Buying A Home
JoEsther
member
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Renters laws? Section 8?
I posted something similar to my local board, but I figured I'd try here as well.
Do any of you know anything about forbidding homeowners in an HOA from renting to Section 8 renters? Or how to disallow that in general? Or how to evict such renters (for cause) as an HOA?
We have some renters in our community that most of the homeowners want to get rid of (I won't go into the reasons on here but suffice it to say they're legit). The owner of their house lives out of state, I believe.
How can we force him to evict them, or how can we, as an HOA, do it ourselves? Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
Re: Renters laws? Section 8?
From what I understand, it is almost impossible to evict Section 8 renters, even if it is for cause and you are the homeowner. I can almost guarantee that it will be impossible to write in your bylaws something to the effect of not allowing Section 8 renters since that would be discrimination. If they are truly causing a lot of problems that go against your current bylaws I would just fine the he!! out of the homeowner until they take the hint and evict them. I cannot imagine there is any way the HOA can evict someone.
Like I said I would fine them for every single infraction until the homeowner takes the hint. If they aren't doing anything against your bylaws then you may need to see about amending the bylaws to prohibit certain things.
I think your HOA bylaws would have to forbid any rental units if they specifically want to exclude section 8--otherwise I believe there would be a good case for discrimination.
As for eviction, I can't imagine that an HOA has a right to evict a tenant. If they are breaking the law, you call the police and then file a complaint with the landlord. If they are violating HOA bylaws, you follow through with warnings/fines to the landlord.
My Valentine Bookends (2~13~13, 2~15~09)
Interesting replies, guys. Thanks. Fine the hel! out of them - that's doable.
What about on the basis of criminal activities? Can we as an HOA forbid a renter if they have a criminal past? Anyone know? Or can we change our bylaws to reflect this?
Our HOA makes landlords give them a copy of the lease and it requires the landlord to get a background screening on renters and give them a copy. I *think* they may even reserve the right to approve the lease terms but I'm not sure if I remember that right.
If your HOA has a copy of the lease, look it over and see if you can tell that the renters are breaking any rules. Like PPs said, I can't imagine that the HOA would have authority to evict tenants but you can certainly help it along.
A lot of what you can/cannot do is specific to the bylaws. You can fine, but can only fine in the amount that is predetermined and following the exact bylaws as written. Often that includes multiple written warnings, signed fee schedules, etc.
As for what the HOA can/cannot require, some of that is going to be state/city specific and will require change to the bylaws (which is often more difficult than you might imagine since more than HOA board approval is required). In many cases, current homeowners will be "grandfathered" into the bylaws that were in place when the property was purchased and the new bylaws can only be enforced when the property changes owners so that wouldn't help your current situation.
Out of curiosity, has anyone bothered to contact the landlord to discuss the concerns that you all have about the current occupants?
My Valentine Bookends (2~13~13, 2~15~09)
I don't know if anyone's contacted the landlord, but someone should, for sure. I do think that if there is a fee allowance in our bylaws, letting him know that he's going to be racking up the fees in the near future might help "encourage" him to evict them. Also, because I'm a landlord myself, I want to strongly recommend to him that he assign someone to go in and check on the property - I'm sure it's a total junkhouse at this point, based on the tenant's behaviors.
Why does this post reek of racism/discrimination? Your post is about section 8 aka Choice Housing which is a program that helps low income individuals/families and MOSTLY disabled individuals/families obtain better housing. In these situations, the government issues vouchers in which the landlord accepts as rent payment - the government sets the rent amount.
While I am sure there is a legit stereotype that occurs and can be bad for a neighborhood/complex ... what is your real reason for wanting to evict this person/family?
Is it just because 'you know' they are 'section 8'? What does that even mean. How do you know they are 'section 8'?
WHAT have they done that you want them to be evicted other than being 'section 8'?
Do they litter, do they have too many cars, do they play loud music, do they have cars that aren't as expensive as you would like to see parking in the drive, do they not water their plants, do they not mow their lawn? WHAT IS IT that bothers you so much that you are seeking out their eviction? Because THOSE issues should be what you address because THOSE issues should be part of your HOA or local law instead of worrying about whether they are a part of the Choice Housing program.
Sorry, I just find this post pretty pathetic.
TBH I have no idea how I heard that they're Section 8. Could have been at an HOA meeting, because they've been breaking all sorts of rules for a long, long time.
A few examples. This is not a complete list, by any means. They allow non-residents into the gated community on a regular basis (handing out the gate codes, probably making copies of their keys). They leave their trash cans out way, way past when the trash receptacles are emptied (often days), they play loud music at late hours, and honk their horns at all hours. They park their cars in disallowed locations within the community, and don't move when asked. Their kids take other kids' toys and bikes without permission and ride them and leave them in random spots. I have other suspicions but I won't get into them because they're not provable at this time. But if you ask me, that list is enough.
I don't care that they're Section 8. I don't care where they get the money to pay their rent - if it's from an oil well in the Middle East or from the government (not going into that right now). My point is that because they're Section 8, they have certain protections and certain restrictions, and I want to know what they are. I don't want to avoid dealing with them as a population in the future, I just want to know how we can avoid dealing with the rules and regs Section 8 puts in place. I'm not limiting the people, I'm wanting to know how to limit the rules.
You originally said "Do any of you know anything about forbidding homeowners in an HOA from renting to Section 8 renters? Or how to disallow that in general? Or how to evict such renters (for cause) as an HOA?"
Your initial quote and follow-up don't jive.
If you are on the HOA board, or have anything to do with this situation directly, stay FAR, far away from any mention of Section 8. Whether or not it's your intention, it does scream discrimination. Section 8 and housing laws are strict for exactly this reason.
However, this issue has zero to do with Section 8, and everything to do with having crappy neighbors and HOA violators. The HOA should be on top of these violations for all residents, regardless of who is actually living in the home. If the owner of this home was living there and having the same behaviors, I'm assuming you would be just as annoyed. What can be done in that situation is exactly what can be done in this situation. The HOA can site and fine for whatever is listed in the bylaws as a violation.
Being an annoying neighbor is not against the law, or HOA bylaws. Be very careful about noting the concerns/complaints. In order for an HOA to site, the concern must be clearly stated in the bylaws. My HOA does have clauses regarding the trash cans and noise, but not the rest. You can also call the police for noise violations. Depending on your city, they may or may not be interested in checking in on that.
The best way to prevent tenants (or owners) from acting like this is to make sure that the HOA follows up quickly and fairly on all violations. Owners will be more careful about who they rent to, if they know that they'll see a fast fine. I think that trying to legally prevent these renters that you are concerned about is a very slippery slope into a discrimination lawsuit. Section 8 renters are just like any other renter - most are great, and a few really suck. It has nothing to do with where the money comes from.
Good luck! I know it's hard to deal with neighbors like this.This doesn't necessarily mean he CAN evict them. He can try to recoup his fees from them, possibly in court. He might be able to deduct the fees from the security deposit. But really, only non-payment is a solid reason to evict someone.
And no, you can't not allow people with a criminal past to not rent. Having a criminal past has nothing to do with whether or not someone can pay their rent on time and be a good tenant. And specifying that would be discrimination. The exception would be legal - for example, in many areas, sex offenders aren't allowed to live near schools, so if you are within a certain proximity to a place where children congregate, they wouldn't be able to rent. But even then, it's on THEM to not rent that place, not the landlord or the HOA to enforce it.
40/112
In your situation, you may be stuck with the tenant issues you have, since you can't likely change any rules in regards to renting for owners who have already rented their units. The owner of the unit with the problem tenants would be grandfathered in under the old rules and the new rules wouldn't take effect unless the unit changes ownership.
I have a rental property in a condo complex with an HOA. This is how our HOA handles things:
1. Homeowners who rent their unit must use a lease provided by the HOA, the lease must be for a minimum of one year, and the homeowner must show proof of a criminal background check on all tenants age 18 or older. The owner must provide a copy of the lease to the HOA.
The HOA can not refuse any tenant approved by the homeowner. The HOA can not impose rules such as not permitting Section 8 renters or not renting to people with a criminal background, that's discriminatory. We show proof of a background check just so the HOA is aware of tenants with a criminal history since they can't legally prohibit us from renting to someone with a criminal record.
2. If homeowners choose to rent, they must give the HOA's property manager permission to deal directly with their tenants. If a tenant is breaking an HOA rule, the property manager can send warnings directly to the tenant, without having to go through the owner.
Our HOA rules state that if a resident (either an owner or renter) breaks rules, they get two warnings before a fine is imposed.
If the tenant repeatedly breaks rules, the HOA can not fine the tenant, but can fine the owner. Most owners would get sick of paying fines in the case of a problem tenant, and would deal with the issue. Only the owner can evict the tenant, the HOA can not evict tenants.
3. We have an addendum in our lease with our tenant that states that we have provided the tenant with a copy of the HOA rules, and if we are fined by the HOA for the tenant's non-compliance with the rules, the tenant will be required to reimburse us for all fees imposed. If the tenant's behavior causes us to incur fines and the tenant refuses to reimburse us for the fines within 60 days, we have the right to terminate the lease and evict the tenant. (we had an attorney draw up this document for us)
Mr. Sammy Dog
As a frame of reference, my HOA has the trash can rule, loud noise (music and honking would qualify), parking regulations, and property (toys, bikes, etc) must be put away every night.
I have a few questions though...
Why are your neighbors leaving toys out if they know these people take stuff? Why is this your concern? Are they taking your stuff too? There was a bike thief in our neighborhood for awhile, so the parents had their kids put their stuff away as soon as they were done with it. Nothing was left outside unattended until the thief was caught.
Do you know these residents are handing out the gate codes and making copies of the keys? You'll have to prove that before you can fault them for it.
Why don't you have their vehicle towed if they leave it in an unauthorized space? Our HOA has a towing agreement, any vehicle parked in an unauthorized manner or with expired registration/inspection will be towed at the owners expense. Do you have something like that written in the by-laws?
Why don't you call the police with the noise ordinance issues?
You'll have a hard time getting them evicted them on the grounds that you've stated. There are a ton of rules protecting renters and eviction is near impossible, except in cases of non-payment and willful destruction of property. And even then it takes a really long time. The best you can hope for, I think, is that the landlord doesn't renew their lease when it expires and gives them adequate notice of said non-renewal.
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