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New build, contractor refusing to put in 30" doors for a wheelchair
We are planning on buying a home from Rausch Coleman in Little Rock, Arkansas. We have picked our lot, planned out most of the details. Our uncle is in a wheelchair, and we want to put in 30" doors so he can get through the house unaided. RC is stating that they cannot put those in there for us, but that we are more than welcome to hire a second contractor AFTER the house is built, and have them rip down our brand new doorways, and fix this.
It hasn't gotten ugly yet, but I just don't understand how 1) this legal, and 2) where they get off telling us what we are "allowed" to do to our home once it is ours.
I don't even know where to begin to get them to do this. It will not alter our floorplans, our square footage, it's (from what my bf explained to me) a matter of explaining to whoever does the doors to make sure they have 30" clearance.
Suggestions?
Re: New build, contractor refusing to put in 30" doors for a wheelchair
Are you able to get out of the contract? If he is not a custom builder, they don't have to make changes like that. He not only has to tell the person to do it, but they have to order different materials than they normally do and might have to redo some plans. I know my builder wouldn't even let me bring a 9-light door in to be installed instead of the full glass back door.
The house is not "yours" yet is it? i.e are you in a contract to purchase the house once it's built or are you financing the construction and already own the land and such?
We have the contract sitting on our coffee table, but refuse to take them back until we get a final answer on this. The corner lot is one of the last ones in the neighborhood, and if we don't get that one, we will most likely look somewhere else (we have two dogs, and the standard lots have little to no backyard. The current lot is one of the biggest available). We had to put down a 1,000 check to hold the lot until the paperwork was finished, and there was some very nicely worded business in the contract about how they can hold the check for up to a year. We love the neighborhood, its perfect for the bf's work and when I will be going back to finish up school. We don't want to go with another house, we really liek this one, but these doors are a must.
The plans were sent to one of his family members who called me telling me about shims and measurements, most of it was over my head, but from what I understood, as far as the "skeleton" of the house was concerned, those doorways could be taken all the way up to 32" without majorly changing the layout. They made it sound easy, it is all foreign to me.
Is this a custom home? Or are you buying in a development where the builder is putting up multiple homes from a set group of floor plans?
If it's the latter, first, it's not your home until it's built and you close on it. So they aren't telling you what you are "allowed" to do once it's yours; they've clearly said that once it is, you are "welcome to hire a second contractor" to fix it. Second, I know when we bought our last new build, we were specifically told no changes could be made to the specs (and that would include doorway widths). That's because the models were standard, and approvals/permits had been issued based on them. Changing anything in terms of walls would require new permitting for that particular lot, which cost the builder time and money. Never mind that if they did it for one customer they'd have to offer that option to every one, and suddenly "stock" homes become "custom" builds. They weren't in that business. I agree, it sucks, but there it is.
Moving the studs to accommodate a wider doorway definitely can constitute a "floor plan" change that they aren't willing to deal with but I'm not an architect so I don't have specifics. And I don't think they legally have to do it...I did a quick Google search on ADA regs and everything I saw says that the requirements apply to "places of public accommodation." A private home doesn't fall under that (although there is something called a Specially Adapted Housing Grant I read about that requires 48" hallways), and I'm not sure what Federal or state laws might govern your situation. Would be nice if they'd be accommodating but not everyone is. Hope it works out for you.
It's not custom, we picked a floorplan out of available ones. So it would be more of a permit issue? I hadn't thought of that. We are considering the contractor option, the bf seems ok with it, but it irks me to tear down something we just paid so much money to build. Like having them paint it green so I could go back and paint it orange, you know? I was just wondering if anyone had had any experience with either the company or a similar issue.
Thanks for the feedback!
I don't know what is typical, but we are needing to change them from 28" to 30". It just didn't seem like a big deal to me, but of course, I am not a contractor.
I've always heard 30-32 is standard for interior (non closet) doors and 36 for exterior as well. 28 is the smallest width doors I've seen besides some specialty ones. I'd worry about being able to get dressers in bedrooms.
That was my worry too- getting things in/out of a room or the house at less than 30".
Op- sorry I'm not of any help. Are the hallways larger than 28"? If they don't want to change to a 30" I'd look elsewhere. Seems like a pain to hire another group to come widen all the doors. This could turn out bad because it'd require the door frame to be widened, could mess up flooring, baseboard, drywall, etc.
Oh yes, the hallways are plenty large enough for a 30/32 inch door. This is why we were so confused as to why this would be such an issue. My dad did construction back in his summers as a teenager/young adult, and bf has family in state that does it as well, so it wouldn't be as much of an inconvenience as it *could* be, and I'm thankful for that, but it's just not a road i want to go down. There are a lot of small customization items I want to do, but those are things I *want* to do, if that makes any sense at all.
I really am not looking forward to beginning our house hunt again either. : /
If you want a custom home, build a custom home, not a production home. Tract housing is so affordable because builders have figured out how to do it quickly and inexpensively based on their pre-designed floorplans/schematics.
Like PPs have said, this is not an accommodation your builder is required or obligated to make.
It sounds like you asked for the builder's input/advice and he gave it to you, which was hire a contractor to make the changes after your home is built. That's where he gets of telling you what you are allowed to do to your home once it's yours.
I agree.
Would it be possible, as a compromise, to have the builder not finish certain aspects (flooring, molding on doorways) so there's less to have a contractor undo and redo? They might be willing to upgrade something else, or give you a modest price break for not completing some of the finish work. That's the best I've got. I don't think pushing for changes to the permitted plan is likely to get you far.
I doubt they can do that since the house would have to qualify for a mortgage after it is completed and before they can take possession from the builder. Most mortgages require floor coverings.
They don't require moldings on door frames, though. It was just a suggestion. I don't know what kind of financing OP plans to use.
It may also be possible to negotiate for cheaper, lower quality finishes for the flooring, doors, etc. than the house is spec'ed with in exchange for a price break, since those things would have to be replaced or changed with widened doorways.
We cannot afford a custom home in that area, nor does it fit into our timeline. This will be our first house for both of us, and we chose to have something more affordable than go all out. I had responded to the PPs that I had not realized this would cause a permit issue, that I was new to this, and that I had no idea what to do/if I could do something.
I did not ask for the builder's advice, but if it was doable. The saleswoman telling me what I am "allowed" to do with my home after it is built and in my name is over the line. It is not an apartment, it would be my home.
5thofJuly, we had options on appliances to upgrade and pay the difference, that type of thing. I asked if the door price was part of the issue, so I could offer to do something similar as with the appliances, and the lady just answered "No". : / I think it was more along the lines of permits, as a PP stated, but she didn't state that at the time, and I had no idea it was such a huge issue.
Susie, I thought along those lines too, but it will have to be finished entirely before it's signed over, sod and all. I think them being able/used to putting them up so fast makes them less likely to negotiate, because they don't have to to get people in those houses.
I've talked to the bf, it looks more and more like we're going to have re-begin the house hunt, which I am not looking forward to at all.
Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate all the info.
: )
We have to be fully approved and signed off before they will break ground. I think as a PP mentioned before, if it causes a permit issue, it would be a no-go on their part.
Ps, your Hermione gif made me smile. : )
Yes, but they will pull your credit again and you have to be "mini-approved" before you actually close. I bought a house like this and the neighbor's house was listed for sale after it was completed instead of someone just moving in. After being nosy enough, we found out that they got credit cards the month before they were to close and bought all new furniture for the house. They then didn't qualify for the house because of their debt and weren't able to close on it.
Ah. We weren't too worried bc its 40k below what we were approved on (on his own as we wont be married until some months after we purchase it), and the minimum credit score required is about 100 pts below ours. Good to know though. We've already started the stockpiling of cash, and paid our credit cards off (thank you wee baby jesus) last year.
I always wondered exactly how that happened.
: )
We may be restarting our search soon, and older just looks the way we may have to go. He has a very "sporty" chair, as he calls it, and it's come up several times in conversation that all he needs is 30" (he gets heated about it a lot, lol).
The front and back are 36' ( I believe?), but other than that, it's 28' across the board.
Agree with PPs that the house does not belong to you until you close and have keys. There are many reasons a purchase could fall through, and making a major structural change to a home is much too risky, and expensive. It may or may not require new permits, but it would likely require re-design by an engineer.
The only weight you can pull is to threaten to back out of the deal. If the lot is hot, it will go quickly and the builder will be out nothing from losing you. They really have no incentive to make any accomodations if they can easily sell to someone else. If the market is very slow and they are desperate to sell, you might have a better chance at trying to work something out with them.
I think your best bet is to find a house with plans for 30" doors, or plan to hire your own contractor to change any existing doors.
She doesn't own the home. The builder is under no legal requirement to make any changes to the home since it doesn't fall under ADA rules. I cannot see how the builder can be forced to make the changes to a home that she does not own and is not public property.
My Valentine Bookends (2~13~13, 2~15~09)
As others have said, the builder is under no legal requirements to make changes since you do not own the home. My parents bought a home last year (through a large, national builder) and they did move some things in the house to accomodate what changes my parents were going to make. But none of them cost the builder any money. However, to change something that would cost money, my parents did have to pay extra.
If the builder (or even site foreman) won't make these changes, even with a fee, then it's time to accept that you'll need to make these changes yourself or walk away from the home. Making changes like 30" doors may not appeal to the masses and therefore they cannot take the chance if your financing falls through.
It's a dog's life!
To do what? Even if the OP already did actually *own* the home (which she doesn't) and there was some requirement for the builder to make modifications for them, what disability law would require a builder to do anything because OP has a potential visitor with a wheelchair that might stop by one day?
Speaking from experience having worked for two national builders... We had extensive training on this, and I was instructed that builders are required to make reasonable accomodations The builder had the ability to charge people for these modifications and could say no to some changes not considered reasonable (ex - we didn't have to agree to add an elevator, but we did have to cost out wider doorways). If I can find any specifics on my work computer, I will re-post.
State laws also affect this. Where do you live? **ETA, I see you are in Arkansas.
I would suggest calling this organization - Disability Rights Center of Arkansas
Im sorry about not coming back and being able to answer that quickly enough for you; thanks for the link, I appreciate it, I really do.
I don't know how else to phrase it that I didn't realize changing the door size made the house a "custom" build, but do now. Or that because I don't own the home, accommodating a handicapped family member (who we see frequently, several times a month,not some one who would potentially/might stop by) was trying to get something out of the process I had no reason to expect. Sorry for the confusion.