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Update (long, as usual)
I wanted to update everyone on my situation. I really appreciate all the support you've given me.
DH went to his first therapy appointment on Wednesday, then his second on Friday. His therapist suggested firmer boundaries (we'd been having sex), including potentially us sleeping in separate beds while DH sorts things out.
I'm getting frustrated because I feel like he has all the power right now. I told him this and his response was that he does not like having it. One of the friends he's been talking to has been divorced (his wife cheated, then was the one with all the power during the divorce). Apparently this friend is trying to help him understand my perspective/situation.
Right now I'm trying to be patient and see what comes from him doing individual therapy for a bit. He wants to go twice a week because he wants to figure things out. He's still unwilling to go to couples' counseling at this time, but also keeps saying he doesn't want to hurt me.
So as of right now I'm in limbo, and I'm working at being okay with that. I'm also working on preparing myself for the worst, though when I think about that I freak out. Part of me wants to smack him. He keeps telling me he believes that he'll always love me, no matter what. I'm going to therapy once a week right now and considering seeing my doctor to get a PRN for anxiety, because I think the uncontrollable shaking I had last week may have been a panic attack. Not sure, and my therapist didn't give his opinion yet. But I think it might help me handle things like sleeping separately. We're currently sleeping in the same bed, but no cuddling or physical contact beyond maybe a little hand-holding. That was our compromise.
I do see that I could potentially do better and have a better relationship with someone else, but I also see that we haven't put enough work into this marriage and I want to make sure we've done what we can to try to fix things before we walk away. That's why I'm willing to be patient while he tries to figure things out in individual therapy.
Re: Update (long, as usual)
BFP #4 It's a BOY!
CP: July 2011
BFP #3: 11/3/2011 M/C 12/12/11
We miss you and love you always, little firecrackers!
Ugh, we just talked some more. He said he thinks he's so scarred and shut down emotionally from our relationship that he'd need a new relationship with a woman who accepts him as is. Or at least a couple years not in a relationship to heal and become himself again.
I asked him about our fundamental incompatibilities again. They almost all sound like things that developed over time, not things that are truly fundamental. Except for how I feel about guns and marijuana.
This sounds like he is not willing to see if you will accept him as he is after he has gone through some therapy. I am curious if he would allow you to talk to his therapist. I don't mean now, of course, since he has only been twice. I just mean eventually. Keep taking care of yourself. I am no expert, but I think a PRN for anxiety might do wonders for you. (((hugs))))
Thank you Julie. I'm not sure if he'd be willing to let me talk to the therapist in the future. Maybe, but not right now. It's so strange, he is in some ways very walled off and hard, but in other ways very sensitive and concerned about my feelings (to some extent). I think he's scared of all the hard work it might take to fix our marriage and thinks it would be easier to start over and have kids on his imagined timeline with someone new. I'm trying not to over-analyze and am planning to give him more space.
I think it's time to make an appointment with my doctor. I need to get my skin checked (moles) and get referred for a blood panel anyway.
I'm so sorry for this situation you are in. You know, it's not your fault. None of it. People are human, and when we trust people and make ourselves vulnerable to them, it makes it possible to get hurt.
To me, him saying things like "I don't want to hurt you" means he's checked out and is trying to figure out how to not be the bad guy in playing out the inevitable in his mind.
You think he has all the power, well, I say give it to him and let him hurt away -- you need to know where you stand now so you can find your next station. Only question is whether he has the cojones to rip off the hurt band-aid all at once, or whether he's content to let you suffer in pain over weeks or months while you loyally stand by him. I ask you, what genuinely caring, devoted, and committed person would willfully do that to their partner? Please think about this seriously.
Look for your own space here -- you need it. We are always here for support too.
Oh Jess-- I was praying for a different outcome. It sounds like he is done. The accepting him "as is" thing I would imagine means someone who doesn't ask him to give up his addictions (weed) & who feels differently about guns in the home.
I understand that people change, but this whole "not wanting to hurt you" line makes me angry for you. He IS hurting you no matter how you slice it.
Take your space & I really hope you don't have anymore panic attacks. We are here. Sending you great big hugs!
Fuss, I think you're largely right. I have trouble believing him, but then I know I should believe what he tells me. I think he's too chickenshiit to face up to hard work, in any form. I think he doesn't want to face the hurt he's caused me. I think he doesn't want to face the fact that he's placed his mother above me and let her rude and negative comments about me soak in a little too much. I think that he's an idiot if he thinks he'll ever do any better than me. And I don't care how biitchy that sounds. He will probably never find another woman who will put up with his bullshiit the way I have and be as intelligent and good-looking as I am (again, I don't care if I sound conceited/biitchy in this moment).
He says he'll love me no matter what and I'll always have a place in his heart and even if we were separated, if something happened to me he'd want to be there for me. If we divorce, I'm not going to be running to his side when something happens. I think he can't admit to himself that this marriage means more than he says it does right now. I'm going to head over to a friend's place tonight, then I'll be doing dinner with another friend Monday. I'm going to give him space.
Unfortunately, my doctor's first available appointment isn't until March 8th. I'm going to call Monday to see if they can squeeze me in sooner.
Betty, the accepting him "as is" actually came up in regards to him saying he's very sensitive and empathic and feels things deeply for others. He's shut that off because I get passionate and he internalizes it as anger or just overall can't handle my emotional intensity. I fully believe that this is largely due to family-of-origin issues and he knows that (my mistake). So he wants someone who isn't passionate about issues, doesn't ever passionately express her opinions. His mom also passionately expresses her opinions, but in a crazy, over-the-top way. I think that's scared him too.
I just found marijuana hidden in the second bedroom, with a pipe. Clearly on some level he's chosen drugs over me, which is what I never wanted in a spouse.
I just have to figure out if I confront him or how to handle this. I need to think. I just called my therapist to request an appointment earlier than Wednesday morning. I feel like I need to process with him to help me determine the best way to proceed. Right now I want to tell him to come get all his shits and get the out.
This sucks on so many levels, especially finding the pipe and drugs. I went through this with H (he's recovered alcoholic), and would find pop bottles filled with vodka around the house. The last straw was bailing him out of jail after a DWI. I too wanted to tell him to get the eff out at that point, but gave him the chance to make it right. He did. However, he was willing to make the effort, where it doesn't sound like your H is as much, aside from the individual counseling. If you have any shot at making it, he needs to get his azz into an -Anon (narcotics? Alanon? Not really sure which it falls under, TBH) and stick with it. Only then do you have any hope, along with him agreeing to marriage counseling.
It sounds like you are prepared for a split, and that's good. As is always advised on TIP, get copies of all your pertinent records and have them ready to take with you (if you are the one that leaves) should you separate. I hope for the best for you, but it does sound like he's checked out and waiting for you to 'be the bad guy'. Sorry jess, this whole thing blows. ((((jess))))
(((hugs)))
I'm so sorry, Jess.
You don't have to confront him, not now. It is what it is and he knows it too. It's part of what's going on. Just let him know you know what's going on. If he wants to wonder what that means, by all means let him.
You deserve an honest person in your life. Let him choose -- for himself -- whether he wants to be an honest man first, and YOUR honest man second. Right now he's neither nor close to either.
Be good to yourself, please. You're a great person and have a lot to offer. You've helped a lot of people here, and we're grateful for it. You have a lot going for you.
Honey you have been around here way too long, and have seen this way too often. You need to go to a lawyer and get moving. I can not for 1 min. believe that this is a guy you want to be with Jess. Not 1 min.
Even if he came home tomorrow and said i love you and i'll do whatever it takes....WTF would you want to be with him anymore??????? WHY?
He doesn't want to go to counseling with you. That means its over Jess. He doesn't want to work on the marriage because to him it is already over. He doesnt want to stop smoking, and him having drugs in your house should be reason enough to tell him to GFHS.
good god girl....WHY are you continuing to give him all the power?? You said you are willing to wait and see what therapy does for him? WHY? What do you think will happen? He will see the light? Realize how f'ing lucky he is? Realize he isnt going to get another Jess? So what if he does....what happen 2 months from then when hes hiding pot in the bathroom again and tells you he doesnt know what he wants again.
Jess i know this is hard, but sweetie you need to get yourself together and stop putting up with his shiot!
Please make sure you are taking care of yourself. You are a strong independent valued person. Recognize that. You do have power.
((((Hugs))))
WOW --- is this ever a red flag!
The way I am translating that "he'd need a new relationship etc" statement: he'd rather have out than work on his problems with you.
And as for the guns and pot...oye....has he got a weapon in the house that you do not feel comfortable with? Uh, and what does he need a gun FOR?
None of this sounds great to me, especially that comment about how he'd have to make a fresh start with somebody else. Scarred and shut down emotionally, eh? Please...:(
Thank you ladies. And now I brace myself for the butt-kickings about to come my way.
I know that I'm not at the point where I'm ready to file for divorce. I have few illusions left, but there's still this little piece of hope in me that I can't extinguish yet. I'm planning to talk with my therapist, extensively, about this. Right now I know we will probably divorce, but I can't commit to that path yet.
I know that I've told people they don't need to stick around while their mate gets healthy. I can't bring myself to walk away yet. I'm angry, but trying not to act solely out of anger. I need to make sure this is a well thought-through decision.
There's no gun in the house. I am anti-gun, as I think many of you here know. I do not want any guns in the house. He grew up with guns in the house, learned how to use them, is okay with them. I did not. They scare me. Thus, there have never been guns in the house.
We talked today and he says he was honest with me about his recent use history in the conversation. He supposedly stopped 2 months ago, was using a little socially, then started using on his own because he couldn't handle what was going on in his life, but stopped because he decided he needed to start facing things. He might still be lying. If he doesn't get rid of what's in the house, I have my answer, I think.
God, this whole thing sucks SO badly. I know you probably all want to kick my azz for not having already found an attorney and for not having kicked him out yet.
I do believe that I deserve better than I've been getting. I think I'm not sure yet that he couldn't give that to me in the future. And that's why I think I'm not ready to walk away yet.
What are you getting out of your marriage these days?
I know you are holding out hope that things will get better, but I'm not exactly sure where that hope is coming from. Your H is telling you that he is not willing to put in the work that you are. Why do you think he is not being honest with you?
Wait, so is he saying he's emotionally scarred because you don't love him for what he is? (e.g. not letting him have/use drugs in the house or keep a gun in the house).
You know what that really sounds like? It sounds like a bunch of whining about not getting his way. It sounds like he wants a wife who's like, "OK, sure, keep a gun and pot in the house honey!" And he wants to have children with this person? Because guns and pot in the house are great for when you have toddlers running around.
I'm not going to kick your a$$ for not being ready to file for divorce yet. I can understand the desire to hold out hope that he'll have some sort of epiphany during therapy. But, it sounds like you realize on some level that that's probably not the case. I think right now it sounds like you need this limbo period as a kind of mourning period for what you think is inevitable.
So here's my advice. Obviously, start preparing for the worst in terms of getting your ducks in a row. But also, put a deadline on this period of limbo. You need to have an end date in sight, so you don't get stuck in this nowhere-land for longer than you need to be. Maybe it's 2 months, maybe it's 6 months, but you definitely need a deadline where you make a decision and move forward, one way or another.
This makes me so pissed off for you. I'm sorry Jessimau.
So, basically everything Donny said, heh. Hugs, Jessi.
He wouldn't have all the power if you took it back.
Did you ever see that episode of How I Met Your Mother about being "on the hook"? That's exactly what his "I'll always love you" garbage is. He's stringing you along.
Ugh. I know you feel ways about him and about your marriage, but he doesn't even come close to being good enough for you, and you know it.
Hey jumping in late and I admit I need to read the rest of the thread, but this jumped out at me.
He wants someone who doesn't feel passionately or to whom he has a "control button". Do you want to shut down who you ARE to make it happy? I think it's awesome how passionate you are... I worry that he will just snuff that out over time.
Second, I also wonder how much it has to do with long term marijuana use? I am not against pot, but anything long term and over-used will dull someone's senses.
Thank you for all the feedback and support ladies. My therapist was able to see me Monday morning and we had a lot to think about. As of right now, I'm really thinking a lot about what I want and how I've contributed to where we're at, even though I know he's also contributed significantly. I think it's largely because the majority of our history has not included this stuff.
I'm not going to stay in limbo forever. I'm not going to snuff out my passion (this I think is really related to his mom's crazy). But I'm willing to look at my own role and see if we can change the tone of our relationship. Moreover, I'm willing to be the first one to make changes, because I know he can't yet. A big reason I'm willing to give it more time is that he's only been to two therapy sessions and I want to give him a chance to grow through that. He has 2 sessions this week (as do I, tomorrow I get to share my recent insights with my therapist). He's going to once per week after this.
Kuus, I think I've been most worried about your reaction (and mags & tarpon, too). I hope that I'm not disappointing you all, but I have to stay true to what I feel is best right now. Divorce isn't off the table in either or our minds yet, but I think we've both been really inflexible in some ways in our expectations for one another. As my therapist pointed out, nothing I've mentioned isn't fixable if we're both willing to fix it. That's the key, and what I'll be keeping an eye on. I'm trying not to be overly naive, I promise.