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Help??
Also posted this over at MM.
Back story: FI and I were renting a house that was a part of a contract for deed in Minnesota. The real landlord (who bought the house via contract for deed) is in California, but we were to go through the owners of the house (in MN) who is still taking care of the house for the landlord who bought the house. FI and I went to the owners and asked if it'd be okay for us to break our lease early since we found a house to buy. The owners said it was not a problem at all as long as we found new tenant. All good.
We've been waiting to see if we'd get our deposit back ($700), but we thought we might not be able to since we broke the lease. We were okay with that.
Today I get a letter from the actual landlord in California with all of the charges that we have NEVER discussed in the past. The charges include:
1. Propane filling at $687 (for 300 gallons of propane for a 500 gallon tank which is incorrect, it was at 55% when we left and they are NOT allowed to fill it more than 80%))
2. Pet cleaning fee at $150
3. Refrigerator cleaning 2 hours at $30, total of $60
4. Stove cleaning 1 hour at $30, total of $30
5. Garage cleaning & Yard clean up 3 hours at $30, total of $90
6. Replaced screens- 3 screens at $50, total of $250
7. Storm door replacement- 2 doors at $50, total of $100
8. Microwave replacement $50
Which brings the total to $1,417 and he told me to send him $717 (he kept our deposit of $700).
I am in shock. This has never happened to us before. Nothing was agreed- it was not even on the agreement nor in writing. The microwave, screens, and storm doors were already damaged when we moved in and he knows this. Never told us about shampooing the carpet, cleaning the refrigerator, stove, garage, and yard. We cleaned up very well. The owners know nothing about this and they said it may be how people do this in California? Huh?
It looks like he hired people to go over to the house and do a deep cleaning or something. During the final walk through of the house with the owners- nothing was mentioned. If we knew we were supposed to clean up more, we would have done it ourselves.
Is it our responsibility to pay him back? FWIW the letter is typed on a simple paper- not certified or anything.
Re: Help??
Tell him to stick it and if we really wants his money he can sue you for it! That is stupid!
ETA - Sorry that was my stick it to him post. To add though, I would send him a letter explaining that you will not be paying him that amount and this is why. The items were damaged when you moved in, you cleaned per your contract, etc.
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Did you take pictures before and after? Did you local landlord sign off at the final walk-through? Do you have any documents from your move-in, stating existing damage?
Like PP said, I would send back via certified mail, a nice, professional letter explaining that you will not take responsibility for the above because of the reasons you listed.
If you don't have much proof either way, my guess is that it will end with him keeping your deposit, and everyone moving on. Try the letter, and see how he responds. If he continues to push, and you feel confident, let him sue you for the rest.
Also - I am a landlord in California and I know nothing of any crazy California ways.
Also # 2 - I am not an attorney or any sort of legal expert. This is just what I would do, or expect my tenants to do.
We don't have anything
We didn't think of taking pictures. This has never happened to us in the past so it just did not occur to us to do it.
Our local landlord did sign off at the final walk through and he only said that the fridge needed to be cleaned and the carpet needed better cleaning (our vacuum sucked at picking up dog hair), but nothing otherwise.
I feel like just ignoring the letter and not responding and see what happens? Or is that a bad choice? Is it better to send a certified mail? Why?
Certified to show proof that you contacted the landlord should you need to prove to a court.
yes, you need to respond. If you do not respond, it will speak to your credibility. You are stating that the issues are not your fault, but if you ignore, it will appear that you are hiding something or do not care.
If there is one lesson I have learned in life (through landlording and my job), it is this: Do you want to testify to this in court?
In your situation, if anything progresses to the courts, I think you will look much better if you responded to his letter and were reasonable. You don't want to look like the assholio that just ignored contact. I'm not sure that there is any downside to sending a certified letter back, arguing his claims. You can insist he send proof of damage (photos and receipts for payments). You could also send a copy of the form that your landlord signed off at the walk-through.
I'd consider your lost deposit a lesson-learned in being more careful about getting pictures, making sure everything is clean, etc. I would not ignore the crazy new owner, but I wouldn't send him a check either.
This.
For the future, always take photos, preferably with the landlord there if s/he doesn't initiate them. I take video as well using my digital camera's video setting and narrate it. Make sure your camera's date stamp is on.
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DH and I move every 2-3 years because of new Navy orders. In all of the places we've rented, none of this has been required until our current rental but it was addressed when we signed the lease and we have a signed addendum stating what must be done at move out.
I would not pay for any of the things you listed unless I knew about it ahead of time. Ditto pp's suggestions about the letter.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. This is why I tend to loathe most landlords.
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I agree I would send him a certified letter explaining that you don't believe you owe for X,Y, and Z. Also send him a copy of the final walk through letter that the local landlord signed off on. I would knowledge that you know the fridge and carpets were dirty and you are fine with those charges. I would also get the local landlord to write a letter on your behalf to keep on file, in case you do get taken to court. If you are taken to court, its possible that the local landlord might no longer be around. At least if you have a signed, and prefer notarized letter, you have someone on your side.
I worked in an apartment complex in college and I can't tell you how often people left places trashed! Since I worked in a large complex we simple attempted to collect and when that didn't work we sent it on to a collection agency. I'm assuming your landlord only owns a few properties and probably doesn't have a collections company sitting in the wings for him.
Our house building adventure (UPDATED 8/20/12)
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Our wedding blogged! (Click Brad & Briana on the right side)
Our house building adventure (UPDATED 8/20/12)
Wedding Planning Bio
Our wedding blogged! (Click Brad & Briana on the right side)
Thanks everybody. We are working on creating a certified letter.
I contacted the propane company and they confirmed that the last time they filled it was back in January and we paid for it (we have proof) and it was never filled again. So the $700 charge on propane is incorrect- a lie even, probably.
We are working on getting the signed document from the final walk through.
FI's brother is a lawyer and he may be able to help us out with the letter too.
I've rented eight different apartments since college. I've only been charged for something once ($30 for a big red stain on white carpet).
You are definitely responsible for leaving the place clean including refrigerator, stove, garage, etc. They can probably also charge you for the pet cleaning if it says it in your lease.
In my experience, the burden is on them to prove that you caused damage. They should have before and after photos to back up their charges. Ideally you would have taken your own, but they still have to prove it.
Do not ignore the letter. I would have FI's brother put a letter like what pp's suggested on some fancy legal letterhead and send certified. It might make them back down.
Of course, you're right. We left the place quite spotless actually. This is why this is such a shock. Nothing is in the lease agreement about any of the charges nor the additional cleaning.
I'm slapping myself for not taking pictures. Lesson learned.
Hopefully this will all go away after the certified letter.
I would ask the propane company for proof of that and send that along as well as documentation. It will also be good to have on hand, should he try to sue.
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Yep, we did that. They're sending the document to us. Thanks!