Pittsburgh Nesties
MandyMilller
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Are our kids spoiled?
Does anyone care to discuss? It's long, but interesting.
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2012/07/02/120702crbo_books_kolbert?currentPage=all
DH and I are in a constant battle with wanting to make our kids happy in life, but without spoiling them. It's a tough balance!
Re: Are our kids spoiled?
Oh yea, we have the only grandchild force working against us as well...
I worry about the same thing. We also have the whole first grandchild on both sides thing going on.
On a related note, I also find myself wondering if maybe we do too much with the kids...is that possible? Back story: it has just worked out for the past 2 or 3 months, we've been pretty busy on the weekends. Trips out of town, play dates scheduled on the weekends, friends and grandparents coming to visit, birthday parties, etc... There were very few weekend days where we didn't have something going on. And sometimes in between those scheduled things, we would just go to the zoo, or pool, or park or whatever.
Just yesterday, Jake asked me what we were doing this weekend. I said we didn't have anything going on Saturday, and that we have a bday party on Sunday. He stared at me for a minute & said "well, what about Saturday? What are we going to do?" again, I said nothing, that we'd just hang out & play at the house. All of a sudden, this seemed like a foreign concept to him! He was like, "Well, where are we going to go? What are we going to do all day?" um...we're going to play. here at home. with all of your 59,678 toys!!!!
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
We have the only grandchild(ren) thing working against us on my H's side too, and they are over-the-top in that way to begin with so it's super hard! Although we do have to take some responsibility for the spoiling.
However, I don't necessarily think that our kids will be eternal adolescents as a result of us not assigning them too much responsibility at the age of 8, or ignoring them when they cry, etc. (as the article suggests). Yes, they'd lack survival skills if they had to fend for themselves in the wild as compared to children in the other cultures they're using as a reference, but they would also likely excel in areas that are also important vs. kids from other cultures.
Is it such a bad thing that we now have spaces in our homes dedicated to our kids (again something the article implied)? Maybe it's a sign that they have too much "stuff," but it's also an outward expression of how important they are in our lives. My #1 requirement when we decided to move was that the kids have a playroom because I wanted them to love being in our house as much as we did. If DH is getting his man cave and I'm getting my walk-in closet, shouldn't they get something for themselves too?
I just don't know that teaching them to hunt at 6 years old, or to wait 5 minutes when they're crying before attending to them, is relevant to raising more competent adults.
What an interesting read, thanks so much for posting, Mandy.
Gabriel is still at the stage where spoiling is impossible - but we hope against hope that we're not "those" parents when he's older. We talk about it all the time. However, I've already eaten my words on many "...I'll never..." moments in the four short months that I've been a mom.
I have seen the damage the style of parenting in the LA examples has done to a close family member. She is 22 years old, but at the functional level of a 15 year old - and even that is being generous. She is incapable of being bored b/c her entire life was overscheduled. If she ever uttered the words, "I'm bored." her mother would spring into action immediately and start planning something fun either for the immediate or some lavish vacation, "for her to look forward to", no exaggeration.
She wasn't quite the "tie my shoes for me" kid - but she definitely didn't want for anything and I think that's given her an extremely skewed view of how the world really works.
Her mother was definitely the snow-plow parent. She would remove any barrier for her, so much so, that when she started college and was registering for classes only to find a class she really needed was full (b/c she waited way too long to register) her mother got on the phone with the registrar, the head of the department, and eventually made her way to the university president. All so she could take "Class 101," ya know?
Her college career ended at the sophomore year b/c she just couldn't handle it, and I really believe that she was not given the tools nor the confidence to handle anything on her own.
I could really write a novel on this particular situation and I try not to judge b/c I have NO idea how I'm going to be as a parent, but that family situation has definitely given me some things to avoid.
I know my kids are spoiled...I do try to limit what I get them, and I don't run out and buy something the minute that it's requested, but my children definitely have more than they need.
We travel with them a good bit, take them away on the weekends fairly regularly, and keep pretty active with things to do. I get so frustrated when Jackson asks me why he can't have something, and when I explain that he has enough toys, etc, he gets angry with me. He also tells me he doesn't like school because he has more toys at home...that one makes me want to scream! I explain that if that's the case, we'll be choosing several to give to little kids who need toys, and have him pick a few, but it's so frustrating!
I'll have to read this later too. I think our kids are spoiled.... it's a tough balance wanting to give them what they want and not giving in to their every demand. Plus, hubby & I aren't always on the same page in terms of how much we should be spoiling the kids. I love to shop and have two girly girls that enjoy it too, so thats often what we end up doing.
We had a donation truck pick-up this morning and I gave away a ton of toys that the girls have outgrown. S was upset and went into a major tantrum, so hubby told her we'd go to the toy store and she could pick a new toy. I wish I'd been there to give my usual speech about helping little boys & girls that don't have as many toys as we do.... hubby went right to the present to fix the problem.
On the flip side of what I just said, while I don't think the article was fair in a lot of ways, I will acknowledge that my kids are also overscheduled and have WAY too much. And I am too quick to help with things vs. letting them be challenged/frustrated/etc. b/c I just don't want to deal with tantrums.
However, they are so sweet at the core that I feel like we must be doing something right, and we have some time to work on the spoiled behavior as they develop more maturity. Maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel better
As stated by Ryan, I do a LOT of things I said I would never do as a parent. It just isn't as easy to take a hard line as it appeared it would be when it's your own child staring back at you imploring you to make them smile!
Oh yeah, this is the other thing we struggle with. Can Jake put on his own shoes and coat? Yes. Do we always have time when rushing out the door to allow him to take the 5 minutes of messing around that doing it by himself requires? no. But I know that I should. But sometimes it's just so much easier to do things myself, than let him struggle.
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
That was a very interesting article, and it's something I think about. Working with graduate students gives me a view of the next generation - and sometimes it really scares me that these are the people who will be taking care of me when I'm old! (They email me for something they could very easily google and find the answer...but they're lazy and it's easier to make me do it for them. And these are SMART kids who are attending a program in the school of computer science...so googling should be 2nd nature to them!)
I'm trying to get Noah to be more responsible and do more for himself - he's 7, so he's perfectly capable. Bathing, cleaning up, putting his shoes on, etc. Some days he scoffs, but I am trying. We're also starting him on some chores.
Like Ryan I have some family examples that I try to not do what they're doing. One family member still does/helps her child with homework...and he's in highschool! That's not teaching him responsibility or study skills - something he's going to need when his mom can't do it for him when he's away at college. And another still orders in a restaurant for her 12 year old. (I make my 7 and 2 year olds order themselves!)
As to the article, I hope to find a good ?in between? place with our kids. I don?t expect them to cut the lawn with a machete, but I also will not be tying their shoes when they are 8 years old. They definitely will be getting more responsibility around the house in the next few years, but I also find it daunting when having them do something causes MORE work for me, when I already feel totally overwhelmed by how much there is to do. The kids bring their plates to the kitchen every night after dinner. Each time that one of them drops their whole plate on the floor and I have to help them clean the floor, I try to remind myself that this is a good thing to teach them for the long run?
I am also feeling like we are doing too much. On Saturday morning while we were packing to go camping, Heather played with her toys for hours while I was getting ready. And I realized while she was doing it that I couldn?t remember the last time I had seen her like that. Probably not for a month or two. Part of that is that the kids have been playing in the backyard while I make dinner, but part of it is that we just haven?t been home much. The kids and DH are on vacation this week, and I keep trying to suggest that they just spend one quiet day at home?but I don?t think it is going to happen.
I feel like I have been thinking about these issues constantly lately. Heather is old enough to take on more responsibility and I am struggling with the whining and battles that ensue with trying to make that happen. She has days when she responds really well and is helpful, and other days when even asking her to put her dirty laundry in her hamper causes a dramatic response. I feel like we need to find a new balance now that the kids are older. A routine that involves purging old toys when we get new ones, a routine where the kids have more regular responsibilities and clean up after themselves more and a calendar that is less packed with constant activity.
Understandably, part of that last one has been influenced by things out of our control ? travel for wedding and funerals, travel to support family and friends after funerals, travel/visits to spend time with family that don?t live in Pittsburgh, and general activity to take advantage of summer weather/activities?but the stuff that is under our control is getting out of hand.
Lastly, it feels like having more time in our lives would also help with making the kids be more independent. If we weren?t so busy, it wouldn?t be such a big deal to make the kids do what needs to be done no matter how long it takes. Too many nights we let putting toys away slide because we need to get the kids to bed on time because of when we get them up. And if our weekends weren?t so packed, we could use part of the weekend time to clean up (no matter how long it takes the kids to do it?) and at least start the week with a clean slate.
I was talking to a friend about this. Her friend is a single mom and decided it was an absolute priority for her kids to clean up after themselves. She said that for a year or two, they were always late to everything because she wouldn?t leave the house until the kids had dressed themselves and cleaned up their toys. Basically, they never went on to another activity until they had cleaned up from the previous one. And now the kids are in grade school and clean up after themselves without being asked. So was it worth it to be late to everything for a while in order to teach the kids to help out?
As for the stuff, we are due for another purging. I think the grandparents buy them too much and DH is easily swayed to buy them something anytime they are in a store?but I?m working on him to get the random purchases down. I rarely let them choose anything to buy when they go with me to the store (unless it is something I know they need) and we really only buy them presents for birthday and Christmas. I prefer to treat them by doing things together rather than buying them stuff. We are trying to figure out how to start doing allowances, etc.
No, because that gives me MY space back!
Now who's the spoiled one?!
I think a lot of kids ARE spoiled out there, and to some extent I know my boys can be. However, my DH grew up in a very different financial and cultural background; he hates having things to do on the weekends and thinks it spoils the kids too much. So, I guess we err on the side of doing less to have lower expectations!
My three sons!
Didn't read the article, but in a word, yes. I am trying really hard to make sure my daughter grows up to be mannered, respectful, independent, and can care for herself the way she should based on her age. Amelia has many chores now. It is her job to sort the recycling, bring in the garbage can (it's on wheels) and recycling bins, puts away her laundry, keep her room clean (getting containers for everything was key to this), putting away the silverware and kiddo dishes out of the dishwasher, cleaning up yard toys...something that tends to go by the wayside when we are outside late and I just want everyone in. She bathes herself pretty much entirely on her own...occasionally I need to help her rinse out of her hair. She likes to sweep, too. She helps me water the garden and such as well.
I realized when she got a Leap Pad for her birthday and she just thought she could ask me to put apps and e-books on it for her (you know, at 10 and 20 bucks a pop) and I'd do it, that she needed more jobs to earn these things. That's when I started adding more responsibilities. She also has to take her plate to the kitchen and put her milk cup back in the fridge (was so sick of wasting milk). It's a work in progress. We, as parents, aren't always the best at reinforcing, but I'm trying hard because at five, she takes a lot of liberties! One of the things we have changed with playdates with other kids is that they have to help clean up before they leave. It may not be all the toys, but it is the bulk of them. Her and her friends are 5, this is not too much to ask. I am done cleaning up toys for them.
I don't feel we are overscheduled. I am holding strong on that one...for now. I was a nanny for kids that were overscheduled and they seriously didn't know how to just play at home without a structured activity. The parents always wanted me to be going somewhere with them or they had a sport or instrument filling their time. I hope I can hold to the kids doing one sport and one instrument if they want later. I feel really lucky that we have a lot of kids nearby that she can run around with and she does that for hours every day. It has cut out so much tv time, keeps her active, and they genuinely have fun together. I'm not saying if you are super scheduled that your kids are ruined, I'm just going by what my experience has been. And largely, it's a selfish reason. I don't feel like running all over the place every day. I have stuff to do, too!
Sure, we love activities as much as everyone else, but the majority of her day is spent playing at home or with neighbors. If she needs to be disciplined, taking away play time with neighbor kids kills her, so it gets the message across. I've been getting more strict, but it is hard to be the bad guy!
seyi abigail born 2007
kayode elijah born 2012
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