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Boundaries with Single Friends
Hey, everyone!
I'm having a bit of an issue with my non-married friends. I love them to death and they are my oldest and dearest friends. However, they are always asking me to do "single girl" things, and I feel like they don't understand why I can't partake in these events anymore. DH is having the same issue on his end, too. We want to save these friendships if possible, but we're starting to believe that being in different places in our lives is driving such a wedge in our relationships that these friendships might be on their last legs.
For example, I had a friend ask me to come to a bar/club hop with the ladies this summer. Sounds nice, except for the fact that these are a bunch of single women looking to meet men and dance with as many guys as possible. That's great for them and I know they'll have a great time, but I feel uncomfortable doing that. I asked them what I'm supposed to do since it would be inappropriate for me to hit up men at the bar or dance dirty with a bunch of guys at a club, so otherwise I'd be kind of just hanging around while they are out having fun.
I also have a friend from high school who asks me every couple of weeks to have sleepovers with her and other single friends. Now, this might be something that some married women might still be interested in and I don't judge that at all. For me, however, it just doesn't feel right. I was never big on sleepovers in high school or college (I can only think of three I attended in high school). I'm also a bit of an introvert, which she knows, and knows that this sort of activity is really not my scene. I just feel bad saying no because all she wants to do is these sleepovers. When she was in a long term relationship, she never asked me to do these things. It was always about group dates and things or ladies lunches. This is just since she's been single.
And on DH's end, his friends from college keep asking him to come have weekends with them. It wouldn't be a big deal to either of us if these guys weren't still very much living it up like it was their college days. They frequently want him to come for these weekends when they are throwing huge parties with old college buddies and inviting current college students to come (which is creepy to us, but that is a whole different story). And these friends typically have drugs at their parties and DH is DEFINITELY not into that, especially because if the police came and they got in trouble, he'd lose his job as a teacher, and his job is important to him. Plus, he feels uncomfortable being at parties that his friends sort of set up to meet women and have one night stands, and them never inviting his wife makes him really wary of spending weekends with them and attending these parties.
Basically, we just feel like we're in a different place in our lives. We're not concerned about not having friends. We do have some married friends we hang out with on occasion. It's just that our single friends are our long term friends, some who even participated in our wedding, and we just want to know if there is a way to set boundaries or if these friendships might just be coming to an end.
Sorry for the long stories, but TIA!
Re: Boundaries with Single Friends
I can get not wanting to hang out with just the ladies if they are hanging out and also on a mission to man-hunt, and same thing with the guys.
I do think it's important to have a girls-only and guys-only hang out. If you don't want to on their terms, you can suggest a ton of other types of get-togethers, girls-only and guys-only like:
Be creative ~ and I don't really see the big deal in going to the girl sleep-over every now and then. You don't have to go every time, but it's a non-guy-hunting thing so it's a compromise. I can understand if the bar scene is not your thing anymore without your DH there, but the sleepover is meeting them in the middle and a controlled environment.
And on my end, I'm really not into sleepovers. I'm an introvert who likes her space and this is an activity that I stopped enjoying after middle school. When I've asked if the girls would like to come over one night while DH is working late and I cook them dinner, or would they like if we all went to dinner and a movie, they think it's boring and want to go out to bars and things instead. Plus, the girl who wants me to do sleepovers with her is still living at home with her parents, so that puts a whole different level of awkward on it.
Maybe the real problem is that our tastes and interests don't match up anymore. I mean, that is entirely plausible.
Also, we're definitely a more nerdy couple. I can imagine our suggestions outside of regular old lunch or dinner would be stuff like going to see the latest comic book movie, going to science museums or having video game parties. Haha! We're not the whole wine tasting and book club types of people. Our married friends are more like us than our single friends, tbh.
When I read the first post I thought maybe you weren't trying enough, but I think you maybe right that some of the friendships have run their course. I go out with my single girl friends all the time but we usually go to restaraunts grab a drink or go to one of our houses cook dinner etc.. they do occasionaly go to clubs and once in awhile ill join them, but they know im more of a homebody and don't hold it against me, plus I see them weekly so its no big deal.
I also don't blame your husband for not wanting to go away and hang out with a bunch of people doing drugs and having one night stands, that sounds pretty terrible.
I don't blame him either. We missed one of his friends' birthdays a couple of years ago, and his friend sent us a picture message from the party that showed their coffee table laid out with weed and cocaine and pills that said that we were missing the fun. DH was SHOCKED because while he knew his friend smoked weed sometimes, he had NO idea that his friend was also into harder drugs which neither of us are comfortable with. We were so glad we couldn't make it because we wouldn't have stayed once that stuff came out!
Wow. i feel the same exact way when it comes to clubbing with my single friends..
Im 20years old so most of my friends are really into the young wild party lifestyle. I completely understand what you mean and how you are feeling but im wondering if the real problem is whether your friends truly value your friendship. It shouldn't matter what yall do as long as yall are spending time together. While i don't blame them for not wanting to go to the science museum and you guys not wanting to party, Im sure there are things you can all agree on. Bowling? Laser tag? Game night??
For the record, I'm 25 and have never been to a club EVER. I've been to a bar once or twice and that is it. I didn't even go but to a couple of parties in college, and even then they were usually quite small. This isn't a new revelation for them, but I do feel strongly about not partaking in these activities even MORE now that I am married (For me, of course. YMMV.). So if on a scale from one to ten I didn't like an activity prior to being married at a seven, I'm now at a nine. It is who I am. Plus, DH and I have a very conservative view on marriage for us personally. So, yes, for us there is a line on things we don't do because we are married now. You don't have to agree with it, but it is our belief and how we govern our marriage. It is how his parents have governed their 28 year marriage and how my grandparents governed their almost 60 year marriage. It is a choice we made based on our upbringing and we are confident in it and okay with it.
Instead of worrying about me being a stick in the mud because I don't want to go to bars or clubs or whatever for whatever reason, shouldn't the focus be us trying to find things that we all agree on as a group? We've suggested things and they've suggested things and it seems that our interests don't really overlap anymore.
(I really don't mean to sound mean, btw. I just get a little hurt when someone says I'm a stick in the mud because I don't party and drink and go to bars and clubs or whatever as those are things I've never really done or been interested in. I've always been the type to sit around reading books all day or spending the day in a museum or park. My friends have always known this and I don't hide this from people I meet or anything and I'm happy with who I am and the life I lead!
So find new friends that like reading books and going to museums and parks. Kinda seems like an easy fix, since you don't have much in common with your other "friends" anyway.
And yes, if the majority of the group wants to go out clubbing and you're suggesting a museum tour and then a nice book club gathering, you're kind of a stick in the mud. Or if the guys are wanting to have a party and there might be drugs there (gasp) and your teacher husband feels he would lose his job by going - the simple solution is to not go and find new friends that have more similar interests.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
If these people are always asking you to do things you've never wanted to do, I don't understand why you've stayed friends. You're making it sound like you've never enjoyed their company so why try to hang on to it now when, as you've said, you and your DH have other friends you enjoy?
And I don't think the PP was calling you a stick in the mud because you don't enjoy those things. I think she was pointing out that what they're asking isn't unreasonable. I was never a huge club person. But even after I was married, I would go out with single girlfriends, have a drink or two and watch them embarrass themselves trying to pick up guys. It was amusing. It wouldn't have been my first choice of activities but I wanted to keep my relationships with my single friends so I went.
This is totally irrelevant to the problem at hand but I also find it really unlikely that your DH has had the same guy friends all along and is shocked that they do drugs. I suspect he's feigning surprise for your benefit. It's really unlikely they were all sober (except for pot) at 20 and are now raging coke heads.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
If you're not willing to do the above, I don't see why you care to still be friends with them. Because this advice is great - you're seeing them for a little bit, on your terms, for a short amount of time, and then heading home.
And then someone else made the good point - if you all were so different for many years, how did your friendships function before? How did you hang out with them before? And recently I have become quite a homebody, but I will make an effort to go out with others (like bowling) because having friendships is investing time with friends. You can't list names as friends if you never really see them.
I think it's probably best to just think of these friends as acquaintances, at least while they are still in this phase of dating, and maybe you'll all have more in common later and they'd be more comfortable meeting up for just dinner. Just because you all have grown apart, doesn't mean you need to burn any bridges over this. I still wish you could do the advice listed above though, at least once in a blue moon.
And you mentioned something about conservative marriage and doing what his parents and your grandparents have done for years. Try to be a little more open-minded in that each new marriage is an opportunity to make tweaks to your liking, because not each person and couple is the same with the same priorities. It sounds like you are trying too hard to hold onto your identity and a solid marriage, would could end up being stifling - if you don't see this now, maybe in a couple of years you'll realize this and losen up a bit.
Okay, I don't really know what else to say. These friends I've talked about are women I've known since high school and they have changed a lot recently. The one who asks me about clubbing and stuff has taken up clubs and bars very recently. This behavior isn't like her. She's always been a sweet, chill church going (like, every time the doors are open) person. She didn't even swear. We'd meet up for coffee and movies and things like that. We've talked and I honestly think that her new behavior is because she doesn't feel like her life is going the way she wants at the moment since this all started after a handful of recent setbacks. I think this is her way to cope/try something and see if it sticks. Plus, I've invited her out for chill things lately like movies and fun activities that she used to love and she's blown me off for that stuff.
As for the other friend of mine, we used to just go to movies, eat at restaurants or hang out at one of our houses and talk. We'd also go to theme parks, musicals and plays, and on beach trips. She was in a long term relationship for several years and during that time it was always dinner and movies, mani/pedis, things like that. She'd go to bars and clubs, but she never invited me for obvious reasons and we were okay with that because we did other things.
So, I mean, we did other things. We've always done other things and had other things in common. It just seems like recently these things aren't as interesting for them, but they are still interesting and fun for me. The new activities, not so much. Add to it the fact that they both live about 45 minutes away, so visiting for just an hour seems to not be very efficient, and having an hour and a half round trip to do something I'm not that into doesn't seem that great, either (I definitely wouldn't expect it of them). I don't ever ask them to make the trip because I don't want to impose on them like that. I always offer to come to them.
I think that maybe they are changing and I'm just sort of staying the same. I guess I'll just keep trying to find some sort of middle ground that we both enjoy doing. I get that I'm a boring lame-o to most people. Trust me, I'm aware of that fact. I am who I am, just like they are who they are. We've always found common ground in the past, but it just seems like it isn't there anymore and that makes me sad. I have other friends that I still do things with and we seem to be doing just fine. I just hate to drift apart with people. It's not fun, especially when you've known them for so long.
These are DH's college buddies, so the relationships have kind of tapered off and changed since DH graduated and got a teaching job in '08. DH's friends still smoke pot for the most part, and we don't begrudge them that. Whatever floats their boat. He has one friend in particular who seems to have started up on hard drugs since he dropped out of college in '10 to focus on his music. And since this friend lives with another of DH's friends, it is something they've started to do together which led to them hanging out with other people who were into it. It was definitely a surprise to DH. Not that he couldn't imagine his friends doing this as they were always a bit reckless, just that it still came as a bit of a shock. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm not explaining it well. He wasn't totally surprised, but still shocked.
Well, it's been said, but it might just be that these friendships have run their course. High school is another universe to me! Going to college and/or entering "the real world" takes people down very different paths. People really start to discover themselves after HS, once they are more independant and away from their parents.
I know these are long term friends, but not all friendships are meant to be life long friendships.
Not saying that these have to necessarily end, but at the same time - that might be where this is headed. People do outgrow each other.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Dumb question, but if some of your friends want to go to a bar, and you don't want to be the only non-manhunter, why not invite your husband or a married friend to come as well? Or, just talk to your single friends and don't try to flirt with anyone. When I was single I didn't spend every moment at bars chasing down guys. A lot of it was just having fun with whoever I was with.
If all they're doing is flirting maybe that's part of their problem.
eta - and yeah, like the pp said, it's okay to not want to go out to bars. But if you want to keep the friendship sometimes you have to do what they want to do.
It's not a dumb question at all! I would be glad to invite my husband, but my friend always frames these bar and club outings as "girls night". Her offer usually goes like this: "Hey, let's have a girls night out at the club! I've been dying to go dancing! We can grab drinks and I bet we can find some cute guys to dance with! What do you say?". So, of course I feel a little uncomfortable because dancing with other men would be weird. I'd feel much better if I could invite my husband and he could invite his friends and they could go drink at the bar while us ladies went on the floor and danced, but it would defeat the purpose of a "girls night" y'know?
It's also a little weird because she and I don't have but one mutual friend, and she also declines these club nights, so these events are usually with a bunch of women I don't know. I'm not adverse to meeting new people, but I'm really shy when I'm in a group situation with people I don't know, so I do far better meeting people in a more chill setting first. I just wanted to clarify that it isn't like I have a whole group of friends who are asking me to go out and I'm turning them down constantly. The friends in my post are two separate girls who aren't friends with each other. I might should have clarified that earlier. I'd definitely feel bad to turn down a whole group of people or try to persuade them to do something different.
I kind of had it "easy" with the transition from high school to college, because I had to move away from my junior-and-high school friends my last year of high school, thousands of miles away. So when I started college and started to hang out with a different crowd, who shared more specific interests and life-views, it was the distance that kept me from my childhood friends. We keep in touch still through Facebook, but I admit it'd be tough to hang out with my childhood friends now (except one who was my closest friend growing up).
I think from everything you've said, you've grown apart from these groups of friends. Especially in 20's, people grow and change at such different rates. You can be sad a friend is changing, but they may need to do crazy silly things to figure out what they want out of life. Who knows, maybe they will get some things out of their system, and one day will be up for movies/dinner kind of stuff again and at that time in your lives you'll all reconnect. Everyone goes through phases and you have to just respect them and maybe even cheer them on from afar if you are not interested in going with them on certain paths.
PPs have made excellent points, so all I have left to say is this:
People who use the word "govern" anywhere near the word "marriage" creep me out.
If either DH or myself needed to be governed or govern our marriage in any capacity, we would not be married.
This. I always tell my single friends who say, "I wish I was married" that every relationship is different, since no two couples are the same. What worked for our parents and grandparents may not work for us- simply because we live in a different world. If marriage isn't an equal partnership that's completely natural for you, then something's wrong.
I TOTALLY get what you mean. I'm an introvert as well, and my husband and are and have never been been huge partiers. We'll still go to bars and parties every now and then, but never without each other. Also, sleepovers? I don't know about other people, but this lady loves her bed. I don't want to stay anywhere overnight unless I absolutely have to. My hubster and I are extremely laid back. I'd ten to one rather stay at home, drink wine, and watch a movie than go out. It sounds like your friends are in totally different places than you guys. I think they're being extremely tactless to not realize that they're putting you both in awkward positions. It sounds like you've done all you can to see them under more appropriate terms. If they can't go to a movie or have a girls night in at home, then that's just ridiculous. Who wants to go out all the time anyways!? I am wayyyy too lazy to do that every weekend. Things just change when you get married (for the better!). They'll understand that one day.
yeah i agree..there are so many things you can do if you are creative..like checking out some site like japanese fashion clothing..