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New--Intro and a dog question.
Hello! I am a long time lurker, with a 3 year old German Shepherd/Husky mix. He is neutered and a rescue. He seems really smart, and food driven, but has some issues listening/doing what is needed without the incentive of food. We have been through training at Petsmart and a local trainer, and without food, all of it seems to be null.
My question is what are your thoughts on e-collar training? My husband is giving serious thought to a local trainer who trains police dogs using e-collars. My fears are that I don't want to lose the dog he is, (which is a kind, gentle dog) and I don't want to have to use an e-collar for the rest of his life.
Thoughts? Experiences? If you need any more information, let me know.
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Re: New--Intro and a dog question.
Ditto PP - have you actually transitioned from rewarding (with food) a behavior every single time your dog performs the behavior to only rewarding intermittently? That's the best way to ensure that he listens every time (because he doesn't know if he'll get a treat but he thinks/hopes he might). Also, make sure you aren't bribing him to do something. The key to that is your timing. He shouldn't get the treat until after he performs the behavior. Of course, when you're first teaching a behavior, you can use food to lure him into a position (sit, down, etc.). however, once he knows what the command means, you shouldn't bribe him with food (i.e. don't shake the treat bag to get him to come; he should come when called and then get a treat).
I have never used an e-collar - is that a collar that shocks/zaps the dog when you push a button? If so, I personally don't like the idea that the dog is being punished (and potentially harmed) when he does something wrong; I prefer rewarding for the right behavior. I also worry that the dog will become fearful (and potentially lash out) from the shock. My SIL's dog wears a bark collar that shocks her if/when she barks. If you even come near her holding the collar, she cowers away. She also has severe SA and is a generally nervous/fearful dog, and I think the collar only makes it worse. Try positive reinforcement, including working towards intermittent treats!
Thank you all for the responses and the welcome!
We have transitioned to intermittently, however, as an example, when we are playing fetch, he refuses to leave the sitting position from coming back to go and chase the ball again, until he recieves a treat. I full-heartedly believe that we are doing something wrong, I am just not sure what or how to fix it.
We initially started with sit, and shake, and he has those down perfectly, with or without a treat. And we are working (slowly) on the come command when he is within the house, and have worked on only treating some of the time, now. And he is getting better. It is as soon as we get outside, his first inclination is to bolt and run away, if he has the chance. And he doesn't listen to "COME" or "HERE", if he is distracted. I really honestly want to explore as many options as possible before trying the collar, because I agree with PP's, I don't want him to be skittish or afraid.
He has slipped his collar, once, chasing after a fox and was gone for 36 hours, which was honestly the crappiest day and a half of our lives. We now have him on a harness, that he cannot slip out of, however I would rather him just come when he is called, rather than running.
If I missed a question, or if you have any more, please feel free to ask.
I'm sorry, are you saying that you are considering putting a shock collar on your dog when he won't go chase a ball again during PLAY TIME?! That is insane to me.
You need to begin training "come" outside with him on a long lead. You can't expect what works inside (which doesn't sound like you have down solid yet) to work outside, when there are tons of distractions.
And your dog shouldn't be off a leash so that he is in a position to run away anyway. If the dog doesn't listen and doesn't have a come, he doesn't get to go off leash. Our dog plays outside on a long lead, so that if he starts to bolt after a bird/squirrel/whatever he wants to herd, we can grab him.
I really think you need to teach a better "come" command. Get a trainer if you need help. No offense, but I think it's really wrong to punish your dog by shocking him because of your training shortcomings.
This is the thing with e-collars. Aside from being (IMO) incredibly inhumane, they can backfire horribly. What you think you're punishing the dog for and what the dog thinks he's being punished for can be radically different, and create much worse problems than you ever had to begin with. I dislike electric fences for the same reason. Say, for example, your dog starts to bolt after another dog because he wants to play, and you give him a shock. In your head, it's very clear that he's getting a shock because he's not coming when called, but the dog associates the shock not with you (who he's not even focused on) but with the other dog. Next thing you know, you have a dog who's snarling at other dogs whenever he sees them. Same thing with the electric fences...maybe your dog rushes to the boundary every time kids are walking home from school, and then he gets a shock. Is he being taught to stay in the yard, or does he start associating shocks with children? And then what happens?
In all honesty, based on what you're describing, I'm not understanding the need for drastic training measures, anyway. If he won't move from a sit during playtime, stop playing with him. Simple enough. He'll catch on. If he bolts when you go out, keep him on a leash until he learns a better recall.
Another thing to think about with recall is that your dog is a husky mix. Huskies generally have terrible recall skills outside, as well as a good number them have high prey drives (our husky girl pretty much tries to pounce any moving thing outside that isn't another dog). If something is more interesting than you, the husky is probably going to ignore you and go find the interesting thing first.
You may not be able to have a real solid recall outside ever, but to have any it is probably going to take a long time to build up to it. Working on recall with a really long lead is a good way to start and then moving to areas with distractions, like a dog park, can help build up a more solid recall.
This is a lot of my thoughts, and you have helped me to articulate it better to my husband. I thank you for that, as well as the helpful advice. A long lead and hand signals (which have been working through sitting and down, and staying, with or without a treat.)
This is also my thought. Thank you so much!