Can we discuss this thread?

hindsight's_a_biotch · April 2012

http://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/1/64821957/ShowThread.aspx

Because I have several points I feel I could meander on for days plus, I think it would be interesting for us to work out considering our various religious and non-religious backgrounds.

vanillacourage · April 2012

-My FIL says that women's bodies have more problems so that women need to rely on men to help them, thus bringing the two sexes together and making them bond.

ETA: Also? Hilarious.

smerka:
I am not religious at all, but when I read your post I immediately thought about how when guys get kicked in the junk it supposedly hurts a lot.

loislayn · April 2012

Sounds very Duggar.

pixy_stix · April 2012

/ I don't know where to start.

I think women's bodies were designed BETTER than men. We're better equipped to handle starvation and extreme situations, we grow other human beings, and our lifespan is longer.

There are a ton of important women in the bible. Most are strong women who changed the course of history.

Kind of out there, but the lengths that men go to "keep the woman down" is also a testament to how strong we are. The reason we were treated as chattel is not because we weren't worthy of power, but because the men were scared of how powerful we could become.

pedantic_wench · April 2012

pixy_stix:

/ I don't know where to start.

I think women's bodies were designed BETTER than men. We're better equipped to handle starvation and extreme situations, we grow other human beings, and our lifespan is longer.

There are a ton of important women in the bible. Most are strong women who changed the course of history.

Kind of out there, but the lengths that men go to "keep the woman down" is also a testament to how strong we are. The reason we were treated as chattel is not because we weren't worthy of power, but because the men were scared of how powerful we could become.

for the fuuucking win

cookiemdough · April 2012

I was kind of left wondering if she was in this "bible study type thing" for social reasons or for religious ones because she doesn't seem to have a very deep level of understanding of how to view God's love. I have never viewed his love as demonstrated by how easy he makes life for me personally.

SMorriso · April 2012

SO much this:

pixy_stix:
/ I don't know where to start.
I think women's bodies were designed BETTER than men. We're better equipped to handle starvation and extreme situations, we grow other human beings, and our lifespan is longer.
There are a ton of important women in the bible. Most are strong women who changed the course of history.
Kind of out there, but the lengths that men go to "keep the woman down" is also a testament to how strong we are. The reason we were treated as chattel is not because we weren't worthy of power, but because the men were scared of how powerful we could become.

and this:

cookiemdough:
I was kind of left wondering if she was in this "bible study type thing" for social reasons or for religious ones because she doesn't seem to have a very deep level of understanding of how to view God's love. I have never viewed his love as demonstrated by how easy he makes life for me personally.

MeredithE · April 2012

Reading that thread immediately made me think of the phrase " I am that I am" . On the surface and as a Christian with a uterus those things seem pretty damn unfair. However, I believe God is Omnipotent and just as my parents did things as a kid which were incomprehensible at the time as an adult I find some of that stuff made perfect sense. I imagine that one day this and other things will make sense to me as well.

On the flip side, it seems as men really suffer sexual dysfunction at alarming rates when they get older. That's pretty dang awful aw well.......

pedantic_wench · April 2012

And I want to know what Bible she is reading where there aren't any important women who made life-altering decisions that affected the world around them.

hindsight's_a_biotch · April 2012

I'm simply blown away by the notion of ascribing to something you don't know shiit about. The woman can't possibly have read even a 10th of the Bible and yet she's chosen not just Christianity as a religion but that particular interpretation of it as her life compass.

It's baffling.

Also, I find the idea that Christianity is primarily responsible for the subjugation of women absolutely ridiculous. Historically, men are responsible. Full.Stop. There are very few cultures or religions that haven't done so, even among those who worshipped a mother goddess.

Hell, even Hinduism which purports to be peace, love, and dirty hippies has only recently come to conclusion that women might not be useless without husbands. At minimum, it's no longer cool to lock up 8 year old widows who don't bow to societal pressure and throw themselves on the funeral pyre of their 48 year old husband.

BAMFMrsB · April 2012

pedantic_wench:
pixy_stix:

Kind of out there, but the lengths that men go to "keep the woman down" is also a testament to how strong we are. The reason we were treated as chattel is not because we weren't worthy of power, but because the men were scared of how powerful we could become.

for the fuuucking win

Amen (that was punny).

MeredithE · April 2012

I don't know you guys. That thread about what REALLY happens to your body postpartum occasionally had me going Hmm

to the Lord. I was DONE at the incontinence and discoloring or treasured body parts. I am not even going to lie.

EloiseWeenieSkipperdee · April 2012

My first thought was that her Bible study would be more productive if they actually studied the Bible. She obviously has little comprehension of scripture, and I'm curious if her Bible study is based on the Bible, or a Christian workbook. I hope someone in her study reads the Bible and can point her towards scripture that goes against the lies she's been taught.

OscarQ · April 2012

My favorite response...

bluejayway:

Not gonna respond to the majority of this post, because...woah.

But BFing went smoothly for me. I've never had problems--16 months with DD1 and 6 weeks so far with my newborn. I'm atheist though, so perhaps Satan is just rewarding me for my huge boobs.

As for the rest of it, I feel sad for the OP. That's how she was raised and she's so in it that she can't even see it. I'm hoping she keeps questioning the religion she knows because it may lead her to a form of christianity that works better for her. Given her whole perspective though, I doubt that's going to happen.

cookiemdough · April 2012

OscarQ:
My favorite response...

bluejayway:

Not gonna respond to the majority of this post, because...woah.

But BFing went smoothly for me. I've never had problems--16 months with DD1 and 6 weeks so far with my newborn. I'm atheist though, so perhaps Satan is just rewarding me for my huge boobs.

As for the rest of it, I feel sad for the OP. That's how she was raised and she's so in it that she can't even see it. I'm hoping she keeps questioning the religion she knows because it may lead her to a form of christianity that works better for her. Given her whole perspective though, I doubt that's going to happen.

I really don't think Christianity is the focus of this group. I know a lot of people who go to church every week or do bible study because it is what their friends do and what they imagine is the right thing to do as part of the fitting into the "all-american family image". A guy I work with isn't even sure if he believes in God and attends weekly with his wife and is active in social events at their church. So yeah.

Heather R · April 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:

Also, I find the idea that Christianity is primarily responsible for the subjugation of women absolutely ridiculous. Historically, men are responsible. Full.Stop. There are very few cultures or religions that haven't done so, even among those who worshipped a mother goddess.

But it's not productive to turn it into a "they did it, too!" debate. The OP was talking about her uncertainties in Christianity; it makes sense that people (I) would say that Christianity as it has been taught has played a role in those uncertainties. It does hold some responsibility for subjugating Western women historically.

MKESweetie · April 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:
I'm simply blown away by the notion of ascribing to something you don't know shiit about. The woman can't possibly have read even a 10th of the Bible and yet she's chosen not just Christianity as a religion but that particular interpretation of it as her life compass.

It's baffling.

This doesn't really surprise me, actually. I think a lot of people are raised in a household that practices a religion. The children grow up, and continue to practice the same religion without much critical thought as to what the church is really teaching, or how what is being taught applies to the individual life.

I give the OP a lot of credit here. She's exploring her religion, asking questions with difficult answers, and trying to challenge some of the teachings she's likely spent 20+ years listening to.

I don't have an answer for her, but I give her a lot of credit for asking the questions.

Heather R · April 2012

MKESweetie:

I give the OP a lot of credit here. She's exploring her religion, asking questions with difficult answers, and trying to challenge some of the teachings she's likely spent 20+ years listening to.

I don't have an answer for her, but I give her a lot of credit for asking the questions.

I do as well. She is a known opponent of gay rights, so I wonder if she will question that position, as well.

LittleMoxie · April 2012

People that go to church despite not being sure they believe in God I think are a product of two things. 1) It's a social outlet and 2) people are still very concerned about the prejudice they may face if they are openly athiest. It's OK on this board, but I don't think that is reflective of real life in many parts of the country.

DruidPrincess · April 2012

I think her comment about what her FIL told her is very telling as to what kind of input she has relied on as far as her knowledge of these issues.

I told her to read the book Captivating, which I think any woman who remotely believes in God should read. We were, after all, the very last thing God created (the Bible tells me so).

And Esther, FFS. Freakin' ESTHER. Woman had it going ON.

mlwooten · April 2012

Maybe Couples Bible Study = Swingers Group and no one has told her yet.

Sibil · April 2012

Do you want a non religious perspective? I do think that women have it physically worse in many ways. There's just no cause or ljack of love that makes it so. I also see questions like that as part of a path to deconversion. Now, she may be happy with the religious answers that you all are providing and never go past that, but questions like those are in almost every deconversion story I've read/heard.

cookiemdough · April 2012

Sibil:
Do you want a non religious perspective? I do think that women have it physically worse in many ways. There's just no cause or ljack of love that makes it so. I also see questions like that as part of a path to deconversion. Now, she may be happy with the religious answers that you all are providing and never go past that, but questions like those are in almost every deconversion story I've read/heard.

Really? I understand not finding evidence that there is a God, or feeling that you have been dealt a bad hand at life (loss of a loved one, physical illness, etc.) that your faith would waiver leading to deconversion. but because women were stuck with menopause and childrearing God doesn't love us? I don't really get that. I also think the items she quoted vary so much from woman to woman. Yes all of us go through menopause but not everyone experiences or even wants to experience pregnancy and breastfeeding. I am having a hard time with her rationale.

+adamwife+ · April 2012

pixy_stix:

/ I don't know where to start.

I think women's bodies were designed BETTER than men. We're better equipped to handle starvation and extreme situations, we grow other human beings, and our lifespan is longer.

This is where I am.God designed my body so that I get to have babies and experience everything that comes with that. I know some women see that as a burden, but I totally think it is a gift from God. I am glad to be a woman even if simply for that reason.

msmerymac · April 2012

pedantic_wench:
And I want to know what Bible she is reading where there aren't any important women who made life-altering decisions that affected the world around them.

Or who wrote books of the bible.

Sibil · April 2012

cookiemdough:
Sibil:
Do you want a non religious perspective? I do think that women have it physically worse in many ways. There's just no cause or ljack of love that makes it so. I also see questions like that as part of a path to deconversion. Now, she may be happy with the religious answers that you all are providing and never go past that, but questions like those are in almost every deconversion story I've read/heard.
Really? I understand not finding evidence that there is a God, or feeling that you have been dealt a bad hand at life (loss of a loved one, physical illness, etc.) that your faith would waiver leading to deconversion. but because women were stuck with menopause and childrearing God doesn't love us? I don't really get that. I also think the items she quoted vary so much from woman to woman. Yes all of us go through menopause but not everyone experiences or even wants to experience pregnancy and breastfeeding. I am having a hard time with her rationale.

I don't mean the exact issue she's addressing could lead to deconversion at all, but kind of the way she's thinking about it. It's hard to explain unless you've read all these deconversion stories. There's just a similar thread that I'm picking up on. More like a sign that she's starting to realize what she's learned isn't true, and now she's going to look at all of it with a more critical eye.

Like I said, I don't think it's an automatic end, but it's a similar beginning. Maybe I notice that b/c I'm only reading stories like those on no longer quivering and similar blogs, so I never read from people who had the same questions yet remained in the faith.

2Vermont · April 2012

I also think it's unfortunate that she feels this way. God loves men and women equally. Also, love doesn't necessarily mean=easier life with no suffering. If that was the case, I guess God must hate men....you know, since He had His Son suffer on a Cross.

Honestly, I hate the men vs women rhetoric.

Can we discuss this thread?

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