International Nesties
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
s/o Being Judged
The discussion of friends and family judging got me thinking and curious...
What's the biggest misconception your f&f have about your choice/decision/forced move abroad?
Does it bother you or is it just kind of meh?
Re: s/o Being Judged
For me, it's that I'm hangin' at a Tuscan spa 24/7.
Don't get me wrong, I've had some awesome trips, vacations, experiences living here that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to have living back in the States (b/w time, cost, etc). But it's not a freakin' vacation-- my toilets overflow here and I get to work on weekends sometimes too. Neither situation is particularly fun or glam... ok, well, the weekends work might be, I do put on Prada to sit alone in my office, b/c it is Italy
.
Does it bother me? My last sarcastic comment aside, not too much. It's kind of annoying, but more 'meh' than truly upsetting.
I'm having trouble lately with friends and family not understanding how much time and effort (and money) traveling is for us.
They don't understand why we can't be at every event, or why we're not TTC right away. They think I can just do whatever without planning. Like it's such an easy lifestyle.
And, of course, if you ever suggest THEY come visit US they say, "Oh no, that's too expensive" or "I couldn't be on a plane for that long."
There's been mention of getting this out of our system.
Then there's a family member who, when she heard we were moving abroad which she always knew I wanted to do, strongly implied that we are only doing this at a huge personal cost and sacrifice and won't have a decent standard of living.
For the most part it is kinda meh. The family member has made comments my whole life that have implied that she thinks that things can't possibly ever be going well for me. Actually, she makes things up all the time. So, that comment itself doesn't bother me because it's just how she is.
The most "annoying" thing is how with any compliment or criticism I have of my life here or back in the states, I feel they take it personally. If I like something here, they have to tell me how it "actually" is in the states (as if I don't already know). If I criticize something here, I could just avoid that thing by being in the states. There's just simply some things I like here more than others and same in the states. They're different. I try not to mention things directly anymore.
Most people don't understand that living in England does NOT mean we live in London. I'm sick of correcting people....now when they ask "how's London?" I just smile and say "rainy." Not a lie. I watch the weather report. It is rainy in London. I'm just not there.
Yeah, I think people don't understand that we're not on vacation, and that we do actually work/go to school full time, and that taking trips home is EXPENSIVE and difficult.
Most of my family and friends have been great, but there are those two or three people that are all "OMG, how can you live in a country where women are sooo oppressed? They must be so uneducated and the culture must be so backwards." It's interesting that my sister that lives and preaches the most liberal lifestyle (and I consider myself pretty liberal too) is the most closed-minded about where we have moved.
More than anything I am so over the judgement that we are somehow bad parents for choosing to raise our kids abroad. I get that it's not for everyone. I don't think my way is better than theirs, just different. Why do other people feel the need to justify their choices by putting down mine?
This. And people dont take into consideration that by living abroad, I had to make some trade-offs. Maybe, I get to travel a lot but I think most people back at home would be surprised at how small my house it. Yeah. traveling is cool, but a lot of my friends/family get to live in big, beautiful houses.
Also, just a side not but I think it is funny how people on other boards ask if it okay to raise a kid in a 2 bedroom flat. I am confused by all this. How is it bad to have kids living in a flat??
Having just gotten married, it was a very difficult engagement. Very, very nasty things were said by people who mean a lot to me:
"You're just marrying him because he's exotic"
"Remember when you went to Mexico and your brother told you not to meet men? The same applied to Spain."
"I had a friend who married a Swedish man. They're divorced."
The worst part is that I know a family member was venting irrational, made-up fears to other family members and they've judged DH and me based upon lies/misconceptions. It still hurts.
I was expected to return from Spain, marry a nice all-American boy, live not that far away, and take all the family objects that they had been saving for me (furniture, pots and pans, etc.) for years.
I have to remember that there's a medical reason behind the irrationality (brain aneurysms SUCK) but it hurt. A lot. I'm still trying to get over it.
Holy Horrible! I'm so sorry things were that... screwed up!
No words for comment number one (other than that's so straight up bigoted it's almost amusing, in a horrific kind of way).
As for point 2, I'd like to note, for the record, I have several friends who married American men and are.... wait for it... divorced. J@sus!
We haven't been judged very much for living overseas, but we are fortunate to be able to go home for big events, Christmas, graduations, etc.
I would say our friends sometimes make comments 'oh, I could never live that far from my family' implying that we are bad people for living more than 10 minutes away from our family. But overall, we have been less judged, or at least people have been less vocal.
Things have, thankfully, calmed down and seem to be better now that our getting married is a fact, not a possibility. I still get kind of scared when I go home, wondering what will be said. I'm thankful for my friends, I let them know what went down and they were amazing.
As for the bigoted issue, welcome to my hometown.
I'm really sorry about this! The people that you love the most can also hurt you like no other, I'll never understand why they do it.
I think we are mostly admired for having moved. My side of the family has always known I was going to move to NYC one day, since those were some of the first words out of my mouth. On one hand they never commented negatively when we actually moved, at least not to my face, and on the other hand for the first few years I had the clear impression that they were expecting us to fail in a matter of months and move back. That never happened of course so by now they've let it go. Our friends instead have always been supportive, I think most of them would have liked to have done the same and always show respect for what we've been through.
I'm fairly new to the whole international thing, but I'm tired of family, friends, acquaintances, etc. all trying to take me aside and ask if I *really* like it there and if I am doing OK. Like they all think I'm going to break down and say I hate it. They seem genuinely surprised that I could like it there because they "just can't imagine living in a place so different." That's fine, then don't ever do it. We like it. We had to fly home so DH could get a new visa and I stayed a little longer to take care of some other things and it feels like I am playing defense whenever people want to talk about China. I can't wait to go home. (to China! Yes family, my home is in China now.)
Everyone seems to think my life is full of beach time, surf and beer. pfft. It's too dang hot for the beach, sand gets into where sand shouldn't be and I hate beer.
As for the snide comments, I don't get too much if it. On my mom's side, I'm the 4th generation to have lived abroad for an extended period of time. They are just all thrilled that I am experiencing some of the same things they did. My mom's fav picture is of us in the Alps. I'm wearing a sweater that mom had custom made for her when she was on vacation in the Alps when she was 13 (was going to school in Germany).
My dad's side of the family ... I got a few "we left Italy to give our family a better life and now you're leaving" comments. Dad finally pointed out that they wouldn't be in the states if they hadn't left their family at some point too. The irony of it is still a bit lost on them.
This gets my goat every time. I don't think city kids are feeling "abused" because they don't live in a 2700 square foot house. The worst part is that some kids end up buying into their parents' mentality. When I got to college, I met people who asked, in all seriousness, "what it was like" to grow up sharing a wall with my neighbors and they acted like I must have been scarred by it or something.
As for the actual question, I think most of my NY friends think it's a nice change of pace for us that we're here, but their general assumptions about city living in Europe are, for the most part, correct, either because they've been to Paris or because they figure it's kind of like New York in some of the most basic ways. Few people really stop to think how stressful an international move can be on a family, but I can't blame them for that. One of the only friends I truly complain to when I'm having a rough day moved to NY from Istanbul a few years ago, so she gets it. Anyone else I try to say anything to responds, "but you're in Paris!!!!" She tends to say things more like, "every city in the world sucks when you're having a bad day."
Elenetxu, this makes me so angry on your behalf. My mother is a little more subtle, but it still hurts. After 45 or so years living in the U.S., she refers to DH as "americano pero nice" (nice pronounced more like nais). As if a) all other americanos are NOT nice??? and b) as if being americano would ordinarily be held against him, but he has somehow redeemed himself.
I'm not sure if people think living here is a permanent vacation, but I get annoyed with how close-minded friends and family back "home" can be. My closest friend at home was in shock when I told her we hang our laundry in a communal area in our (small) apartment complex. She said "even your underwear?!" yes, even our underwear. It's not like I go to the drying room to check out other people's underwear, I doubt any of my neighboors are either. She also constantly asks when we'll buy a house. Probably never, this is Switzerland, our 2 bedroom apt costs more than your 5 bedroom house.
Even though she is my closest friend, I really do have to bite my tongue sometimes with her. As some of your might remember, this past Fall my DH and I went through a rough patch, when I was home this January I confided in her about it. One thing she said was "you've always been chasing a dream in Europe, never wanting to let the adventure end, you need to come home and have a norma life." As if my marriage and life here aren't imporant or "normal".
Exactly! I get the same thing in Rome whenever they ask me if I'm happy to be there. Of course I'm happy to be with my mom and dad and everything that's forever familiar to me but when it's over I'm even happier to go back HOME to NY!!
I still haven't made my move, and I think from a lot of friends there's a thought I may not do it. I was talking to one old college friend I only talk to ocassionaly and I mentioned how it was coming along and she said, "You're moving to India?"
"Yes," I said, "Didn't I tell you that last time?"
"Yeah, but I guess I didn't think you would really do it."
And I think a lot of people may still feel that way. I've gotten a lot of ignorance as well. My mom is convinced I'll contract some exotic disease and die (cholera anyone?) while on "the sub continent". Really, Mom? This isn't Victorian times. I'm not saying I will never get sick, but they do have doctors there. I'm going to be in a city of 2 million, sheesh.
And there's a lot of America is better bias.. but truth be told, I've been unemployed most of the last four years of my life since graduating college. India probably offers more opportunities for our future than America. I still love the USA, don't get me wrong, but it's got its drawbacks, so I don't necessarily think America wins in a side by side comparison.
"I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels." -Isaiah 61:10 NKJV