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"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
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Kay, is this near you?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/27/us/rhode-island-city-enraged-over-school-prayer-lawsuit.html?_r=2
I'm assuming "outside of Providence" = Rhode Island
Is there more to the story?
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
Re: Kay, is this near you?
Really? Why?
The poster formerly known as PDXPhotoGrl
Does she empathize in any way with members of her community who want the prayer to stay?
?I?ve never been asked this before,? she said. A pause, and then: ?It?s almost like making a child get a shot even though they don?t want to. It?s for their own good. I feel like they might see it as a very negative thing right now, but I?m defending their Constitution, too.?
"If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it. Don't be mad when you see a knit cap won it. If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it."- Fenton
But she's right. She's defending their ability to freely practice their religion absent state intervention.
The poster formerly known as PDXPhotoGrl
Yeah, I got pretty disappointed by about this point-
Pat McAssey, a senior who is president of the student council, said the threats were ?completely inexcusable? but added that Jessica had upset some of her classmates by mocking religion online.
But I did giggle at McAssey.
"If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it. Don't be mad when you see a knit cap won it. If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it."- Fenton
I don't think this is about practicing religion and that's where we have to part ways. since its a 50 year old prayer no one was asked to read, recite or practice. I hope that my kid would fight this battle without being a completely dismissive cocky douchebag. I hope she would request a debate about the prayer's place in the school and work with her peers to find something that worked for her and them.
I mean I hope my child never looks upon any sweet gradeschool written 50 year old prayer and takes a "god doesn't exist dum dum take it down its for your own good" approach. i hope she joins a theatre redecorating committee and puts the prayer in some sort of historical display about the school, or finds a way to incorporate things into display or piece of art without dismissing the community she lives in.
But she is right now, a bit of a pawn for the ACLU so i don't know if my contempt for her is just the smug spin the article puts on her or for the organization's place in this fight.
I'm scratching my head at Lanie. She's 16! Of course she's going to sound precocious. But she's right and standing up to what sounds like an incredible amount of adversity. It's a public school, there shouldn't be an 8 ft tall prayer hanging in the hallway.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
Eight. Foot. Tall. Prayer. Public. School.
And wtf is a pawn of the ACLU?
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
I think anything that is a part of a 50 year old history should remain, though maybe placed elsewhere in a different format. I don't believe there should be any prayers said in a public school. and perhaps I'm too Canadian here. But there isn't a public school around here without a photo of the Queen and a little prayer beneath it (God save her and what not). There also isn't a public school around which doesn''t have a non denominational prayer/faith room for those who require it. And whose art doesn't contain at least a little from various religions.
I think a lot of perspective has been lost in these debates. While an 8 foot 50 year old child's prayer is a strange thing to have in a gym, its been there for 50 years and is hardly "God is our saviour and the one true god will smite you." I mean... really.
I really don't see an issue. I really really don't. I think its sad they're using a self righteous teen as plaintiff here but really. I do think this is pretty funny. I'd certainly laugh if my kid came home with a bee in her bonnet about a pretty innocuous prayer.
yes.
So if it was an innocuous prayer to Odin or Satan or something else you felt had no part in Jo's education, it wouldn't bother you?
I understand wanting to protect history, and I think it's a pretty sweet little prayer. It just has no business hanging in a public school. If the school wanted to make it part of a historical display, they've had somewhere around 50 years since school-led prayer was banned to create one. I think that oversight is more on the school than a self-righteous teen.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
She says some pretty messed up things on her website. The girl needs a walk in the sunshine.
Listen, I went to a school of the arts where jesus' place in the last supper painting was replaced by satan and hitler by one sophmore student in an anti religious statement. It hung in the lobby for a good amount of time. so yes, I would be ok with it. It was controversial. it was a good debate. It brought some press to the school and discussion to its members and faculty. It was also flipping unbelievable. he was quite interesting and turned out to be quite the artist.
that's what learning is all about. I don't believe that prayer should be said in public schools or requested to be read. But where do you stop? Books that may have prayer in them, even referenced? I mean, I think at the end of the day there needs to be a balance and when you let a 16 year old know it all spearhead a very expensive and very public debate that just makes her look like a tool, I think there's something wrong.
at this stage I think the prayer should come down, but she also needs to learn a littttttle respect for others and for the faith of others and take an internet break. I really think she's making herself and the entire debate look ridiculous because that's just what 16 year olds do when they get on twitter.
Regardless of how obnoxious she, she's right.
And I don't care how obnoxious you are, if her biggest crime is that she's an obnoxious atheist kid that mocks religion online, she doesn't deserve to be threatened and have her town rain shiit down on her.
She's throwing some pretty vicious stones. She doesn't deserve to be threatened at ALL, but she's pretty awful in her online presence and if her school and town are starting to squalk, I don't think there's a bad lesson in that.
EDIT: And this is where I think the ACLU was partly responsible. A 16 year old plaintiff they don't seem interested in educating or helping media train at all? Sad to me.
I can agree with you there. Because she was going to town meetings and whatever already, and that's why the ACLU contacted her. As her representative it might be nice to give her a clue about the ways she can best represent her/their case to the media and anyone else she talks to.
We didn't have any prayers or sanctioned prayer time in my school, but I was the weirdo atheist kid in my school. We talked about religion and Christianity and particular a lot, mainly in history classes, but we also read sections of the bible as literature in a few English classes. Discussions that were supposed to be about historical context and literature always, always, always turned into discussions about religion itself. Maybe it was stupid of my teachers to expect that there wouldn't be the atheist kid that challenged the very religious kids that couldn't talk about the bible as literature without also proselytizing, or maybe it was stupid of them to keep expecting those religious kids to not preach. But I got labeled a freak and a Satanist (by idiots) and people started rumors about my bff and I being lesbians.
Anyway, it certainly didn't ruin my life or even my time in high school or anything, but it was awkward and uncomfortable. And I can see how it would only have been that much worse if I felt like my school itself was sanctioning the act of making me feel like an outsider, and I can see how it would be that much easier for people to bandwagon against you if the school did seem to be sanctioning it, you know? So I can empathize with her a little bit.
I hear you.
We never had any bible passages in english class. That sounds a bit intense to me.
We flew a communist flag outside of the student council office, we held mass protests in defence of our teachers during a huge strike that resulted in a hand written letter from the premier requesting our immediate inaction or a resulting explusion for all of the student council members. We had Sue Johannsen come and talk about sex ed when an STD disaster hit (the resulting letters from parents were quite hysterical).
We were very politically active kids who were probably full of angst and attitude as much as anyone else. But mocking religion? nooo sirreee. We had a good mix of kids in that school and I wasn't pissing off anyone unless it was in art form. We had a christmas tree and an enormous photo of satan eating at the last supper in the same lobby as the Queen's photo and a campaign to restore the auditorium.We were an arts school though so, clearly a little out there. I have a feeling if there was a huge 8 foot banner with a weird prayer on it, someone would have just turned it into art or a display or a song that everyone would laugh at. And it would all be over. I think there is always the ability to strike a balance.
Yes, this is near me -- Rhode Island is so small that everything is near me. I lived in that city for ten years before Fran and I got married.
No one has acquitted themselves well in this situation. I agree that this banner doesn't have a place in the public school. I had hoped that Jessica would take a more mature approach to this and I've been disappointed to read some of her on-line posts.
However, the great weight of bad behavior has come on the other side: adults telling her she's going to burn in hell and a state representative going on talk radio to call her an evil little thing. Judge Lageux's decision outlines their actions in detail.
The prayer needs to go. The girl sounds snotty and melodramatic, but I think that describes the vast majority of teenage girls in the world, so....
I'm going to continue to find the Freedom from Religion Foundation the most ridiculous actor in this drama.
Sometimes, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the ACLU (which I love in many ways) decides which matters to involve themselves in.
ETA: Yeah, that FB page is obnoxious, and I suspect many of those don't have the excuse of being 16.
I've been to Cranston a number of times - I used to rate them when I worked for a rating agency. Fun times.
I'm always shocked when adults bully kids. She's 16, she has that excuse for being an asss. You're an adult (and a legislator?!), act like one. And yeah, she's totally in in the right.