen needs to be redone before I could even use it. And the same applies with the bathrooms too. The one in the upstairs with the plumbing problem, it wasn't just a little bit dirty, which I can get past....I'm not sure what was going on with the tub, but that tub needs to be ripped out and replaced entirely. My dad is a union guy, so I do know about some things to look out for - and when I'm not sure, I just call him and ask. But without him seeing for himself, it's kind of hard to really tell if something is easy fix or not. If he lived close to us, he'd probably come to check out some of these houses and be able to point stuff out to us.
Does your H realize the magnitude of the repairs that need to be done? Or is he only seeing the awesome price tag and ignoring the rest? Sit down with him and have a serious conversation.
you: The kitchen and bathroom are non-functioning. Meaning, we could buy this house but there's no bathroom and no kitchen. There is nowhere to poop and nowhere to make toast. What is your plan if we put an offer on this house? Are we going to pay rent and the mortgage while we gut the bathroom and kitchen? Do you know how much money that will take? Are we taking off work to get this done? Hiring it out? What happens if we find major structural problems because of the bathroom problems?
He's probably blinded by the awesome, unheard of price and isn't comprehending that there are no basic necessities in the house.
You don't need your dad though. It'll cost a little, but you can get multiple inspectors and they'll tell you what you need to know. Get a plumbing inspector, electrical inspector, and a structural inspector, and between the three of those any major, money-draining issues should be found.
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
We have done the following to our house: New roof, garage door, new exterior doors, insulation, new furnace, new driveway, bathroom and kitchen renovation, 14 new triple pane windows, before we even started painting and decorating (more furniture and windowtreatments). Currently we are renoating the basement down to the cement block - bedroom, family room, bathroom, laundry/storeage/utility room. The workshop area will stay the same.
So for us - it was definitely worth it. We waited 4 years to find this house (our 2nd) to come on the market - it was in our ideal location, size, price and layout. Our area has very little inventory and turnover in this neighborhood is rare..
LOL
I'm just picturing his reaction if I told him that there was nowhere to poop. He'd change his mind in an instant. hahaha
Seriously though, I just talked to him again about it and he's realizing that it would be a bad idea to get involved with this house. If we had unlimited money to do the renovations needed, I'd maybe consider it, but we don't, so that's that.
I swear - we must go through this every time we go to an open house though...we went to see another house right before the holidays that was a 'flip job' and he was all over that one too.....the history of the house had it listed as purchased in May for 200k, then it went back onto the market for double that about 2 months later. Initially when we walked into the place, it looked beautiful but once my hubby got over the bright shiny newness of everything in the house, I was able to point out all of the shoddy work that was done. That and the obscenely small yard, we both wound up crossing that one off the list.
It sounds like he was just temporarily blinded. Good for getting that worked out. There was a major difference of opinion on that one.
Sometimes you just have to lay it out as bluntly as possible. For me "there's nowhere to poop" is a dealbreaker. I need a functioning bathroom. I'm attached to my modern conveniences.
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
Yea, it happens (temporary blindness). It's happened to me too a few times and then it wears off and we move on. We're new to this whole house buying business so between that, and just wanting out of our current housing situation sooner rather than later, I think we're both getting anxious to find something. Right now we live in a studio apartment, and while it's a large studio and was ok when I first moved in with him (7 years ago), we've completely outgrown it, plus the sooner we find a house, the sooner we can start focusing on our other big life plans. We don't have to be out of our place any time soon, which is great and it's cheap to live so we can save money, but it's just getting to be too much now. I have almost all of our wedding gifts still in boxes tucked away in our closets because we have nowhere else to put any of that stuff. Will be fun to bust it all out once we have the house, but for now, it's just away not being used at all.
Whatever house you buy you both need to be 100% on board. Resentment can build quickly if unforeseen problems arise.
You may just see the surface issues of the house. When you start opening up walls usually you find more trouble. Even in houses that look great. An example is in our last house we had a breaker box that was known for causing fires, $1000 dollars right there to put a new one in.
You also maybe in for the hard labor but keep in mind lots of jobs require tools too, so add that expense in.
Personally, I'd spend the extra 20K on a different house. The types of issues you are describing are very likely going to cost more than that to fix, and I wouldn't want to deal with the hassle and stress of all the reno's, contractors, etc.
I bought a house that I knew had "slight" moisture problems in the basement. After we moved in, we discovered that these "slight" issues are going to result in thousands and thousands of dollars to fix. Additionally, we basically have to gut the basement (which was finished) and start all over again. I also disliked my kitchen and bathroom and planned on remodeling them, not realizing how expensive those projects were going to be.
If I had to do it all over again, I probably would not buy this house. I was a first time home buyer, and I was very naive to the expense, time, and stress factor in buying a house that needs work.
So often people think a couple grand will take care of cosmetic repairs. Not even remotely true. We had a very well cared for 1989 house that needed nothing beyond removing tacky brass lights, updating sad vinyl, etc, and to bring it up to date in style only was roughly $20k. And that's shopping online sales at Home Depot, negotiating prices with contractors, etc, etc. So if that's the price for a house full of cosmetics, imagine what cosmetics + systems + structural adds up to.
Read this post I did and page me on the D&R board if you have specific questions. (I'm rarely over here, so I likely won't see your post.) I'll be happy to talk real world costs with you.
My Pinterest
The Googlesites Paint Bio
Thinking of doing cosmetic updates to a dated home? These were our costs.
If you know that what you're looking for is a house that is move in ready that can be updated over time, don't even look at homes that are true fixers/gut jobs. It's a waste of time and it's easy to get swept up in the idea of getting a "deal." It's true that if you're handy and willing to live with the hell of major renovations, in the long run it IS a good deal. But, you can also lose your shirt if you end up having to hire it all out because you're in over your head or under estimated how much it will cost to fix it all.
DH and I bought a gut job house. We knew (as much as anyone can) what we were in for and knew we'd do most of the work ourselves, and STILL it was the hardest, most challenging thing we've ever been through. I'd never do it again (unless I could afford to hire out most of the work) and that's having gone into it with realistic expectations and DH's skills. I can't imagine what a nightmare scenario it would be to buy a fixer on a whim. You have to REALLY want to do it (both of you) and be ready to make all the sacrifices (i.e. giving up all your nights, weekends and vacation time) for it to work.
Good luck with your search--I'm sure your cosmetically outdated, yet sound and taken care of house is out there somewhere!