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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Does feeling like a failure at something=
you judging others as a failure for the same thing? (This can be kid-related or not.)
The board has been slow since I logged on this morning, so I'm stirring the pot here. Just read through the 29 responses to the NYT article post below that came up before I answered and saw all the debate about the comment "I would feel like a failure if..."
Discuss.
Re: Does feeling like a failure at something=
Do you mean:
I would feel like a failure if I had never traveled, but I know that is not everyone's dream. So if my BFF had never traveled I wouldn't judge her the way I would judge myself.
Yes, I picked something really simple :-)
Yes, that's what I mean. But you qualified it with "but I know that is not everyone's dream."
So if you don't qualify it, does it just mean you are a judgmental a$$? As in, if I say "I would feel like a failure if DD didn't learn to speak French this year," then I need to follow it with exactly what I mean or who it wouldn't apply to?
To me, at least, you wouldn't have to follow it with anything because you had already said who you applied it to when you used "I". If you had said "anyone should feel like a failure ... " then I might need you to add who you meant.
For some reason, this question is really confusing me. I think it's because I want to say that feeling like a failure at something that you have no true control over or is so far away that things could change is almost just setting yourself up for disaster. And that's more your bad than mine. But, then it's also a sense of if you are saying it to yourself, you can just change your mind about feeling like a failure about it if you aren't successful.
But are you asking if it makes sense to question someone else's "I would feel like a failure..." statement since it's a personal thing?
Or does it bother someone more if they read an "I would feel like a failure..." statement if they personally failed at that thing? Like, if my kid didn't learn to speak french after a year of living Paris and I saw your statement, would I take it more personally/think you're being judgmental? It really depends on the statement and how I feel about it personally, I suppose. Like, if I did a crazy amount of things to try to get my kid to learn French and it didn't happen, I would probably mention not to get your hopes too high up. However, if you said that you know all these people who failed at it and that you aren't going to fail at it, I would think it's more judgmental. Does that make sense? Whether I take it personally or not, still depends on the issue.
For example, I REALLY love and think everyone should travel. But as AMrs commented, it's not for everyone. I get that. Same with living abroad. But, I did get offended once when someone who was studying abroad went home after 1 week (of a 4 week program) because they realized that family is everything to them. And while part of me knows that they aren't me, it still bothered me because it seemed to imply that those that didn't live closer to home didn't feel the same about their own family. It's more of a personal issue to me that I know people feel that I must not be close to my family because I'm abroad, but I actually don't feel like we aren't close at all. Yet, I still feel bad about it. Especially since I'm an only child and I moved while pregnant with my first. I'm talking in circles. So even though their need to go back to the US was in no way aimed at me, there was something in how she said it that hit a nerve.
I don't know, I think a lot of people who say things like "I would feel like a failure if..." are actually pointing their finger at other people. Like if I were talking to someone who had never traveled and said, "Well, I know I would feel like I failure if I had never traveled, but it's great that you're ok with it," then that is a pretty thinly veiled judgment of what you think of their life.
I would feel like a failure if I didn't contribute financially to our family. I feel like my parents spent a heck of a lot of money for my undergrad education, and I invested a lot of time, effort, and some money into my graduate education. If I ended up not using any of it to make money, I would feel like a failure.
"I would feel like a failure if I couldn't get by in the local language after a year living in X."
- Maybe it doesn't sound judgy if you know the person pushes herself and studies a lot.
- Maybe it does sound judgy if there's someone who has openly said she doesn't feel the need to learn the local language.
"I would feel like a failure if I ever got divorced."
- Maybe it isn't judgy. It could be a statement of fact, since some people feel this way (heck, I kind of feel like a failure for this)
- Maybe it is judgy if it's in a thread about someone thinking of leaving her husband.
I do think that "would feel like a failure if" has more judgy potential than "feel like a failure" or "will feel like a failure if." I don't know if that's just me.
"I feel like a failure that I failed the driving test."
Does this sound judgy? I don't think it does, but maybe I'm wrong?
"I will feel like a failure if I fail the driving test."
To me, this implies that it's a tangible concern, and that it's a statement only about me. However, I can see how it could be interpreted as a subtle stab that someone else isn't taking it seriously enough (depending on the context).
"I would have felt like a failure if I'd failed the driving test."
The past-tense version of the above. Probably just a statement that it was a concern, but in the end it worked out. But again, potentially a subtle jab in the wrong context.
"I would feel like a failure if I failed the driving test."
I find this version has the most judgy potential. It somehow implies that the person has never been in that situation, and would not have been happy with that end result had she been. It could just be a statement of fact, but it could easily be a thinly-veiled judgement. I think the key is that unlike the above cases, the person has never been in the given situation, and stating an opinion in those cases often riles up feathers.
I was at the supermarket yesterday and above the scale was a sign that read: Scale is for weighing item's only.
I would feel like a failure if I didn't know how to use the poor Saxon Genitive.
I have no idea what a Saxon Genitive is, but I do know that that sentence on the scale was wrong.
I'm not a SAHM, but it's something I've consider as and when we have kids, and Kelly's statement made me feel a bit defensive too.
I think part of why is because I feel there may be a grain of truth in it--or it plays on my own fears and feelings about myself--rather than that I feel Kelly would judge me for it.
And, I think one could argue that a college education is really useful for being a SAHM. I certainly learned a lot in college that would help--things about the world that I look forward to sharing with my kid, things about myself, things about kids (psych stuff, etc).
My MIL once told me that she thought raising kids was the most important thing in life, so whoever has the MOST education should do it. I don't like the unequivocal, hard-and-fast rule aspect of that, but I appreciate her belief in the value of education and child-rearing, especially as it runs counter to what I would expect to hear from many whose opinions I value.
Here's two statements on the original topic:
I would feel like a failure to give up my career to be a SAHM.
I would feel like a failure to let someone else take care of my kids.
(Yeah, I'm screwed.)
Thanks :-) It's true - this is one of those things that really is personal. I have friends who are highly educated and SAHMs and I don't judge them at all. I just feel like personally, I would have to do a lot of self-convincing that I was doing it for the good of my children and that it was ok for DH to be the sole income.
Just wanted to clarify that sometimes I think when we respond, it's because people have hit on our own insecurities, rather than because they are judgypants. Kelly =/= judgypants.