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Mella&T
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Someone's getting a little brother!
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Man who shot his daughter's laptop...thoughts?
This might help get the board movin'...Have most of you seen the dad who filmed himself calling out his daughter for her rant about him/her mom on facebook and then shooting her laptop with a gun? They touched on it briefly on the Today show this morning and I wanted to see what you guys thought. Here's the link to video **Warning: Contains some profanity if you are at work** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr7vSJHkchs
Someone's getting a little brother!
Re: Man who shot his daughter's laptop...thoughts?
I think he mostly seems like a douchebag.
Based on her rant, his DD seems like a typical entitled teenage brat, but him embarrassing her like this doesn't really seem like a good way to fix that problem. You can't feed your kid sugar and candy for years and years and then wonder why they are fat, kwim? It seems to me that he must have created this bratty entitled monster by giving her too much and now being annoyed that she's ungrateful about it.
I didn't watch the video but based on what I've read and heard, the guy is a nut job. Teenagers suck, trust me. They will say they hate you, complain about their life, etc and it's just the way it is. The teenage years are hard for both the parents and the child. I have learned to pick my battles. People can say what they want about what they will do when raising a teenager but seriously, until they've been there, it's easier said then done.
ETA- I do monitor my son's FB and if something was on there I did not approve of, I would have him delete it. I'm not going to blow up his computer--something that can also be used for school.
Someone's getting a little brother!
Someone's getting a little brother!
DH showed me video, but I haven't seen the follow up (and I would be interested in it). I'm not a gun fan at all and I think that is way too extreme. Honestly, when watching the video and listening to all that they required the daughter to do I told DH that it seemed like a lot to me, and I would rather that instead of doing all of that at home that teens be doing more activities, diverse things. I felt that instilled a lot more values and principles in me by focusing in school and activities than just doing the chores that he listed.
The fact that he made a video to make a point didn't really bother me, but I don't think he should have ever brought a gun into it as it sends the wrong message.
Found it! Here's the responses from the family with regards to the video going viral and the interest it has sparked:
http://www.litefm.com/pages/news-story.html?feed=421220&article=9744152
"My daughter isn't hurt, emotionally scarred, or otherwise damaged"
How does he know this? I'd be willing to bet that HE was embarrassed and he wanted to do the same thing to his daughter. Seems extremely immature imo.
Oh, it's text, hon, not a video. But here's a C&P in case you're having trouble with the site. It's long: my apologies for the length!
---
Attention Media Outlets:
While we appreciate the interest you're all putting forth to get in touch with us regarding the video, we're not going to go on your talk show, not going to call in to your radio show, and not going to be in your TV mini-series.
Some of you think I made an acceptable parenting decision and others think I didn't. However, I can't think of any way myself or my daughter can ...respond to a media outlet that won't be twisted out of context. The Dallas news TV news already showed that in their brief 5 minute interview with the psychologist.
Additionally, there's absolutely NO way I'm going to send my child the message that it's OK to gain from something like this. It would send her a message that it's OK to profit at the expense of someone else's embarrassment or misfortune and that's now how I was raised, nor how she has been raised.
So I say thank you from all of us. If we have anything to say, we'll say it here on Facebook, and we'll say it publicly, but we won't say it to a microphone or a camera. There are too many other REAL issues out there that could use this attention you're giving us. My daughter isn't hurt, emotionally scarred, or otherwise damaged, but that kind of publicity has never seemed to be to have a positive effect on any child or family.
If you're a news outlet that wants to ask us a question, feel free to so via email. I'm sure by now my email address is easy enough to find. It might take me awhile to get to a response because I'd have to sort through the "Die you bastard" emails to find it, but we will respond if its something that we feel merits it. Otherwise, sorry... no interviews, no talk shows, no call-ins.
If we respond to anything, it will be on here, and it will be in a way that our words can't be misconstrued or edited for appeal to specific audience or shock value.
Now, I'm going to try to get to work for the day.
Best of luck to all of you out there... and PLEASE give my phone a break.
==========================================
HOW HANNAH GOT CAUGHT
HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really.
I finally came out and told her this today, partly because it was too funny NOT to share.
When my daughter made her post, she used Facebook's privacy settings to block "Family" and "Church" friend's lists. All her other friends could see it. We, of course could not.
One of our dogs is always getting in photos and therefore has her own Facebook pa...ge. It's just a cute dumb thing we did for fun. Well, the dog's profile is rarely used except when funny pictures of her are posted. Since that's not too often, and she has very few friends on Facebook, her wall is kind of bare, with relatively few posts showing up on it.
The other night we gave the dog a bath and there was a funny photo we uploaded to Facebook and tagged her in. I logged in as the dog the next morning to comment on the photo. However when I logged into the dog's profile, my daughter had forgotten to add her to the "family" list.... so our family dog's profile showed her post right there on the front page.
It wasn't any parent-hacking, computer spying, or monitoring of any kind.. the dog actually ratted her out completely by accident. She hasn't petted that dog all day today...
==========================================
HANNAH'S REACTION
For those that wondered, commented, criticized, and just in general wanted to know:
My daughter came through it fine.
Yes, she's in trouble, and yes she's grounded, but that doesn't mean every moment of her life has to be miserable. She's going to come to terms with the changes that will be present for a while; no TV privileges, no Internet, etc.
In the meantime, once the initial anger passed,... she sat with me reviewing some of the comments that have come in via Facebook and YouTube. One person even suggested collecting the shell casings and auctioning them on eBay. I said I?d do it if it would help contribute to her college fund! When I told her about it, she thought a minute, got a funny calculating expression on her face and said, ?in that case you should shoot my phone too. We can use more bullets and I?ll go half-sies with ya on it! It?s not like I?m going to need it any time soon. And I can use the money we get to buy a new one.?
While the whole point of this story isn?t funny, what is funny to me is how weak some people out there think kids are. Our kids are as strong as we help them to be. My daughter took a horrible day in her life, had her crying fit, then got over it, accepted her punishment, and hasn?t let it (or people?s comments) destroy her strength. I don?t get any credit for that. She?s strong and able to overcome almost anything life throws at her.
Since this unsuspectingly threw her into the limelight much more strongly than either of us intended, I asked her if she wanted to make her own response video, and told her I?d let her do it if she wanted to. She doesn?t like being in front of the camera, so she declined, but I?ve told her if she wants to write a response or post a video response, I?d be OK with it. It?s only fair considering the viral nature of the whole thing. So far she?s not really interested. Quite frankly it seems she?s gotten bored of it much faster than the general public has. If that changes I?ll post it here.
==========================================
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:
Media Response to Anita Li, from the Toronto Star
Since you took the time to email us with your requests like we asked, I?ll take the time to give you an honest follow-up response. You?ll have to forgive me for doing so publicly though; again I want to be sure my words are portrayed the way I actually say them, not cut together to make entirely different points.
Your questions were:
Q: Why did y...ou decide to reprimand your daughter over a public medium like YouTube?
A: Well, I actually just had to load the video file itself on YouTube because it?s a better upload process than Facebook, but the intended audience was her Facebook friends and the parents of those friends who saw her post and would naturally assume we let our children get away with something like that. So, to answer ?Why did you reprimand her over a public medium like Facebook? my answer is this: Because that?s how I was raised. If I did something embarrassing to my parents in public (such as a grocery store) I got my tail tore up right there in front of God and everyone, right there in the store. I put the reprisal in exactly the same medium she did, in the exact same manner. Her post went out to about 452 people. Mine went out to about 550 people? originally. I had no idea it would become what it did.
Q: How effective do you think your punishment was (i.e. shooting her laptop and reading her letter online)?
A: I think it was very effective on one front. She apparently didn?t remember being talked to about previous incidents, nor did she seem to remember the effects of having it taken away, nor did the eventual long-term grounding seem to get through to her. I think she thought ?Well, I?ll just wait it out and I?ll get it back eventually.? Her behavior corrected for a short time, and then it went back to what it was before and worse. This time, she won?t ever forget and it?ll be a long time before she has an opportunity to post on Facebook again. I feel pretty certain that every day from then to now, whenever one of her friends mentions Facebook, she?ll remember it and wish she hadn?t done what she did.
The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don?t give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it?s like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you?re young. Most of the things she has that are ?cool? were bought or gifted that way. She?s always asked for very few things, but they?re always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them. That?s not learning the value of a dollar. Its knowing how to save money, which I greatly applaud in her, but it?s not enough. She wants a digital SLR camera. She wants a 22 rifle like mine. She wants a car. She wants a smart phone with a data package and unlimited texting. (I have to hear about that one every week!)
She thinks all these things are supposed to be given to her because she?s got parents. It?s not going to happen, at least not in our house. She can get a job and work for money just like everyone else. Then she can spend it on anything she wants (within reason). If she wants to work for two months to save enough to purchase a $1000 SLR camera with an $800 lens, then I can guarantee she?ll NEVER leave it outside at night. She?ll be careful when she puts it away and carries it around. She?ll value it much more because she worked so hard to get it. Instead, with the current way things have been given to her, she's on about her fourth phone and just expects another one when she breaks the one she has. She's not sorry about breaking it, or losing it, she's sorry only because she can't text her friends. I firmly believe she'll be a LOT more careful when she has to buy her own $299.00 Motorola Razr smartphone.
Until then, she can do chores, and lots and lots of them, so the people who ARE feeding her, clothing her, paying for all her school trips, paying for her musical instruments, can have some time to relax after they finish working to support her and the rest of the family. She can either work to make money on her own, or she will do chores to contribute around the house. She?s known all along that all she has to do is get a job and a lot of these chores will go away. But if you?re too lazy to work even to get things you want for yourself, I?m certainly not going to let you sit idly on your rear-end with your face glued to both the TV and Facebook for 5 to 6 hours per night. Those days are over.
Q: How did your daughter respond to the video and to what happened to her laptop?
A: She responded to the video with ?I can?t believe you shot my computer!? That was the first thing she said when she found out about it. Then we sat and we talked for quite a long while on the back patio about the things she did, the things I did in response, etc.
Later after she?d had time to process it and I?d had time to process her thoughts on the matters we discussed, we were back to a semi-truce? you know that uncomfortable moment when you?re in the kitchen with your child after an argument and you?re both waiting to see which one?s going to cave in and resume normal conversation first? Yeah, that moment. I told her about the video response and about it going viral and about the consequences it could have on our family for the next couple of days and asked if she wanted to see some of the comments people had made. After the first few hundred comments, she was astounded with the responses.
People were telling her she was going to commit suicide, commit a gun-related crime, become a drug addict, drop out of school, get pregnant on purpose, and become a stripper because she?s too emotionally damaged now to be a productive member of society. Apparently stripper was the job-choice of most of the commenters. Her response was ?Dude? it?s only a computer. I mean, yeah I?m mad but pfft.? She actually asked me to post a comment on one of the threads (and I did) asking what other job fields the victims of laptop-homicide were eligible for because she wasn?t too keen on the stripping thing.
We agreed we learned two collective lessons from this so far:
First: As her father, I?ll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that.
Second: We have always told her what you put online can affect you forever. Years later a single Facebook/MySpace/Twitter comment can affect her eligibility for a good job and can even get her fired from a job she already has. She?s seen first-hand through this video the worst possible scenario that can happen. One post, made by her Dad, will probably follow him the rest of his life; just like those mean things she said on Facebook will stick with the people her words hurt for a long time to come. Once you put it out there, you can?t take it back, so think carefully before you use the internet to broadcast your thoughts and feelings.
- Taken from Tommy Jordan's Facebook Page
Read more: http://www.litefm.com/pages/news-story.html?feed=421220&article=9744152#ixzz1mYwmsCMb
I think it was a gross overreaction.
Teenagers are self-centered, rude, attitude-ridden little shitheads. They're assholez. They biitch and moan about their parents, who they think are complete and utter idiots. It comes with the territory. I haven't had to parent a teen yet, but I remember *being* a teen, and I was a total twatwaffle to my mother. If you think I have an attitude problem now (and, y'know, I do), you should have seen me at 16.
I think that kids have a right to biitch and moan and complain. Do they have a right to be disrespectful and ignorant in their home, to their parents/siblings/etc.? No. But there has to be some venue in which they can play victim of parental-induced slavery, or whatever the issue of the day may be. Once upon a time that was a diary. Now it's Facebook.
We don't know the full back story, but it's clear that the daughter has been punished for similar behavior before, and I can understand how the father would be utterly fed up with it. I think a more appropriate course of action would have been to take the computer, wipe all personal information, and donate it to a child in need. I think that the daughter should have closely monitored internet access SOLELY for schoolwork purposes. And I think she should have to bust her azz to earn a laptop of her own down the line, should she so choose.
The list of chores that she's expected to do did seem ridiculous, but that's not even my biggest issue. I think that using a gun to make a point to anyone, especially a child, and outside of a criminal situation (ie, a cop wielding a gun against a violent suspect), is inappropriate. I realize he was shooting at in an inanimate object, and I suspect that the culture of guns where they live is vastly different from the one in which I've spent my life, but I still think it's unnecessary and out of line. Guns are not toys. They should not be treated as such. Ever.
I've seen people (not here) suggest that CPS should be called, he should lose custody, and that it's a precursor to abuse - I think all of those are gross overreactions. His responses to the video going viral make me think that he's a more thoughtful father than I'd initially chalked him up to being, and I don't think he's a bad guy. He punished his kid in a way I don't agree with and would never, ever, do (or allow my husband to do) with my own kid, but I think he was at his wit's end and made a choice in the heat of the moment.
It doesn't bother me at all and I can't understand why this is so newsworthy and why people feel like they can judge him or his family. Partially, I know I'm flabbergasted by the coverage of this because they portray this guy to be some bumbling hillybilly idiot which he's obviously not, despite the Southern accent and use of a firearm which I know equal stupid in the minds of some people.
But also, I think some people and some families are just more comfortable with guns than others are. I don't think guns automatically equal violence. I grew up in a home with a father who shot inanimate objects (trees, targets, etc) and some animals with much control and a complete lack of violence.
For those who are uncomfortable with firearms, this might seem crazy but in a family where people are trained to discharge a weapon appropriately, this is no different than using a hammer or backing over it with a car.
Sure, it would have been a more charitable punishment to give the laptop away or retain it for family-wide use but it's his property and he can do what he wants with it.
People make FAR dumber decisions about disciplining their children and people put FAR stupider stuff on YouTube. I really don't get the outrage.
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My personal thought:
Awesome for calling her out, but the gun took it a bit too far. Do the video to embarrass her, take her laptop away for who knows how long, ground her.. whatever ... but shoot the laptop?
I got into almost a mini facebook fight over this. I think it was extremely disturbing what he did. Rather than retype my thoughts, here was the dialouge from FB (with names omitted)
Friend's original post with link to video: Anyone who thinks this guy went overboard is just as spoiled as the kid.
Me: No...it means I don't believe in teaching children to retaliate or punish by pointing a gun.
Friend: Shoot, I must have missed the part where he shot his daughter (or any other human being) in retaliation.
Me: Again, it means I feel that teaching a child to point a gun at *anything* is wrong.
Friend: I disagree. Given the fact that guns will never go away, I believe in teaching a child to point a gun at a target and make sure they understand the importance of proper gun etiquette.
Random person chiming in: Well Kelsey, there goes the Air Gun, Paintball, and BB Gun industry. With all the kidnappings and sexual predators out there looking for victims, I would have to agree with Josh. I actually would be perfectly fine teaching my daughter, when she gets older, how to defend herself if the time ever comes (hope not). Hell, my wife learned how to shoot a gun at 6 years old!
Me: You leapt from a man shooting a laptop to protecting your daughter from rapists? Ok it goes without saying to teach your child to protect themselves (even though it doesnt have to involve a gun), but teaching them to point, shoot, and destroy something because you're mad? Well, not the way i will want my child to think.
Random person: I get what you are saying and yes it is a little extreme, but sometimes traditional methods are like spitting on a fire...not going to work.
And then I gave up because I don't like arguing with people I don't know.
~ Kelsey Jean ~
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He pretty much lost all credibility with me by the simple fact that he is holding a cigarette in his hand throughout most of the video.
He is quite obviously a do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do parent. Yes, I understand that nicotine is an addiction on par with heroine to beat, but holding a cigarette in a video which is essentially a lecture/lesson? That's just poor.
Also the fact that he went on and on about how his life was at 15 is completely irrelevant and I felt like he used that portion of the speech to pat himself on the back. I don't know if I can believe that at 15 he was living independently, going to school, working full time, being a volunteer firefighter, finding a cure for cancer, etc. and it almost sounded like he expected his daughter to be living the same way? if you had a child would you want that for them at 15?