International Nesties
GilliC
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Discussion of Breivik trial in Oslo
Re: Discussion of Breivik trial in Oslo
A few of my local friends shared this the other day, and I think it answers a lot of questions about the trial:
http://www.businessinsider.com/explained-the-norwegian-legal-system-where-mass-murderer-breivik-is-on-trial-2012-4
The longest sentence he can receive is 21 years, but at that point he would be re-evaluated and if they did not think he was rehabilitated (I doubt that will happen, given his strong mindset), his sentence would be extended 5 more years. At that point he's re-assessed and the sentence can be extended again. Lather, rinse, repeat. So the media saying that he would be released after 21 years is totally misleading. Norway believes in prison as rehabilitation rather than punishment, so a life-sentence up front doesn't make sense, but it doesn't mean they just let people out of jail after 21 years.
Regarding the insanity plea...
I don't think an insanity plea would lessen the weight of his manifesto. Like others said in the other post, those who agree with it will continue to agree with it. My best Norwegian friend read it in its entirety, and he said that although he could point out the logical fallacies, it's actually a very carefully constructed piece that really does seem to make sense if you overlook a few crucial points.
This also ties into his not-guilty but not-insane plea. My friend summarized it for me, and we've discussed it at length. Breivik truly believed that the current Labor government is damaging Norway as a country and needs to be ousted from power however possible. This meant destroying the future generation of the party - hence the reason he killed teenagers and college students. This was a revolution, and if you stop and think about it, most revolutions do involve bloodshed. History is written by the victors, so in the unlikely event that he did change Norwegian history... The problem of course is that he killed young civilians, and in his manifesto he talks about how it was such a horrible thing to have to do, but it was something that had to be done for the good of the country. And this is essentially the gist of his current defense, from what I understand.
To be fair to Germany, it's the same here. Or it was, but now it's complicated. After the end of their sentence, dangerous criminals could be placed in "retroactive protective custody," meaning that they were kept in prison as long as the power that be thought that they were a danger to society. However, the European Court of Human Rights rightly (in my opinion) declared that to be a violation of human rights. They were given a sentence and served it - you can't just arbitrarily decide to keep them longer. So now in the sentences there are clauses that provide for the protective custody, and that's legal. But most of the people sentenced before the ECHR ruling didn't have this clause in their sentencing and now have to be let go at the end of their sentence, which is causing a big to-do in several cases of sex offenders.
I assume that Norway has learned from Germany and puts it in the original sentencing as well?
I don't know for certain, but I believe so.
My food blog
What I'm looking forward to in 2012:
Eating our way through (northern) Italy on vacation
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DOn Australian news they were saying that he said "I only have 2 options, acquittal or death penalty". Well, obvs death penalty isn't going to happen.
There is no way he will be a free man again. 21 year max sentence or not, he will not be free again.
True, and it's also true that someone's revolutionary hero can be considered a terrorist by someone else. Nonetheless, from a human rights/morality perspective, the issue of bloodshed on either side of the equation is a very carefully studied one by any independent bodies trying to asses abuses committed. Look at any Truth and Reconciliation Commission in the last 20 years or so. They don't excuse the abuses committed by people who were struggling for justice or a better world just because their intentions may have been noble.
That's all I wanted to say. I don't believe in the death penalty, I simply believe the law should apply to everyone equally, whatever their motivations were for committing a crime. That's probably simplifying things, but it's the easiest way to explain my feelings.
Also, I think it's fascinating that all of you know so much about the legal systems where you live. All I know about French law is a smattering of things relating to free expression issues because of my old job.
To be fair, until the day the bomb went off, I didn't know much about the Norwegian legal system besides the fact that prisoners are sometimes allowed to go home on weekends for restricted visits. (Because that's so different from anything you'd expect that the ex-pats can't help but talk about it!)
In the last 3 years, since I've been working with 12 Dutch lawyers and my boss is a former judge (and he still fills in once in a while) I've learned a LOT more about the law (in many countries. law-talk in whatever country is like a hobby for my co-workers.)
My food blog
What I'm looking forward to in 2012:
Eating our way through (northern) Italy on vacation
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DDH has a law degree and I do some legal translating. One of my regular clients is a criminal law professor, and I've translated several articles and a huge book by him talking about these issues, so that's where my knowledge comes from.