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What to do with a lying liar?
What would you do if somebody you love lies right to your face? Do you call them out for insulting your intelligence, or just let it go?
Backstory:
My younger brother B got himself into serious trouble last year, and he's still dealing with the repercussions. About 6 months ago H & I extended him some love and generosity to help him get on his feet.
I put in a good word for him with my employer to help B get a job. Also, we had an old car we were going to donate to Purple Heart, but gifted it to B instead so he could get himself to/from the new job.
Well, last week in our employer's parking lot, I noticed that the car's grill and bumper were all smashed up. Yikes! I sent B a text out of concern to find out what happened. His response....."Slid in the snow n rear-ended someone."
Bullsh!t. It has snowed exactly twice this winter in our area, and not since Christmas. The damage was caused in some other way, and he's hiding it, which makes me think he's screwing up again. So my question is: do I call him out or let it go? I'm torn between feeling insulted that he lied, and feeling like I should mind my own business.
I guess I feel extra invested in this because it feels like he's taking our generosity & concern for granted. Maybe he thinks that free cars just fall out of the sky for you after you smash one up? What would you do?
Re: What to do with a lying liar?
Assuming he did actually lie (when did you give him the car? are you positive the damage hasn't been there for awhile? Could he have taken a road trip further north where there perhaps was snow?):
This is a situation that is a lot bigger than the lie, to be honest. I think if you focus on that and on the "you insulted my intelligence!", you're missing the bigger problem.
However, I need to point out that you gave him the car. It's his now. Not yours. Your entire last paragraph basically means there were strings attached to your gift. Were there?
But back to my point - your brother has had issues in the past. As such, is it really all that shocking that he might actually lie to you? It's great that you've tried to help him, but did he really show/ prove to you that he had changed, or did you go into this just HOPING that your help would magically make him change?
If you are concerned that he's slipping back into his old ways, then deal w/ that issue. I feel to focus on the lie is to lose sight of the bigger issue and I think all you'll do is push him further away.
I'm not trying to obsolve him of lying, but I just think that to focus on that and to get all bent over being "insulted" is just focusing on the wrong issue.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I must be missing something.
You gave him the car. Are you paying for his insurance or something?
Assuming that you're paying nothing then I think you're being a drama queen. If you helped him out and he doesn't take full opportunity of it,then simply don't extend yourself again. It's that simple
Youre looking for an argument, mind your own business. That car is no longer yours. If he wants to play bumper cars, that's on him. If/when the card dies on him and he has to take a bus everywhere, he will regret not taking care of the vehicle.
Hello, martyr, party of one.
Did my mom teach you? She's a pro.
You've gotten some good advice here, so my question to you is about the practical side of things: did you transfer the car to his name? The reason I ask is, right now, you seem very invested in how he's doing. Right or wrong, you have put yourself on the line with the car, the employer, etc, for his sake, and although you can't do much to avoid bearing some responsibility if he messes up at work, you can avoid legal liability by making sure the car is on his name and that he's taking care of the insurance.
What would I do? I wouldn't give free stuff to someone I didn't think valued or appreciated it. And I'm a believer that free things are never appreciated or taken care of as well as things that are earned. Think about it - if you worked hard and scrimped and saved for a car, wouldn't you appreciate it more and treat it better than if someone just gave it to you, no strings attached?
My two cents. Good luck!!
Your guilty pleasure isn't Lady Gaga, it's Lady Bountiful.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Lady_Bountiful
While it was admirable of you to give your brother a car and put in a word for him with your employer, it doesn't give you the right to grill him about the car's condition. The customary reaction to a damaged vehicle owned by a loved is "OMG. I saw your car. Are you OK?"
FWIW, it sounds like your help was appreciated given that he's not sold the car and is still working. That's great.
The car was a gift and you were out of line to ask about it.
Ditto everyone else. The car was a gift and he can do what he pleases with it.
And I don't get why it matters if there's damage to it since it's no longer your car. If you want future favors to have conditions then you need to state those conditions up front and put them in writing. It would be a loan in that case, not a gift.
If you are paying for the insurance/gas/whatever, or if the car's in your name, then transfer everything over to him and wash your hands of it.
Stop acting surprised that a constant screw-up is still screwing up. If it's going to bother you when he keeps screwing up, then stop helping him and stop associating with him.
This doesn't even sound like a lie. Why would he lie about rear ending someone?
I'd file it and forget it. It's his car now, his problem, not yours.
I've dealt with a lot of chaotic people who "will tell a lie when the truth will do". I'm often left feeling like ' why lie? why not just be honest about what happened?'. Kinda like the snow storm answer - why say it was snow if it was something else? Any why snow, if its such an unbelievable lie? (if that's how you reacted)
Fact is, he could have ignored your email if he wanted. The answer he gave you sounded more like "no big deal, not my fault, stop asking" kind of answer. I think you are reacting to your gut where you think 'no, he's not being turhtful - so, what's he hiding and why??"
Sadly, if he doesn't trust you with the truth, then you can't make him. Or if it was a simple accident, maybe OOT in some snow, why do you think you had such a huge reaction to it?
But ultimately, making this about you, like he's lying to prove YOU are stupid - well, that seems like the least helpful and most caustic response you can choose. And if you don't believe him - why tell him? What's he 'getting over on you' if you don't tell him he's BS? Why is that a reflection on you and your intelligence?
Bottom line: he was in trouble last year, you gave him support to get back on his feet. What he does with that is up to him. No, if he needs another car, you don't have to magically produce one. And that may be a lesson he has to learn the hard way. If you find him ungrateful then stop being generous. Sadly, sometimes your desire to keep him well might be stronger than his own. His troubles may not be over.
Or you could be realy overthinking a simple answer to car damage.
Hi everyone, thank you all for your responses. I usually only come to TN asking for advice when I don't trust my own judgement because I don't have many people IRL to talk to. I really do appreciate your unbiased dose of perspective.
First I want to respond to questions about the car's ownership status. Yes, we transferred it into B's name legally as a gift and he has his own insurance policy on it. We are free and clear of any responsibility. You're absolutely right that a gift with strings isn't a gift. You've set me straight & I won't say another word to him about it.
I have to disagree with some that I was categorically out of line for asking about the damage to the car in the first place however. If you saw a loved one's car all smashed up (regardless of whether you'd gifted it or not) wouldn't you be inclined to ask about it? I really don't think I being overly nosy there by asking what happened.
In re-reading my OP and looking at your responses, I realize I jumped to a bunch of conclusions about what I assumed was a lie. My reaction alludes to his history with his car accident last year (which I continue to withhold), but I would love to find out that I am overreacting or overthinking things honestly. If he really was OOT & slid in snow, then I will happily open-mouth-insert-foot promptly.
Let me clarify that the paragraph where I called BS is purely taking place in my mind. I haven't expressed my opinion to anyone except you Nesties, so it's not like I made my unfounded accusations aloud. I came here to ask for help processing my feelings/reactions & I thank you for your help. Please continue providing your opinions! Thanks so much.
Point taken! It's not my place to insert myself into the situation in this way. I get that this isn't even remotely about me.
in your first post you say only the bumper and grill-which is a small area of the car and easily smashed, then in your last post you say his car was all smashed up. his entire car wasn't smashed-jsut some bits in the front. huge difference. dont make it more than it is.
and if i saw my family members car bumper and grill smashed i certainly would ask what happened. and i'd believe their answer. i didnt give them the car and they werent in trouble last year. could your question have been more of an acusation?
Well, if it were me, I would have just said "it hasn't snowed here since Christmas" when I thought he was lying.
But since you didn't bring it up, I would just let it go. You gifted the car, it is no concern of yours what he does to it now.
I think my reaction is a little bit different. I am very protective of my (older) brother, and if he was in any sort of trouble, I would help him out, too. If I saw the car, got concerned, asked what happened, and felt like it could be fishy, I'd probably wonder why. I wouldn't care about the car, so much as I would just want to know if my brother was slipping into old ways because I love him. I would probably just call him and ask how he's doing and tell him I was concerned when I saw his car. I'd reassure him that I love him and if there's anything going on in his life that he wants to talk about I'm always there for him. If he doesn't say anything, then I would take his word, but if he did lie and feels compelled to tell me, I would just want him to know I'll be on his side.
I don't know the intent in your situation because I don't know your relationship with your brother, but that's how I would react and feel if it was me and my brother in this situation.
Maybe just ask how he's doing. A non-accusing, loving tone with a simple question goes a long way, in my opinion.
Good luck to you and your brother