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dealing w/ tonight - advice
I'm seeing that friend that I had a fight with about a month ago tonight. I have no idea how it's going to go, I suspect not much has changed and that she hasn't really reflected on what happened. I am anxious about it because I just don't want to "get stuck" sitting there listening to her "vent" or get stuck back in our old routine.
I feel bad that I will have to reiterate my point from last time and that probably leaves this friendship no where to go because I am in such a different place in life. I don't know how to stay neutral, while not putting her down for where she is in life, but being honest about where I am. She takes everything I say personally - even if it has nothing to do with her. This is one of the most frustrating things about her.
How do I stay cool and listen to what she has to say, while not getting sucked back in and making sure I drive my point home about where I am and what I want out of a friendship? I'm assuming we're going to have a similar ending to the conversation we had a month ago.
Honestly - I don't know why I agreed to see her at all again. I think a tiny piece of me hopes that she took something away from what I said before, but I am not very optimistic that she did.
I think I basically know what I need to do here, but some other constructive advice would be helpful to lessen my nerves about the whole situation.
Re: dealing w/ tonight - advice
I don't know if I read the original about this or not (I don't have the memory that some women around here seem to have!).
Are you expecting to talk about "the issue", or are you worried about the general conversation?
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I don't know the backstory on this, but I have a friend I've recently had a "discussion" with. She's the human Eeyore, constantly whining/venting/complaining and anytime you give her advice as to why her behavior leads her to problems and drama every time, she can't deal. Her negativity and issues become the focus of all our interactions and she taints everything.
So,I suggested we redirect our dynamic - no more of the negativity/venting and craziness cycle and she was hugely upset because some other friends just happened to propose the same idea and she feels we're all wrong, etc...
Sometimes your friendships run their course, not every friend is one for the long haul. I suppose the best thing to do is look at it like this: is this person good TO me and FOR me? Does she take more from you than she gives?
You still have time to cancel, just saying....
ECB - Here's the OP. You'll have to scroll down for my description of the events as they unfolded. I'm mainly concerned about talking about what happened, but the talk about what happened reflects how we move forward (if we can?) in the friendship.
http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/64342683.aspx?MsdVisit=1
I'm expecting she will want to gloss over it and just resume things like how they were, which may be an inaccurate expectation on my part, but it's a hunch.
Thanks for the link. That helped.
My take...
If she actually talks about the fight, I'd just try to reiterate to her that you don't mean to judge her, that you want to be there for her, but you simply can't have your friendship revolve around her needing to vent (although there is probably a nicer way to say that!). YOu want to help her, but if she isn't willing to help herself, you can't just sit there and be a sounding board.
If she glosses over it and falls back into the "old ways", I don't know how concerned I'd be about sparing her feelings! I might use that as an opportunity to bring up the issue myself and just say "Friend, I love you, I want to be here for you - but this is what I'm talking about. I can't just sit here and listen to this when you aren't going to ever DO anything about it. It exhausts me.".
And yes- she'll get pissed off. But it kind of seems like you're at a point where you aren't going to be too sad if you all go your seperate ways.
I dont know. Easier said than done. I just dont' know what patience I'd have if nothing changes.
But, hey, you never know. Maybe she'll surprise you and she'll just talk aobut life in general and not need to "vent".
Good luck.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Thanks - I don't want her to just start hanging out and pretending like nothing happened and I fear that's exactly what will happen tonight.
I said a lot of things that I have wanted to say to her the last time we hung out because I want the dynamic to change. If she doesn't address them or want to discuss them, I feel like I must make a statement that I'm ready to move on. Honestly, I have spent so much of my time sitting and listening to her problems, her mother's problems, her family's problems, etc. that I am exhausted. I recognize that in the beginning of our friendship I did the same, but now I don't want to do that anymore. I want to have a more positive and healthy friendship, but I can't expect her to change just because I have.
I think I have a bad attitude about this before I even get there.
ETA - I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't want to help her or listen to her about these same things anymore. I think that's probably why I've reached my limit.
It seems I'm going to be in the minority here but I think if you are even going to bother seeing her you have to do so with an open mind. If you decide how things are going to go before you even get there you are setting yourself up for things to go badly. Situations and people have a way of living up to our preconceived expectations, ya know?
Now, if you are completely 100% sure that things are just going to be exactly as they were before, cancel.
You are right kaneen. it's hard to keep an open mind with 4 years of history with this dynamic though.
So the basic nature of the friendship, for her, is that she gets to dump all her woes on you while you have to listen and if you don't listen long enough or hard enough, you're the bad guy? Sigh.
I wouldn't categorize this as an actual friendship. This is the 'you get to be the audience for my monologues' kind of 'friendship'. If you want to save this friendship or turn it into something satisfying for the both of you, maybe you can just tell her that you want to limit bitchh sessions to once a month, the rest of the time it has to be pleasant. Or an hour a week, or whatever. It would help, too, if you learned some stock lines to deflect her complaints, such as "Oh, you are so smart; I know you'll figure this out!" big smile; or "Oh, my! What are you going to do about that? I don't have a clue what would work!" worried smile; or "oh, you've managed to get along with that this far, I'm sure you'll keep swimming through it!" big smile; all followed with "Let's talk about something cheerful! Did I tell you my mom is feeling better? why don't we have lunch with her on Saturday".
Frankly I would not want to save this friendship (snort at the term) and would drop this person like a hot potato. Not sure why you need a special dinner for that, but if that's what she needs, have at it; just don't get guilted into a long drawn out battle. Closure is highly overrated.
ITA with all this.
Oh, I get that, trust me. If it were me I probably wouldn't have planned the dinner to start with. I'm just saying that if you DO go, do so with an open mind.
Doesn't mean things are going to be any different than what you are currently expecting. It just means that if you don't have an open mind there isn't really even the possibility of things going well.
I agree with Kaneen, go into it with an open mind and let her tell you however she feels. I think you will get a good idea from that whether she wants to change the dyanmic also or whether she just wants to convince you're wrong and wronged her. At least if she is unwilling to change the friendship giving her an opportunity to put her feelings out there and be heard may take some of the sting out of the rejection and may keep bitter or hard feelings from forming. And if you wind up in the same place later you can re initiate the friendship without hard feelings.
In your OP you said this: " I don't judge her on the way she feels, I agree with most of what she says and can understand why she feels the way she does, but I guess I do judge (I'm not sure that's even the right term) her because she doesn't do anything about it. She says she uses our friendship as a way to vent her problems, but I just get frustrated because she complains about the same things all the time. I don't want a friendship like this - I want to go out with her, talk about ourselves and our lives and challenge each other to think in new ways and just have a good time and be myself."
I think that is a very well thought out and tactful reply. If she rehashes it tonight I would just explain that you know why she feels the way she does and you agree with how she feels, but it is hard for you to keep being her ear to vent when you care about her and want to support her in making positive changes so she can be happier. I think if you flip it so it's about her and how you care for her she may be more receptive.
Personally, when I am going through a bad spot I can veer towards only reaching out to people to vent. I realized I was doing this recently and have made a conscious decision to get more involved in my friends' lives on their terms and to be a better cheerleader. So I do think people can take that kind of feedback to heart and change for the better, I hope she does.
Yes I agree with Sue sue as well. This relationship currently feels exactly how Sue sue describes - we hang out and she just talks at me for two hours and I try to say what I think, she ignores or agrees and literally keeps talking. I even developed a lot of those line Sue sue to respond to her since my thoughts to her never seemed to register.
I feel that I have contributed to this dynamic for so long that perhaps by finally saying how I feel and getting it in the open, there is a possibility for change. I think it's slim, but I guess I'd like to at least see before I write the relationship off completely. I guess that's the reason for the dinner.
If she needs someone to biitch to so badly without the biitchee needing anything in return, she should see a shrink.
Don't be her shrink.
I totally, totally get where you're coming from with this. I had to drop a friendship years ago for something similar. She used me emotionally until I had nothing left to give to her, let alone anyone else. It was draining and in no way a two-way thing. It's really difficult to let years of friendship go, but if you're agonizing over something that should be simple, like a dinner with an old friend, you know what to do already.
That link helped a lot. I couldn't remember the backstory.
All I have is, good luck tonight. I'm dealing with something similar (ok, almost exactly the same but a bit more tricky) myself, so I get what you're going through.
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
Ugh DL I went through a similar sitch and ended up getting rid of the friend, so I'm sure you can guess what my advice is. That doesn't make it easy, but I do think it's the right thing to do. This girl is not a friend to you.
Good luck!
You can do this DL. You are very clear about what you want. It's nice of you to give her a second (third, fourth, fifth?) chance. You know what you want. If tonight demonstrates that you won't get it, this is it. No more chances.
As for tonight, if she starts to go down the 'woe is me' path, change the subject. To anything. Don't allow her to go there. There's a good chance she will want to break up with you by the end because what kind of friend doesn't want to listen to another friend's problems. lol. Seriously though, you've already told her where you stand. I don't see any reason for you to repeat yourself. Just do your best to control the situation and make it clear that you meant exactly what you said.
See how it goes. If she dumps on you. I would basically let it all get out in the open towards the end of the dinner. She may not realize how much of a downer she is when with you.
It may be that you are the only person she feels comfortable opening up to-- but if it is THAT much then she needs to seek the help of a clergy person or shrink. Its one thing to get things off your chest every now and then. Its another to constantly dump on a friend as opposed to have fun.
I hope things go better than you expect. If not, then I would have it out in a controlled way at the end of the dinner, and then vow (to myself) to never accept another invitation to hang out with said person again. Friendships should not be a drain on your energy or life. They should be a joy, and support.