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How come men consider themselves pigs?
By that I mean that it's something they actually say themselves. I work with mainly guys and I get to see that other side that maybe all guys have? My boss will joke and say that "they are all pigs to some degree". Please don't misunderstand me because I consider myself one of the guys and they are all very respectful and couldn't be nicer to me. I laugh at their behavior all the time so this is more a question out of curiosity:)
They are all married but will comment and talk about other girls looks and I will join in at times. But I feel like I've been naive in my way of thinking that "the good guys" never talk or comment about other women and expected my own man to be somewhat a saint. Working with guys have made me open my eyes to how guys can be and that it doesn't mean they are cheating, but more like "boys will be boys" I guess?!
I do have a question though. This is not a co worker of mine but a friend of a co worker that I heard this from. I get to hear all stories and this is one of them. His friend is married but not happily married. So it sounds like he's seeing girls on the side instead of getting out of the marriage. Now, if his friend is engaged in conversations about this and is advising him to go about these meetings with girls, does that make him someone who would cheat or is he just "being a typical guy" and it doesn't necessarily mean he would cheat himself?
This is someone that I thought had morals and values and I was just surprised to find out that this guy is promoting this kind of behavior. Although I know that he's also told him to get out of the marriage so it's not like he hasn't tried. But I was kind of taken by the fact that he involved himself in supporting this kind of immoral behavior. So I can't help to change how I now look at him. Am I being too judgemental and wrong for doing that? How would you look at it and do you agree that guys really have two sides to them? One with "the boyz" and one with the wifey??
Re: How come men consider themselves pigs?
I think the "culture" for the lack of a better word is different, sure. For example a woman would be more likely to urge her friend to seek counseling in a troubled marriage or divorce if it was that bad. Very few would suggest cheating or condone it. This all leads back to the social double standard of women being "sluts" if they sleep with other men/many men and guys having little social recourse.
That said, I do think many nice guys also say things that women would consider douchey or obnoxious. DH is a "nice guy" but I seriously doubt if all his coworkers are talking about something he's going to sit mute until the conversation moves to a new topic. The line that separates a nice guy from a jerk, though, is a nice guy will never talk about his GF/fiance/wife to his coworkers when it comes to anything personal (her body/sex/etc.) out of his respect for her and the relationship.
I don't think there are two sides to a good guy, I think they're just smart enough to know that their wife doesn't want to hear about some things they're thinking.
There is a lot going on with your post...
I think its inappropriate for coworkers to be standing around talking sexy shop about women at work. Even if it is an all male environment. I was one of the handful of women working appliance repair at my company. Yes, I saw douchiness of the highest order with some of the dudes. I also felt like I needed to bleach my ears sometimes. I did say something though when some guy was talking about a waitresses arse.
He made his comment and then I said, "Well, I wonder if she is busy talking to the cook about your sorry arse right now? Oh wait..." He canned it after that. HR had all kinds of workshops and shyt. Not every man I worked with was a pig. There were some really awesome, I would call "Family men" . They were polite, got the job done on time and well. They always had nice things to say to you (that weren't skeevy) and would help you if you needed it. I would say 1/3 of the men at our shop were like that.
Also, about the man that was encouraging his friend's affair. A bad marriage is a still a marriage until the ink on the divorce decree is dry. I would think that both the cheater and the encourager of the cheater are douches.
I think my husband might smirk a bit at insinuations, but flat out inappropriate behavior like you describe would get him a talkin' to or fired-- so I am confident that he keeps work at work.
There is no such thing as "boys will be boys" because there is no generalized behavior for ALL men just as there is none for women. You choose to act how you will and just because there are a lot of men (and women as well) who are going to lie and cheat and act inappropriately, doesn't mean it is an automatic "pass" for everyone to act in that way.
The cheater and the friend encouraging him are both aassholes and while the encouraging friend might not be a cheater himself, he is an amoral aasshole encouraging someone else to cheat. This behavior isn't something you just write off and say "boys will be boys", thats enabling and condoning their behavior.
You can stop encouraging douchey behavior by not joining in on commenting on other women. You're doing the other women, the men and yourself a disservice by trying to be "one of the boys" or enabling them to make inappropriate comments in the workplace about your fellow women coworkers.
It's interesting to hear your point of views on this. Maybe I've been around guys too long to think it's ok? But it's not as bad as I made it sound like. My boss actually joked one time that it's nice to have a woman around because otherwise it gets to be too much "boy talk". So them talking or commenting on women is not just out of the blue.
You are right about my co workers friend who is about to cheat. I can't get over the fact that he is actually condoning it like you said. I never thought that from this guy and I look at him in a different way now. BUT I have also learned that men seem to sometimes live through other men with a let's say "interesting life" without having to do it themselves. That doesn't necessarily mean that they would do that themselves BUT doesn't take away the fact that he is making something bad ok.
I've worked so long around men and I've been hit on from men I never thought would hit on me so it's hard to not become cynical. Makes you wonder if anyone is faithful and where do yo draw the line between flirtatious and faitthful.
Thanks for chiming in since I find this subject of men/boys interesting. They just never really grow up, do they?
You may have rationalized away some offensive beliefs/behaviors based on the workplace culture where you are, but TBH you so casually projecting those beliefs/behaviors on all 3+ billion men in the world is pretty offensive (and achingly ignorant) in and of itself.
So, it sounds to me as if you yourself fit right in there with the rest of the sty.
You're a fcucking moron. Get out.
You are TOTALLY right!
my dh and I had a conversation about something like this.... he and his friends will comment about women, but never about their own or each others wives. Usually it is something that is quite obvious to everyone, including women.
I know my DH would tell a cheating friend that it is wrong and that he should either work on the marriage or get out of it instead of seeing if the grass is greener on the other side. This came up because my DH and his ex were friends with another couple. DH remained friendly with the guy and played golf with him. at some point teh guys wife didnt want him hanging with DH anymore so the guy stopped. Sometime after that I heard that they split because the guy was cheating on her....which wasnt going on when DH was friends with him. IF she hadnt been such a B*tch about them hanging out, I am sure DH would have said something to him when it started. But.... wifey didnt think he should be hanging with her friend's ex .
I am NOT saying he wouldnt have cheated, but MAYBE things could have turned out differently!
"Boys will be boys" is just like "It's more likely to be hit by a terrorist than get married after the age of 40". Another chauvinistic saying created for dumb women to accept the douches that the rest of the world won't have anything to do with.
Seriously, it is 2012, stop living in the stone age and expect more from the people around you.
You didn't really use this and the "boys will be boys" lines on a board who hate these terms, did you?
Yuck.
You know who you are.
Wait, you probably don't.