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Tax and FBARA: Record number of Americans renounce citizenship last year

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47064295 

Exert:  "Americans abroad are terrified. We've had people pay tens of thousands of dollars in fines. We've had people . pay huge amounts of back taxes," she says. "Up to this point, we never heard of anyone renouncing, or if they did, they didn't talk about it," says Serrato, who says her group does not advocate renunciation.

"Now," she says, "we're seeing a lot of people speak openly about it and come to us for information."

Re: Tax and FBARA: Record number of Americans renounce citizenship last year

  • http://www.cnbc.com/id/47064295

    Use brackets [these] instead to make it clicky ;)

     

  • imageExpatPumpkin:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47064295

    Use brackets [these] instead to make it clicky ;)

     

    I've clearly been away from the Nest for too long. 

  • Renunciation will cost you something like $500 or $1000.  It used to be free!

    I cannot say this enough: F U, America! 

    image
  • neepsneeps member
    Seventh Anniversary Combo Breaker

    The IRS always gets the last laugh. If you cannot certify that you have complied with all IRS requirements for the 5 years prior to your expatriation date, you become a certified expatriate. Which thanks to IRS code section 887A (passed by those crooks in Congress as part of the HEART law) means you are now subject to income tax on the net unrealized gain on your world-wide property.

    Which in plain English means that they basically say what was all your property worth the day before you renounced? Then pretend you sold it all that day and tax you on the gain.

    And you can't forget to file Form 8854 with the IRS. 

    If giving up my US citizenship wouldn't render me stateless I would so do it.

    Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
  • imageneeps:

    The IRS always gets the last laugh. If you cannot certify that you have complied with all IRS requirements for the 5 years prior to your expatriation date, you become a certified expatriate. Which thanks to IRS code section 887A (passed by those crooks in Congress as part of the HEART law) means you are now subject to income tax on the net unrealized gain on your world-wide property.

    Which in plain English means that they basically say what was all your property worth the day before you renounced? Then pretend you sold it all that day and tax you on the gain.

    And you can't forget to file Form 8854 with the IRS. 

    If giving up my US citizenship wouldn't render me stateless I would so do it.

    This also applies if your average income for the five years preceding the renunciation was $145,000.
  • neepsneeps member
    Seventh Anniversary Combo Breaker
    imagePublius:
    imageneeps:

    The IRS always gets the last laugh. If you cannot certify that you have complied with all IRS requirements for the 5 years prior to your expatriation date, you become a certified expatriate. Which thanks to IRS code section 887A (passed by those crooks in Congress as part of the HEART law) means you are now subject to income tax on the net unrealized gain on your world-wide property.

    Which in plain English means that they basically say what was all your property worth the day before you renounced? Then pretend you sold it all that day and tax you on the gain.

    And you can't forget to file Form 8854 with the IRS. 

    If giving up my US citizenship wouldn't render me stateless I would so do it.

    This also applies if your average income for the five years preceding the renunciation was $145,000.

    It's not your average income. It's your average net income tax liability. It goes up every year too. 2010 it was $145,000 and for 2011 it was $147,000.

    There is also a third way to qualify as a covered expatriate is to have a net worth of $2,000,000 or more.

    Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
  • imageneeps:
    imagePublius:
    imageneeps:

    The IRS always gets the last laugh. If you cannot certify that you have complied with all IRS requirements for the 5 years prior to your expatriation date, you become a certified expatriate. Which thanks to IRS code section 887A (passed by those crooks in Congress as part of the HEART law) means you are now subject to income tax on the net unrealized gain on your world-wide property.

    Which in plain English means that they basically say what was all your property worth the day before you renounced? Then pretend you sold it all that day and tax you on the gain.

    And you can't forget to file Form 8854 with the IRS. 

    If giving up my US citizenship wouldn't render me stateless I would so do it.

    This also applies if your average income for the five years preceding the renunciation was $145,000.

    It's not your average income. It's your average net income tax liability. It goes up every year too. 2010 it was $145,000 and for 2011 it was $147,000.

    There is also a third way to qualify as a covered expatriate is to have a net worth of $2,000,000 or more.

    Shits. There are times I hate being an American. This is one of them.
  • This is scary. Ugh.

    The first year of our marriage I can't legally work (India's rules) so I wonder how that will work (since it says you can get in trouble if you don't file). I do know I'll never be legally allowed to own a home in India (Ryan can of course, but it'd have to be in his name only) so that might actually be a good thing... 

     Yeesh.

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  • imageRyansBelovedBride:

    This is scary. Ugh.

    The first year of our marriage I can't legally work (India's rules) so I wonder how that will work (since it says you can get in trouble if you don't file). I do know I'll never be legally allowed to own a home in India (Ryan can of course, but it'd have to be in his name only) so that might actually be a good thing... 

     Yeesh.

    From my research and from what my mom asked the accounts her firm works with you don't have to do anything. For 2011 I didn't work at all, never had a pay stub, ect.  My name wasn't on his Swiss bank account either so I don't have the issue of the $10,000 assets in foreign bank accounts.

    H filed his taxes for 2011 at the beginning of the year for the few months he worked in the US so far.

    I guess there was a positive of not working part/full time while living in Zurich. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with what some of you have to do.

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  • I am out of the loop here. What is the point of the FBARA? It seems that it is the first year I have to file it.  What is the IRS going to do with the information? Do you have to pay something for having money in a foreing bank account?

    I always file with the IRS, except last year when I didnt work. I always file married, filing separately because my DH is not American.

    I think I need an accountant.

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  • imagedulcemariamar1:

    I am out of the loop here. What is the point of the FBARA? It seems that it is the first year I have to file it.  What is the IRS going to do with the information? Do you have to pay something for having money in a foreing bank account?

    I always file with the IRS, except last year when I didnt work. I always file married, filing separately because my DH is not American.

    I think I need an accountant.

    The bank account reporting doesn't go to the IRS, it goes to the treasury department.  They're trying to keep people from holding cash abroad as a tax shelter, but they're making it damn difficult to be an American who lives abroad.

  • Why does the FBARA make it difficult for Americans to live abroad?

     I really have no idea. Embarrassed I know, it is sad.

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  • The rules and regulations change what seems to be every year.  A lot of people don't know they need to give the info to the feds, and the penalties for not reporting are stiff--50% of the contents of the account or $100k.
  • Thanks for the info Publius. You are the best!!

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  • LOL.  My info might not be 100% accurate.  I pulled it out of a few articles I've read.  I have no idea if it's up to date.  I do know that a lot of people who didn't know they needed to file the paperwork have forfeit a lot of money to the US government.
  • "The first regulation requires all Americans, including those living abroad, with at least $10,000 in overseas bank accounts, to file a supplementary form disclosing all of their foreign accounts. That includes any accounts in which the U.S. citizen has a financial interest. That could include a joint account with a spouse or child, accounts for corporations in which the American owns more than 50 percent of the value of shares of stock, or any trust or estate that benefits the U.S. citizen."

     

     

    So if I don't have any privileges with DH's account, does it still mean I have "a financial interest"?

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  • imagePotato Pie:

    "The first regulation requires all Americans, including those living abroad, with at least $10,000 in overseas bank accounts, to file a supplementary form disclosing all of their foreign accounts. That includes any accounts in which the U.S. citizen has a financial interest. That could include a joint account with a spouse or child, accounts for corporations in which the American owns more than 50 percent of the value of shares of stock, or any trust or estate that benefits the U.S. citizen."

     

     

    So if I don't have any privileges with DH's account, does it still mean I have "a financial interest"?

    Very good question!!!!

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  • dpdwdpdw member
    Sixth Anniversary 1000 Comments
    imagePublius:
    imagedulcemariamar1:

    I am out of the loop here. What is the point of the FBARA? It seems that it is the first year I have to file it.  What is the IRS going to do with the information? Do you have to pay something for having money in a foreing bank account?

    I always file with the IRS, except last year when I didnt work. I always file married, filing separately because my DH is not American.

    I think I need an accountant.

    The bank account reporting doesn't go to the IRS, it goes to the treasury department.  They're trying to keep people from holding cash abroad as a tax shelter, but they're making it damn difficult to be an American who lives abroad.

    Are you sure that the IRS can't access the info (even if we are sending it to the Treasury)?  Our CPA said one of the reasons for the disclosures is so the IRS can do a "check and balance" to ensure we haven't misstated our income for tax purposes.

  • imagedpdw:
    imagePublius:
    imagedulcemariamar1:

    I am out of the loop here. What is the point of the FBARA? It seems that it is the first year I have to file it.  What is the IRS going to do with the information? Do you have to pay something for having money in a foreing bank account?

    I always file with the IRS, except last year when I didnt work. I always file married, filing separately because my DH is not American.

    I think I need an accountant.

    The bank account reporting doesn't go to the IRS, it goes to the treasury department.  They're trying to keep people from holding cash abroad as a tax shelter, but they're making it damn difficult to be an American who lives abroad.

    Are you sure that the IRS can't access the info (even if we are sending it to the Treasury)?  Our CPA said one of the reasons for the disclosures is so the IRS can do a "check and balance" to ensure we haven't misstated our income for tax purposes.

    I didn't say the IRS can't get their hands on the info. I said the form goes to the treasury department.ETA: did not mean for that to sound snippy at all. Just meant to say that since its purpose is to catch tax evaders, I'm sure the IRS can access the info, even though they're not the ones collecting it.
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