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Estranged SIL - Need opinion (long)...
EDIT: Given the amount of details, I will probably DD this after a couple of days. I really am trying to figure out a healthy way to deal with this and welcome all opinions/advice/points of view!!! Thank you so much for reading.
EDIT (1/16/12) - I have deleted all the background.
Then this week we received a package in the mail from her, addressed to DH, with a gift to our son. No note. Nothing, just the present (and we don't know what it is, it is still wrapped). We debated about just refusing it and sending it back, unopened. We know (as it has been in the past) that MIL will start inquiring at some point if we have received it. And here is where we don't know what to do. Theoretically, the riff is between her and us, so our son should not be a part of it, so ... should we just give him the present and tell him it's from an aunt? (He's 14 months, so won't really understand what's going on). DH thinks that he'll send her a note saying "Thank you for sending this. if things continue as they are, our son won't have any idea of who the person sending these things is". He doesn't want a relationship with her. I don't want a relationship with her. And the grievance is that if we are to just graciously accept this, we fear this might be in her eyes (as has been many times in the past), a way in which now we're "over it" and she can then just call/talk/email/act as if everything is fine and we're buddies buddies. We don't want this woman in our lives, not to that extent. We don't have a problem being around her, politely, but that is not enough for her when we actually see her (as was that Thanksgiving time and some others before). How do we go about this? We know we can't control what she does but we can control how WE deal with it... and the problem is we are not sure what the best way might be right now.
Re: Estranged SIL - Need opinion (long)...
DH and I are actually estranged from our SIL (his brothers LONG term girlfriend) - and it's HER choice because she's, well, insane. Which is fine w/ us. Like you - I actually want nothing to do with her.
She recently sent DS a gift, even though she's never met him (he's 3). We never actually got the gift (she sent it to the IL's and the toys were for more of a 1 year old, so they are handling returning the gifts to the store), but if we had, we would have accepted it and just given the toys to DS.
My take - so what that you all aren't close to her? Have you received NO gifts from "distant" relatives or friends? We have - and a gift is a gift. I think accepting it doesn't mean you're welcoming her back in y our life, or that you're now goig to be best buds.
Even when your DS is older - it can still be "This is from your aunt". He asks about her, who is she , why doesn't he know her - you just keep it light "Oh- she's too far away" or what have you. Your son doesn't need to know the inner workings of the relationship in order to simply know he has an aunt who occasionally sends gift.
I have to say, though - that while 90% of this is about your SIL, you're kind of glossing over the role your MIL plays in all of this. She and SIL feed off of one another and I think you all need to analyze that a little more.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Wow, you've really been through it with this one, haven't you?
I guess my answer is going to be largely affected by your answer to this one: "If she weren't family, if she were a random friend, would you accept the gift (and know that it'll come attached with all kinds of strings - because you know it does, right?), or would you donate it to a charity or otherwise give it away?"
To me, she's made clear that she has certain expectations and demands of you guys. You have put the kibosh on them in the past, and in my mind, there's no reason you should stop now. She's not sending you (or your child) a random gift - she's sending you notice that if you accept said gift, there will be other "gifts" you'll have to accept as well. And those might be gifts that you'd rather not have.
There seems to be, also, a sense of competition in that family, likely perpetrated by your MIL. But the point is, just cause his sister will never do XYZ doesn't mean she has any power or control over how he (and you) do it.
SIL sounds really unstable and although she might have good intentions (wanting to be your friend isn't a bad thing, overall - how realistic is it, though?), she clearly has a hard time with her emotional instability and competitiveness. Do you really want that in your life?
Your SIL sounds like a real gem! Wow. I have to give you credit for toughing it out this long! I know I wouldn't have been able to do it! I say send the package back. It is a vehicle of "contact" that SIL is using towards you & DH. There is no sincerity behind it. I don't think SIL knows how to act & it's not your job to teach her. From how you've described your MIL, it's no surprise SIL acts/behaves the way she does. MIL is enabling the train wreck.
I have had gifts held over my head before. People use them to "buy" back affection. Even though you & DH know better than this, SIL will still think it works this way.
Besides, where do you go from here with SIL? You can't pick & choose which forms of communication to accept & which to ignore? Just be consistent & cut.off.all.ties.
(I have also edited this response and deleted some specific examples!)
Indeed - if this gift was from a distant relative we would take it and either give it our son without too much thinking or pass it on to somebody else who might need/want it (friend or charity). It's the associated-issues that might come with it, as JoEsther noted, that we fear.
EastCostBride, you are correct that MIL has a big role in this. She enables SIL because of many issues, and she tends to just let her be and "have her temper"... which is fine, but she can't expect everybody to just be cool with that temper crossing boundaries...
But back to the gift/current situation, I do like your approach so far. Give the gift, it's from your aunt, enjoy (or, depending on what it is, if for some reason it's not age appropriate, we'll just pass it on to someone else who can enjoy it)... all while being clear (to ourselves) that this doesn't mean anything else other than gift giving.Since this is your H's sis, I would let him make the decision how to handle it. This way down the road, when whatever decision was mad is attempted to be thrown in your face, your H will take full responsibility. This avoids remarks such as: she manipulated him into cutting me out of his sons life OR she is just materialistic and wants my gifts.
However if this were my own sibling, I would not accept the gifts.
This sounds a lot like the relationship we had with dh's brother for many years. Send back the gift, unopened, with a note that says "We appreciate the trouble you went to, but you understand why we cannot accept this" signed by your dh. If you accept the gift, y ou are saying "We want and welcome a relationship with you".
Block her email and text capacity. Tell your MIL when she brings it up that the matter is closed. Walk off if she does not accept that.
If it were me, I would not keep the gift, but I would not send it back. I would open it or not (depending on what makes it easier for you to donate), then give it to an appropriate charity. I would not write a TY note.
If MIL asked about the gift, I would tell her anything that goes between you/H and his sister is none of her business. I would not share with MIL or SIL that you gave the gift to charity, unless SIL specifically asks you. I would go along the lines of "yes, we received the package. Thank you, but please don't buy anything more for DS." You don't need to go into anything else ("he will never know who you are anyway" etc.).
In person, I would keep a polite distance. Don't waste the energy it takes to argue with her. If she starts screaming that you ignore her (or whatever), "I'm sorry you feel that way." and end discussions. Lock yourself in the room, get in the car, whatever. And if MIL says anything, tell her that you are not seeking her advice on how to deal with SIL.
I would also consider staying in a hotel when you visit your ILS. If that means you visit less frequently (b/c of the cost), so be it. That is how your MIL will learn to make stays pleasant and uncomplicated for you.
I'm curious if your DH points out to his Mother that her meddling is going to be another reason he does not want a relationship with his sister? The woman has to be told point blank in no uncertain terms to stay out of the middle and to stop making excuses for her daughter. You are tired of them, and the next time she does the poor sister party line then tell her to knock it off. Your SIL is a prize, but the apple did not fall far from the tree. I think your MIL thrives on the drama. Good for your DH to stand up for you. Normally it is a DH problem, but this is a true IL problem.
Return the gift. Tell MIL to myob about it.
Why does your H even talk to his mom and sister? He should cut them out of your lives, I think.
If he won't do that, he should make it so you don't have to engage with them at all. They seem like they love starting trouble with you. It's his family and he should be a big boy and put a stop to this.
Everyone has given thoughtful advice to both keep and return the gift. I think what you are striving for is a way to neutralize the gift, so it doesn't lead to anything else.
Fact is, you can't. You can't because of the person you are dealing with. You're worried about what will happen if you keep it or send it back because of the person who sent it.
So, do what you want to do - you must have a feeling one way or another, and deal with the consequences as they happen. If she gets offended at the return, so be it. If she acts like you guys are best pals if you keep it, so be it. There is nothing that YOU can do to stop her from acting or saying one thing or another. So, stop trying.
And the same goes for your MIL. She has consitently meddled and will continue to think it is alright to do so. So deal with her accordingly - whichever way you choose to handle the gift. But I strongly encourage you to stop answering her questions and start to take a stronger position that she is wrong for asking and directing how you deal with her grown daughter.
I thank you all for taking the time to read the super long post and offering advice. Here is the update -
DH called the ILs today to say hi (as he does during the weekends) and, as expected, MIL asked if we had received and opened the package "SIL had sent". DH told her that we had been busy and hadn't (and didn't add to that). Well, as it turns out -and I swear you can't make this stuff up!- the gift apparently is some children's books that SIL had found in her house (from when she and DH were little) and then took to IL's house (presumably to pass on to our DS, but with MIL you never know if she's really telling you the truth or if she's making something plain sound nicer)... so... MIL took it upon herself to mail them to DH -UNDER SIL'S NAME!!!!- I mean, seriously people!
There was some extra discussion and DH was basically telling her to please stay out of it.
As to why she gets a "free pass"... Well, it's not a "free pass"... at least not fully (for example, DS has a private photo page that she no longer gets access to because SIL bragged to us that MIL had given her the password -that we had asked her not to pass to anyone- so I quickly changed it and that's been it -we do have a public site that they're welcome to see and where we still put some pics of DS)... And DH quickly calls her out on stuff and she tends to apologize... and in between "episodes" we actually have nice moments together with them (the ILs), and that's the main difference between her and SIL; there are no nice moments with SIL. I don't even know if it makes much sense, but DH feels (and I do too), that at least with MIL we can actually tell her "you're being crazy, please stop" and then she will actually stop (albeit shortly before guilt-tripping us in her "grandma" ways now that we're unfair to poor SIL).
Anyway. So now DH doesn't feel like he has to send a note at all (after all, those were his books too), and since SIL didn't actually send them, I won't feel guilty about not following etiquette rules and not sending a thank you note.
I do thank you all for your insight. Might wait a couple more days before DD the thread. Thank you!
UPDATE (1 h after the original post) - So, we opened it. The gift was wrapped BY SIL. And there were not the "old" books, but those same books just bought now (6 Dr. Seuss books; we already had 3 of them). I wonder, why the hell would MIL say that they were the old books SIL had found in her house and just dropped at her place. No, SIL actually bought them, wrapped them (with a note saying "To: DS From: SIL and SIL's H") and then took them to IL's house. Now, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall to see how that discussion went between SIL and MIL. Did SIL actually ask MIL to send them? Ugh. You see the crazy I deal with. DH was very annoyed about his mother not saying things straight about the whole thing. Anyway. At least the Golden Globes are entertaining!
Translation: MIL interferes and causes problems, DH quickly calls her out on it, she tends to apologize, she stops for a while, then MIL interferes and causes problems, DH quickly calls her out on it, she tends to apologize, she stops for a while, then MIL interferes and causes problems, DH quickly calls her out on it, she tends to apologize, she stops for a while, then MIL interferes and causes problems, DH quickly calls her out on it, she tends to apologize, she stops for a while, then MIL interferes and causes problems, DH quickly calls her out on it, she tends to apologize, she stops for a while... you see the pattern?
Based on what you wrote, MIL gets a free pass, whether you want to admit it or not.
Ziti, you are correct that MIL constantly gets a free pass. In talking about it, DH and I think it is because, as I mentioned before, we actually can have nice moments with them when there aren't SIL-related issues in the discussion/horizon. That, and because well... FIL is actually very nice and understanding of the craziness with SIL, and it feels as though it would be unfair to keep him out of the loop just because he's married to MIL... Does that make sense?
I had to come back and read this thread again because I just got an email from SIL (addressed just to me, not DH) asking if we had gotten the gift she sent (because... in all honesty, she knows it already got here since MIL found out it had on Saturday night). It irks me because if none of the other crazy stuff had happened (or we weren't in an eternal pattern of this stuff, as with MIL), her email is actually nice and there's nothing to be annoyed about it (other than the fact that she wrote it as if we were in constant touch - she added some extra stuff like the fact one of my blog entries was nice to read and some world events... like an email you would get from people you are in touch constantly and things you would mention in passing). And I don't know what to do. I fwd it to DH but that's it.
DH is out of town and won't see it until he gets back, probably. But since she emailed me (and not DH), I guess it's up to me to respond? Do you think a"yes, it arrived, thank you", while not engaging in the rest of the email topics would suffice to make it clear that this gift is not a sign that they're welcome back into our lives all friendly and this is just polite interaction? I truly am at a loss!!!
But it wouldn't be because of any actions on your part that you'd be keeping him out of the loop. It would be because of your MIL and her actions. Does that make any sense? If you don't demand that your MIL stop the nonsense (and that means you and H hang up the phone or walk out the door and cut off contact with them until she proves she can comply), then you lose the right to complain about her actions, and by extension your SIL's actions since your MIL is the one who eggs her on and encourages her to cause all the problems to begin with.
You're the ones allowing her to treat you this way.