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can we talk about guns and perception of threat?
As it relates to the Trayvon case, at least.
H was watching a bunch of the Sunday morning talk shows, and he was telling me (b/c I don't wake up that early) that they were discussing, apparently evidence based, that the simple act of owning a gun makes you more likely to perceive a threat.
So, Zimmerman, being a gun owner, plus a self-appointed neighborhood watcher, would be more likely than I, a gun hater who tries to ignore people, to perceive Trayvon a threat. That's long before you bring in race.
Has anyone heard anything along these lines? Could you point me to studies? Does it anecdotally hold up in your experience?
Would it mitigate some of the calls of racism of Zimmerman's part (not the institutional bias about how the case was handled)?
Re: can we talk about guns and perception of threat?
anecdotally I agree. And I think the statics say you are more likely to be injured with your own gun than injure someone else.
I don't think it has any impact on the racism aspect, however.
Click me, click me!
I would say that I think the reason a lot* of people own guns is because they perceive other people as threats more than those who don't own guns. If I perceived every teenage black boy with a hoodie walking alone at night as a threat, I would probably own a gun and keep it with me when I walked my dog at night. But I don't. So I think the perception of people (whoever they might be) as threats comes into play before someone has a gun. i guess it's kind of a chicken or egg argument.
*not saying all gunowners think every person is out to get them or anything like that.
i don't like guns.
Some guy was cleaning his gun in the neighborhood where my kids go to school this weekend. Next thing you know a yard worker 2 blocks down the street starts bleeding in the shoulder. He'd been shot when the gun accidently discharged.
Above Us Only Sky
Good point, mrsbecky. I think anecdotally that holds up even on this board. The gun owners see threats I don't. Or, maybe I see the threat but don't think a gun would do anything positive to address it.
Like, if I'm groped walking home at night (which has happened and really freaked me out), how is a gun going to help? Do I show it? Then have the guy twice my size take it from me? Do I shoot first? Yeah, I can't see anything good coming out of that gun.
In order to fully appreciate this, I would want to know exactly how many 911 calls/confrontations GZ had with white people walking around the neighborhood wearing a hood and looking "suspicious".
I do think it makes perfect sense that you have a heightened perception of threat by posessing a gun. I mean any course in responsible gun ownership (or a CCW course) is going to have some basis in situational awareness right? Most of us just go about our lives without worrying what the dude across the street is doing.
But, maybe the actions that led to the shooting itself weren't. H was saying something about these studies (that I can't freaking find) showed that the perception was constant across races.
Found the study...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57401613/study-holding-gun-increases-perception-of-threat/?tag=contentMain;contentBody
Fixed link.
I was totally thinking this as well. People who buy guns might do so b/c they see or perceive threats around them. It's not the gun that causes the perceived threat.
As to the pp who asked about groping, I think that's hard. I guess you don't carry a gun if you're not prepared to use it, right? What if that person also has a gun? I kind of feel like in that situation there's a near 100% that at least one of those guns is going to go off.
I really wonder where this Zimmerman thing is going. I think if he's ever arrested and tried, his lawyers could use all those 911 calls he made in the past to show that he's at least paranoid and possibly insane. I'm not saying I agree with that but I have this sneaking suspicion...
Looking at the really paranoid freakoids I know, this seems reasonable. I would also argue that going through the licensing and hassle of concealed carry and keeping a gun on you at all times requires an extra special level of perception of threat (I am a gun owner, but really have an underdeveloped sense of fear about most things).
But, yes, in this case being so overwhelmingly terrified of a kid walking down the street that you feel compelled to shoot him is not general paranoia.
Are you united with the CCOKCs?
Anecdotally, again, I think there's a big difference between a gun owner who owns a handgun or a shotgun that they keep loaded specifically for protection, and a gun owner who properly stores his/her firearm(s) unloaded in a locked case, with ammo in a separate locked case in a separate location.
I don't believe there's a safe way to store firearms that also makes them practically accessible for self-defense, so they are not a part of my personal protection strategy in any way.
If you've got a handgun, you've got it for a reason. And that reason is to use it.
ETA: what I mean is: nobody buys a gun on a whim. A person who owns (nevermind carries) a gun is looking at the world in a different way than a non-gun owning (gun carrying) person. I'm not talking about hunting rifles. Handguns.
I think for me, it's the realization that if I am carrying, I'm going to use it if need be. Don't own/carry if you don't plan on using it and don't know how to use it. I perceive threat or am more paranoid or hyperaware of my surroundings because I'm either panicking that I don't have it on me or am thinking through the potential scenarios that could come into play if I were to get into an altercation.
Does that make sense?
ETA: DH is LEO so he carries all the time anyways, and he feels the threat all the time.
The only way that's happening is if they beat me to death with it, because I'm going to empty the entire clip in their assbefore they can get close enough to touch my gun.
Because having someone take and shoot you with your own gun is the most likely way to be injured by a gun
I would wager a guess you'd see a correlation between type of gun and perceived threat.
Someone who owns a hunting rifle is of a different mindset, I'd guess, than one who owns a handgun or semiautomatic, you know?
No one ever injures themselves with their own gun silly. That never happens.
Oh wait...
DEA agent shoots self during gun safety class for Orlando kids
Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. - A federal drug agent shot himself in the leg during a gun safety presentation to children and his bosses are investigating.
The Drug Enforcement Administration agent, whose name was not released, was giving a gun safety presentation to about 50 adults and students organized by the Orlando Minority Youth Golf Association, witnesses and police said.
He drew his .40-caliber duty weapon and removed the magazine, according to the police report. Then he pulled back the slide and asked someone in the audience to look inside the gun and confirm it wasn't loaded, the report said.
Witnesses said the gun was pointed at the floor and when he released the slide, one shot fired into the top of his left thigh.
"The kids screamed and started to cry," said Vivian Farmer, who attended the presentation with her 13-year-old nephew.
"Everyone was pretty shaken up," Farmer said. "But the point of gun safety hit home. Unfortunately, the agent had to get shot. But after seeing that, my nephew doesn't want to have anything to do with guns."
The agent was treated at Orlando Regional Medical Center after the April 9 shooting and returned to work, DEA special agent Joe Kilmer said.
Police ruled the shooting was an accident, but the DEA headquarters in Washington was still investigating, Kilmer said.
I have a huge pile of articles like this for when I teach firearms safety to actors.
I don't know the stats, talking out my ass I'd say it's not the majority, but hunters usually do have handguns as well. They carry them as a sidearm for secondary protection when you're out in the wild stalking animals bigger and stronger than you. We don't have one yet, but MrP carries his hunting buddy's spare any time he's in the field and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Obv I'm not talking about GZ, I'm just providing a counterpoint to the stereotype that gun owner (even handgun owner) = paranoid psychotic.
If you don't know what the parts of your gun are called I have doubts as to how effectively you can use it.
LOL. I do that with everything--drives DH crazy. But I assure you that I can fire a weapon.
DH is a hunter & carries a handgun while hunting for exactly this reason. However, when he's not hunting it is in the safe with the rest of our guns.
Since we're all talking anecdotes I will say that everyone I know who carries a gun for protection (not while hunting) is of the paranoid/crazy type and would be more likely to perceive other people as threats. They also tend to be horrible about gun safety.
OBOMA WANTS TO TAKE UR GUNS AWAY!!11!!!! I SAY GO BACK TO KENYA AND LETUS HAVE ARE RIFLES. ZIMMERMAN WAS JUST STANDING HIS GROUND. I WOOD 2 IF THAT WERE ME.
Ditto this anecdote, exactly.
Read the article.
The study (not a bunch of anecdotes) has to do with people who are holding a gun, not people who own a gun.
So... take people, have them hold a (toy) gun, and ask them what images of people are holding. Those holding a gun are more likely to identify an object as a gun than those not holding a gun.
Not about paranoid gun ownership.
I am the 99%.
Tritto
Well, glad we settled this point. Hopefully we can somehow incorporate stigmas behind types of cars people own and how that correlates to the type of aggressive bastard they surely must be.
Now please excuse me, my eyes are rolling away down the block and I must go fetch them.
Well, since the study suggests that holding a gun increases perception of threats and above it is suggested that, anecdotally and in our personal experience, people who carry guns on a regular basis do seem to be more likely to perceive other people as threats...is it the conclusions of the study you disagree with or the labeling of gun carrying individuals as more likely to be paranoid and crazy? Granted, that is stereotyping and overgeneralization, but in the four very specific cases I personally know, this is indeed consistent.
I believe there was an article yesterday that spoke to car choice, I think it was less about agression and more about what the ladies like