Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
WWYD (job search related)
So..ugh!
Like I mentioned earlier, I applied for that position this morning, and submitted everything they requested - cover letter, resume, and references.
JUST LAST WEEK I spoke with all of my references, who confirmed that they would be more than happy to be listed for anything to which I was applying.
This morning, right after I applied, I sent out an email to all of the references I listed letting them know that I'd applied for X position with Y company, and sharing my most recent resume so they'd have it on hand.
On my way back from the Hill, I received an email from one of those reference (again, who I spoke with IN PERSON last week, and to whom I mentioned the types of positions and organizations I was looking into), stating:
"Company X? Ya had to hit me in my conservative spot, didn?t you? How would it be if you put me down as an eager reference anytime except if you want to work for the military or a pro-choice group? Does that end our friendship? J
I'm actually super sad about this, both because I really respect this man and am upset that he's apparently so staunchly prolife that he won't even speak to prochoice orgs, and because it's going to suck to lose him as a reference (you should SEE the letters he's written for me) as most of the positions I'm applying for now are with the repro rights movement.
Any suggestions on how I should handle this? I'm assuming I need to contact the company to let them know...Should I email the hiring manager at let her know that one of my references has just today informed me that, while he is happy to act as a reference for my work, he is uncomfortable doing so for prochoice organizations due to his personal beliefs, and offer another reference?
Is there a better way to deal with this?
tia.
"You don't get to be all puke-face about your kid shooting your undead baby daddy when all you had to do was KEEP HIM IN THE FLUCKING HOUSE, LORI!" - doctorwho
Re: WWYD (job search related)
He knows he isn't the one that's going to be working there, doesn't he? I almost wanna say to try and deflect and tell him you already submitted everything but in the future you'd make a note of it.
Did you clarify that he's not just messing with you? Something along the lines of "I'm so sorry to hear you are not willing to serve as a reference. You've been a big proponent of my work in the past, and I was hoping that would continue. I will let the hiring manager know to contact the other references I have listed. Thank you for your support in the past."
I'd do that, see how he responds, and go from there.
Because his refusal to give you a reference for pro-choice orgs isn't going to change the fact that you've worked well with/for him in the past, nor is it going to change your career goals. So rather than go to the hiring company, make sure he's not just bluffing.
Whoa.
Definitely do NOT contact the potential employer. They rarely check references before the first interview anyway.
I would try calling the reference, apologizing that you were not clear when you spoke last week, and let him know that you sent your materials in already. See what he says.
Then based what he says, I'd decide whether or not to disclose this if you get an interview.
Perhaps you can get him to write you a generic letter, and if you get an interview, you can say, "Bob Smith is unavailable to speak and but has instead written a letter. If you'd like to speak to a third person, please call __"
So many mixed messages!
FTR, he's being serious. He's very progressive, but he's also very religious, which I guess is where this is coming from. I just wish he would have said something when I mentioned to him last week that I was applying at these types of places!
I asked my friend (the one who is going to call the hiring manager to recommend me), and he suggested that I contact the woman directly to ask her not to call the reference and to note that, while he is an eager reference (use his quote), I was unaware until today that he was anti-choice, and so wanted to replace him with someone more appropriate.
ESF, you're saying that this would be a bad idea?
I generally don't include references when I apply for a position, but the fact that this job positing specifically requested them as part of the initial application packet makes me think that they might call them before an interview...
"You don't get to be all puke-face about your kid shooting your undead baby daddy when all you had to do was KEEP HIM IN THE FLUCKING HOUSE, LORI!" - doctorwho
I'd call your reference, remind him of your conversation last week, and ask if he would be willing remain your reference for this job, but agree to find someone else for other pro-choice positions you apply for in the future. Make it clear to him that you've already submitted your materials and that you dont want to do anything to jeopardize this opportunity!
I think you have to do your best to get him to come around before going back and revising your application. Good luck!
I agree with the previous posters don't contact the company if at all possible. Contact the reference first and let him know that you already submitted his name and hopefully he would still be willing to help you and that you will consider his political and personal beliefs when submitting him for future references.
Honestly this is really unprofessional, are you sure you want him as a reference anyway? They are going to ask about your abilities as a worker, I don't see how any of that has to do with his personal beliefs.
Okay, so Reference #1 (retractor) isn't going to budge. He tells me he's still very happy to be a reference for me, but will not help me get a job in a pro-choice org.
I submitted three references total, and the first two are totally fine with the org, and will give great references.
My friend is telling me that I'll probably want to supplement at this point, though. I just spoke with Reference #4, who is thrilled to be a reference AND is fairly well known in the DV community nationwide - and the DV community is where this hiring manager focused her efforts for more than a decade before moving on to repro rights.
Does that change anyone's mind on whether or not I should retract / supplement my reference list?
"You don't get to be all puke-face about your kid shooting your undead baby daddy when all you had to do was KEEP HIM IN THE FLUCKING HOUSE, LORI!" - doctorwho
Did Reference #1 actually suggest you retract it? What did he propose you do?
I am firmly in the camp of no retraction, because I think the likelihood of them checking references before an interview is close to zero.
But if you are still concerned, I would call them from a blocked line (your cell should have the option to block the outgoing number, otherwise use a pay phone or something), and say, "Hello, I am preparing my application materials. One of my references will be travelling overseas and unreachable for a few weeks. When do you anticipate calling them?"
"You don't get to be all puke-face about your kid shooting your undead baby daddy when all you had to do was KEEP HIM IN THE FLUCKING HOUSE, LORI!" - doctorwho
1. Did you ask him what he suggests you do in this situation? Is he demanding you retract, or just that you not use him again in the future?
2. Nearly all the jobs I've applied for have asked for references with my application. Is this really the first time you've seen this? It's pretty standard. most of them ask for it so they have them all in the same place, not because they want to call them to decide who to interview. None of them have ever contacted the reference without first interviewing me, and most don't call until after a couple rounds, when they are deciding between two people.
3. That is why I suggested you do it from a blocked line as a potential applicant. Or have a friend that has no intention of applying do it
1. He's not demanding anything at this point, but I can tell he's upset about it.
2. Not a single job I've had since I've been a "grown-up" has asked for references with the initial application packet. Wait, let me amend that - the only jobs that have ever asked for this have been thinks like retail jobs, and fellowships. This is neither of those.
3. I might actually have a friend do this tomorrow.
Thx, ESF.
"You don't get to be all puke-face about your kid shooting your undead baby daddy when all you had to do was KEEP HIM IN THE FLUCKING HOUSE, LORI!" - doctorwho
I also think it's pretty standard because places like to look at the names and the associations of the references to gauge how impressive you are. The references are important not just because of what they will say about you, but because they are a list of who you know and who you can call to ask for a favor. And, I would say this is particularly true in DC for high prestige organizations.
I seriously cannot fathom that anyone would check references before an initial interview. You can tell within 3 mintues whether you like someone or not. Why potentially spend days playing phone tag with people, only to have the candidate show up and bomb?
Okay, okay. I needed that giggle, 2V. Thx.
"You don't get to be all puke-face about your kid shooting your undead baby daddy when all you had to do was KEEP HIM IN THE FLUCKING HOUSE, LORI!" - doctorwho
Yeah, folks in my industry may or may not call your refs, but they want to see who you list. Also, media folks will call somebody they know in a shop you have worked in to get the *real* lowdown on candidate X, Y, Z. I think that's how I got my last very unexpected raise and promotion. I was being recruited by an organization for a job I wasn't sure I wanted but felt like I needed to talk to them about it anyway because I didn't want to dismiss it out of hand and suddenly BAM! I'm called in and told I have a raise and a position upgrade. Um. OK?
Yeah, I just don't see why he can't say that he thinks highly of you, etc