Politics & Current Events
If I wanted to hear the pitter-patter of little feet, I'd put shoes on the cat.
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Race & teaching spin-off question
So...is it ever appropriate, as a parent or grandparent or close family member, to tell a child to "rise above" the stereotypes and not reflect them? I ask from the parental and familial view because that's the only one I could possibly think would be appropriate. Or is that just something that should never be said to a child, period, end of subject?
If I wanted to hear the pitter-patter of little feet, I'd put shoes on the cat.
Re: Race & teaching spin-off question
FWIW I have worked for 3 African-American Army Generals. Every one of them had used a similar message when talking to AA students or young Soldiers (both officers and enlisted.) One of the generals used to tell AA students that if they wanted to "rise above" what society expected of them they had to look, speak and act a certain way. (Basically well-groomed, well-dressed, and no slang, profanity.)
None of them every had a complaint about these messages and they got numerous compliments and thank you notes.
This is the other thing that I was wondering. Were people upset with the teacher for saying that, or were people upset with the teacher for saying that because she was white? If it was an AA teacher (like the generals) and they said it, would people still be pissed off?
Yes, I think the issue was the messenger, not the message. One of the generals I worked for used to specifically tell AA students not to use "ax" in place of "ask." I can't imagine a white person saying that without be called a racist.
I'm not ABOUT to go tell little white kids to rise above their PWT stereotypes because I'm not gonna have someone trying to shoot my azz. I agree with cookie's stance - you need to be a family member or a mentor. Not some random person trying to help me be a credit to my race.
I have never had anyone tell me not to act in a stereotypical fashion. Now, I have had a teacher tell me I was acting Bougie. Bless her heart.
Yeah, the issue was the messenger. I was trying to give benefit of the doubt to think she read wrt to Trayvon about black people having those types of discussion with their kids. And maybe (if I'm charitable) she was trying to do a similar helpful thing, teaching kids about the unfair ways of the world.
BUT. BIG BUT!
She's not the person to do that. It's not just b/c she's white, although that's a huge part of it, it's that she doesn't have that kind of relationship with the kids. That's more of a familial role.
In the army, leaders can and do take on a familial role, so the story of the general doesn't surprise me or raise eyebrows.
What if said parent or grandparent or close family member is another race?
I really think the intentions matter. I know black teachers that also buy into racial stereotypes of some of their students and I wouldn't want them having that conversation either. It is one thing to take on the role that you want to give advice to help shape an individual and be forthcoming about the challenges that they may face as black people. It is another to tell them to essentially stop acting like their stereotypes.
Another problem with the other poster, is the setting of the conversation.
My H who is a black male teacher and has his masters in counseling has had small group sessions with black students about race and stereotypes. I believe those are more appropriate settings in which all the students were free to share their experiences and discuss issues about race and stereotypes, than the off the cuff, you're acting bad conversation that the other poster described.
I thought about this question, too. I can see discussing stereotypes, and if someone used the stereotype to insult the child comforting him/her by telling them (in a child appropriate way) what an idiot the other person is and how they are not bound by the stereotypes. I just can't see motivating a discipline talk with overcoming stereotypes, from my white self I just have a hard time seeing it coming out "right".
If H's parents told our future kids to "rise above" I would itch.
Which part of you would itch? Your azz maybe? I am SO mad at Sou for saying this. I can't stop laughing. It's like my grandmom got dropped off in that thread.
I know!!! All of me would itch. That said, I was 100% OK with that judge who asked the white folks to leave the courtroom while he told the defendants he was tired of seeing their black a$$es. I was so very OK with that.
SBP, there's actually some data behind what you're saying.
If students are reminded of their minority status before being tested, they perform worse.
I still don't think that negates the power of a familial talk coming from the right place, one of love, not of threat.
But I'm white, and I'm really talking out of my (not-itchy) ass here, so I'm open to being told to stfu.
I know of a principal who needs this data. His raggedy azz made a comment about the black kids in his school being the reason the schools scores were down.
I believe that. I certianly wouldn't remind my special ed students that they were special ed students before taking a test.
No! Everyone knows the special ed students is the reason!
I think this is the study I'm thinking of.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7473032
here's a synopsis of one about women and math, link to original article is embedded, but you need a subscription.
http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2008/01/gender-stereotypes-can-distort-our.html