Live-in BIL.....does this make me selfish?

britt1804 · August 2012

Hi All,

So my 20 year old BIL moved in with my husband and I 3 months after our wedding (we were married on April 9, 2011). Their hometown is full of crime and he moved down to go to school ad stay out of trouble. I haven't really been happy about it, but I've compromised (I don't know how many arguments we've had in this past year). Hubby told me that he'll give him a year to get established and then he would be out by August. Fast forward to now, I asked him about the status of his brother moving out and he flips out on me. He says it's not that easy. I say he's not teaching him any responsibility (BIL doesn't offer to pay any bills and he's given us money for groceries once). He'll do it only if my husband tells him too. He can afford it. He works a full-time job with only a cell phone bill and gas to pay for.

My husband thinks he's obligated to help him succeed, I agree but I'm ready for our house to be our house again. After the convo we had today, I don't think he'll ever move. I'm considering moving out because it's getting to the point where I don't even want to come home (sad, but true). I'm trying to get my husband, his brother, and I to sit down and determine a deadline for him to move out.....that's not working out too well either. Any suggestions would be helpful (Other than couples therapy, it's been nayed as well).

Thanks!

TarponMonoxide · August 2012

Is this a college kid?

Why can't he live in the dorm, get his own off campus apartment or find 2 or 3 other students he can room with in a town not far from the school?

There are also boarding houses for students and one room rentals, that are for students. This is what your BIL needs to investigate on hi own: getting a place to live that is NOT your home.

You and he should have throughly discussed the topic of BIL moving in and then you and he together should have decided on a solution satisfactory to you both.

The BIL needs to go -- and when you agreed that he move in, there should have been house rules for the BIL: he pays room and board, keeps his room neat, music to a low roar, does his own laundry and is more or less a houseguest And you should have discussed what penalty any violation of said rules would have.

He's got a full time job; he can afford at the very least, a room that he can rent. He needs to go and ASAP.

And you and your H need to learn how to make decisions as a team and together; you also need counseling for the arguments. GL.

Belichick · August 2012

I would move out. He's not interested in compromise or therapy and he's made clear that his brother comes before you, that's not a marriage I could stay in. Sorry you're dealing with this.

My2cents4u · August 2012

Sounds like the only one who will be moving is you. The BIL has it made and so no reason for him to want to leave. Your H thinks it is fine to have him there and feels responsible. It is misguided he thinks he is helping him when he is not teaching him adult responsibilities. He doesn't even care if it affects your marriage. Get therapy for yourself.

I wouldn't be buying groceries for either one of them. If it is your home then why aren't you asking BIL to chip in yourself? Your H could tell him to chip in and then save the money to give him in 6 months to move out if he thinks asking a grown man to pay his way is wrong.

Tofumonkey · August 2012

So... you and your husband have more or less taken over the role of their parents?

That just seems so strange.

mrsbiss2be · August 2012

Yikes. This is a sucky situation. He first off should have never moved in with your right after the wedding. That's beyond imposing.

Have you talked to your husband about you considering moving out? You might want to bring it up so it will give him an idea of how serious you are!

Sounds to me that the bil is taking advantage of the situation and it's gotta stop SOON!

Tofumonkey · August 2012

I wouldn't threaten moving out unless you really, truly mean it. Don't dish out empty threats.

I'd put it to your husband that you didn't expect to be suddenly parenting a 20 year old and that it's not just a money issue of him not contributing, but that you are uncomfortable with the situation, do not feel happy at home and feel that this is stress that you don't need in your marriage. Point out to your husband that he can help his brother get on his feet (the operative phrase here) in other ways.

He is already working, you guys can help him to find a house or flat-share. Help him find and buy his own car. Have him over for a regular dinner each week and offer that he can do his laundry during that time as well. Give him some of your old furniture.

There are loads of ways to help people without enabling them and having them live off of you.

Tofumonkey · August 2012

Some people may not agree with me on this, but I would also start making it less comfortable and convenient for him to be living there.

he gets a shelf in the fridge. If he didn't buy it, he doesn't eat/drink it. He gets a cupboard as well, and if you are making dinner, make enough for you and your husband and assume that BIL is going to cook something for himself out of his own stuff that he purchased. Like a proper roomate. You order pizza? He chips in 1/3 or he doesn't eat it.
He needs to buy his own laundry detergent. If he has a separate bathroom, he buys his own toiletries, toilet paper, etc. and is responsible for cleaning it.
He's not paying rent? If that's what your husband is cool with to help him out, fine. But he should at least be paying 1/3 of household bills. He doesn't pay them? Change the internet password until his payment portion for internet comes through.
You come home and he's watching a show in the living room on your TV? Sit down and change the channel to something that you or your husband want to watch together. It's your living room, your TV, your cable, your remote, your home. Don't be a right snot about it, but be firm and clear that this is your home and he is a guest - a temporary guest, and that when you get home to YOUR HOME that you will carry on with your plans for your evening / day in YOUR HOME without disruption.
He leaves a mess? it ends up on his bed.
He lives there so he needs to clean the house just like the two of you. We tidy our home every night after the kids go to bed, and I'd be handing him a mop, a toilet brush or a vacuum every time you and your husband start cleaning.
Have friends over. Cuddle up and watch movies with your husband in the living room with popcorn and a blanket for 2. He'll be uncomfortable as hell after about the 3rd time.

My view is that all of this will not push him away, but will teach him some responsibility (buying and prepping his own food, paying bills, etc.) and also make him crave more independence and he'll realize that it's time to be out on his own at this point.

At the end of the day, he is still family and I think that you should always help family - he's going to be a permanent fixture in your lives regardless of how this turns out so try not to make things too negative or cause fights. It doesn't have to be difficult, but it could be a way to be firm and improve the situation for at least yourself in a fair and reasonable way.

At the same time, cut him a bit of slack and think back to your 20 year old self - my 20 year old self would probably gladly live somewhere without paying rent or bills without even thinking about how much of an imposition it is, I'd probably eat someone else's food without much thought, leave a mess here and there and not think as much about other people than I did at 25 and do now in my early 30's. I think that's pretty natural, and often all that is needed is for someone to ease them into the general direction of awareness of their surroundings and the people they are imposing upon to make some big changes.

jnjmommy0609 · August 2012

Tofumonkey:
Some people may not agree with me on this, but I would also start making it less comfortable and convenient for him to be living there.
he gets a shelf in the fridge. If he didn't buy it, he doesn't eat/drink it. He gets a cupboard as well, and if you are making dinner, make enough for you and your husband and assume that BIL is going to cook something for himself out of his own stuff that he purchased. Like a proper roomate. You order pizza? He chips in 1/3 or he doesn't eat it.
He needs to buy his own laundry detergent. If he has a separate bathroom, he buys his own toiletries, toilet paper, etc. and is responsible for cleaning it.
He's not paying rent? If that's what your husband is cool with to help him out, fine. But he should at least be paying 1/3 of household bills. He doesn't pay them? Change the internet password until his payment portion for internet comes through.
You come home and he's watching a show in the living room on your TV? Sit down and change the channel to something that you or your husband want to watch together. It's your living room, your TV, your cable, your remote, your home. Don't be a right snot about it, but be firm and clear that this is your home and he is a guest - a temporary guest, and that when you get home to YOUR HOME that you will carry on with your plans for your evening / day in YOUR HOME without disruption.
He leaves a mess? it ends up on his bed.
He lives there so he needs to clean the house just like the two of you. We tidy our home every night after the kids go to bed, and I'd be handing him a mop, a toilet brush or a vacuum every time you and your husband start cleaning.
Have friends over. Cuddle up and watch movies with your husband in the living room with popcorn and a blanket for 2. He'll be uncomfortable as hell after about the 3rd time.
My view is that all of this will not push him away, but will teach him some responsibility (buying and prepping his own food, paying bills, etc.) and also make him crave more independence and he'll realize that it's time to be out on his own at this point.
At the end of the day, he is still family and I think that you should always help family - he's going to be a permanent fixture in your lives regardless of how this turns out so try not to make things too negative or cause fights. It doesn't have to be difficult, but it could be a way to be firm and improve the situation for at least yourself in a fair and reasonable way.
At the same time, cut him a bit of slack and think back to your 20 year old self - my 20 year old self would probably gladly live somewhere without paying rent or bills without even thinking about how much of an imposition it is, I'd probably eat someone else's food without much thought, leave a mess here and there and not think as much about other people than I did at 25 and do now in my early 30's. I think that's pretty natural, and often all that is needed is for someone to ease them into the general direction of awareness of their surroundings and the people they are imposing upon to make some big changes.

This times a thousand. Don't let your brother or husband run all over you. I am still speechless more over your husband. Your BIL is not even the main issue.

ReturnOfKuus · August 2012

Frankly, I think you should be making it unpleasant for your husband to live there, too, since he seems to think it's his house and he gets to make all the decisions about who lives there and for how long.

chiualover · August 2012

jnjmommy0609:
Tofumonkey:

Some people may not agree with me on this, but I would also start making it less comfortable and convenient for him to be living there.

he gets a shelf in the fridge. If he didn't buy it, he doesn't eat/drink it. He gets a cupboard as well, and if you are making dinner, make enough for you and your husband and assume that BIL is going to cook something for himself out of his own stuff that he purchased. Like a proper roomate. You order pizza? He chips in 1/3 or he doesn't eat it.

He needs to buy his own laundry detergent. If he has a separate bathroom, he buys his own toiletries, toilet paper, etc. and is responsible for cleaning it.

He's not paying rent? If that's what your husband is cool with to help him out, fine. But he should at least be paying 1/3 of household bills. He doesn't pay them? Change the internet password until his payment portion for internet comes through.

You come home and he's watching a show in the living room on your TV? Sit down and change the channel to something that you or your husband want to watch together. It's your living room, your TV, your cable, your remote, your home. Don't be a right snot about it, but be firm and clear that this is your home and he is a guest - a temporary guest, and that when you get home to YOUR HOME that you will carry on with your plans for your evening / day in YOUR HOME without disruption.

He leaves a mess? it ends up on his bed.

He lives there so he needs to clean the house just like the two of you. We tidy our home every night after the kids go to bed, and I'd be handing him a mop, a toilet brush or a vacuum every time you and your husband start cleaning.

Have friends over. Cuddle up and watch movies with your husband in the living room with popcorn and a blanket for 2. He'll be uncomfortable as hell after about the 3rd time.
My view is that all of this will not push him away, but will teach him some responsibility (buying and prepping his own food, paying bills, etc.) and also make him crave more independence and he'll realize that it's time to be out on his own at this point.

At the end of the day, he is still family and I think that you should always help family - he's going to be a permanent fixture in your lives regardless of how this turns out so try not to make things too negative or cause fights. It doesn't have to be difficult, but it could be a way to be firm and improve the situation for at least yourself in a fair and reasonable way.

At the same time, cut him a bit of slack and think back to your 20 year old self - my 20 year old self would probably gladly live somewhere without paying rent or bills without even thinking about how much of an imposition it is, I'd probably eat someone else's food without much thought, leave a mess here and there and not think as much about other people than I did at 25 and do now in my early 30's. I think that's pretty natural, and often all that is needed is for someone to ease them into the general direction of awareness of their surroundings and the people they are imposing upon to make some big changes.

This times a thousand. Don't let your brother or husband run all over you. I am still speechless more over your husband. Your BIL is not even the main issue.

Yes

I am also shocked that your IL's didn't sit him down before

he moved in and explain all of this to him. I agree that

20 year olds probably wouldn't think about any of this,

he should have had guidance from his parents.

I also think your husband is very wrong.

mrsbiss2be · August 2012

Tofumonkey:

Some people may not agree with me on this, but I would also start making it less comfortable and convenient for him to be living there.

he gets a shelf in the fridge. If he didn't buy it, he doesn't eat/drink it. He gets a cupboard as well, and if you are making dinner, make enough for you and your husband and assume that BIL is going to cook something for himself out of his own stuff that he purchased. Like a proper roomate. You order pizza? He chips in 1/3 or he doesn't eat it.

He needs to buy his own laundry detergent. If he has a separate bathroom, he buys his own toiletries, toilet paper, etc. and is responsible for cleaning it.

He's not paying rent? If that's what your husband is cool with to help him out, fine. But he should at least be paying 1/3 of household bills. He doesn't pay them? Change the internet password until his payment portion for internet comes through.

You come home and he's watching a show in the living room on your TV? Sit down and change the channel to something that you or your husband want to watch together. It's your living room, your TV, your cable, your remote, your home. Don't be a right snot about it, but be firm and clear that this is your home and he is a guest - a temporary guest, and that when you get home to YOUR HOME that you will carry on with your plans for your evening / day in YOUR HOME without disruption.

He leaves a mess? it ends up on his bed.

He lives there so he needs to clean the house just like the two of you. We tidy our home every night after the kids go to bed, and I'd be handing him a mop, a toilet brush or a vacuum every time you and your husband start cleaning.

Have friends over. Cuddle up and watch movies with your husband in the living room with popcorn and a blanket for 2. He'll be uncomfortable as hell after about the 3rd time.
My view is that all of this will not push him away, but will teach him some responsibility (buying and prepping his own food, paying bills, etc.) and also make him crave more independence and he'll realize that it's time to be out on his own at this point.

At the end of the day, he is still family and I think that you should always help family - he's going to be a permanent fixture in your lives regardless of how this turns out so try not to make things too negative or cause fights. It doesn't have to be difficult, but it could be a way to be firm and improve the situation for at least yourself in a fair and reasonable way.

At the same time, cut him a bit of slack and think back to your 20 year old self - my 20 year old self would probably gladly live somewhere without paying rent or bills without even thinking about how much of an imposition it is, I'd probably eat someone else's food without much thought, leave a mess here and there and not think as much about other people than I did at 25 and do now in my early 30's. I think that's pretty natural, and often all that is needed is for someone to ease them into the general direction of awareness of their surroundings and the people they are imposing upon to make some big changes.

THIS I gotta say is an EXCELLENT idea!

alithebride · August 2012

mrsbiss2be:
Tofumonkey:

Some people may not agree with me on this, but I would also start making it less comfortable and convenient for him to be living there.

he gets a shelf in the fridge. If he didn't buy it, he doesn't eat/drink it. He gets a cupboard as well, and if you are making dinner, make enough for you and your husband and assume that BIL is going to cook something for himself out of his own stuff that he purchased. Like a proper roomate. You order pizza? He chips in 1/3 or he doesn't eat it.

He needs to buy his own laundry detergent. If he has a separate bathroom, he buys his own toiletries, toilet paper, etc. and is responsible for cleaning it.

He's not paying rent? If that's what your husband is cool with to help him out, fine. But he should at least be paying 1/3 of household bills. He doesn't pay them? Change the internet password until his payment portion for internet comes through.

You come home and he's watching a show in the living room on your TV? Sit down and change the channel to something that you or your husband want to watch together. It's your living room, your TV, your cable, your remote, your home. Don't be a right snot about it, but be firm and clear that this is your home and he is a guest - a temporary guest, and that when you get home to YOUR HOME that you will carry on with your plans for your evening / day in YOUR HOME without disruption.

He leaves a mess? it ends up on his bed.

He lives there so he needs to clean the house just like the two of you. We tidy our home every night after the kids go to bed, and I'd be handing him a mop, a toilet brush or a vacuum every time you and your husband start cleaning.

Have friends over. Cuddle up and watch movies with your husband in the living room with popcorn and a blanket for 2. He'll be uncomfortable as hell after about the 3rd time.
My view is that all of this will not push him away, but will teach him some responsibility (buying and prepping his own food, paying bills, etc.) and also make him crave more independence and he'll realize that it's time to be out on his own at this point.

At the end of the day, he is still family and I think that you should always help family - he's going to be a permanent fixture in your lives regardless of how this turns out so try not to make things too negative or cause fights. It doesn't have to be difficult, but it could be a way to be firm and improve the situation for at least yourself in a fair and reasonable way.

At the same time, cut him a bit of slack and think back to your 20 year old self - my 20 year old self would probably gladly live somewhere without paying rent or bills without even thinking about how much of an imposition it is, I'd probably eat someone else's food without much thought, leave a mess here and there and not think as much about other people than I did at 25 and do now in my early 30's. I think that's pretty natural, and often all that is needed is for someone to ease them into the general direction of awareness of their surroundings and the people they are imposing upon to make some big changes.

THIS I gotta say is an EXCELLENT idea!

I totally agree!!

britt1804 · August 2012

Thanks for all of your replies and suggestions. BIL is a college student at a community college. There's no housing there and his grades weren't good enough for a 4 year school. I convinced my husband that we need to sit down with his brother and discuss his deadline for moving. He had finally realized its his bro or me. He actually stated that we have forever together and that two years of his bro living with us shouldn't hurt. I told him that forever is definitely not promised these days.

Hopefully, all will change for the better.

SueBear · August 2012

Tofumonkey:

Some people may not agree with me on this, but I would also start making it less comfortable and convenient for him to be living there.

he gets a shelf in the fridge. If he didn't buy it, he doesn't eat/drink it. He gets a cupboard as well, and if you are making dinner, make enough for you and your husband and assume that BIL is going to cook something for himself out of his own stuff that he purchased. Like a proper roomate. You order pizza? He chips in 1/3 or he doesn't eat it.

He needs to buy his own laundry detergent. If he has a separate bathroom, he buys his own toiletries, toilet paper, etc. and is responsible for cleaning it.

He's not paying rent? If that's what your husband is cool with to help him out, fine. But he should at least be paying 1/3 of household bills. He doesn't pay them? Change the internet password until his payment portion for internet comes through.

You come home and he's watching a show in the living room on your TV? Sit down and change the channel to something that you or your husband want to watch together. It's your living room, your TV, your cable, your remote, your home. Don't be a right snot about it, but be firm and clear that this is your home and he is a guest - a temporary guest, and that when you get home to YOUR HOME that you will carry on with your plans for your evening / day in YOUR HOME without disruption.

He leaves a mess? it ends up on his bed.

He lives there so he needs to clean the house just like the two of you. We tidy our home every night after the kids go to bed, and I'd be handing him a mop, a toilet brush or a vacuum every time you and your husband start cleaning.

Have friends over. Cuddle up and watch movies with your husband in the living room with popcorn and a blanket for 2. He'll be uncomfortable as hell after about the 3rd time.
My view is that all of this will not push him away, but will teach him some responsibility (buying and prepping his own food, paying bills, etc.) and also make him crave more independence and he'll realize that it's time to be out on his own at this point.

At the end of the day, he is still family and I think that you should always help family - he's going to be a permanent fixture in your lives regardless of how this turns out so try not to make things too negative or cause fights. It doesn't have to be difficult, but it could be a way to be firm and improve the situation for at least yourself in a fair and reasonable way.

At the same time, cut him a bit of slack and think back to your 20 year old self - my 20 year old self would probably gladly live somewhere without paying rent or bills without even thinking about how much of an imposition it is, I'd probably eat someone else's food without much thought, leave a mess here and there and not think as much about other people than I did at 25 and do now in my early 30's. I think that's pretty natural, and often all that is needed is for someone to ease them into the general direction of awareness of their surroundings and the people they are imposing upon to make some big changes.

This is a great idea in theory, but if her H isn't backing her up, many of these things won't really work. The OP would have to be the food shelf police, the laundry detergent police, hope that her H doesn't give away the internet PW, etc.

OP - I'm glad your H finally sees that you are serious! I hope your meeting goes well!

EastCoastBride · August 2012

britt1804:

I say he's not teaching him any responsibility ......

My husband thinks he's obligated to help him succeed,

These two statements stood out. I agree w/ you - he's not teaching him responsibility, and in turn, because of that, his brother WILL NOT succeed. Point this out to your DH.

Good luck.

And I agree w/ the last poster- while I love the concept of Tofu's advice, if your DH isn't on the same page as you, all it will do is make YOU the police AND the badguy that they will BOTH be pissed at.

Tofumonkey · August 2012

EastCoastBride:
britt1804:

I say he's not teaching him any responsibility ......

My husband thinks he's obligated to help him succeed,
These two statements stood out. I agree w/ you - he's not teaching him responsibility, and in turn, because of that, his brother WILL NOT succeed. Point this out to your DH.
Good luck.

And I agree w/ the last poster- while I love the concept of Tofu's advice, if your DH isn't on the same page as you, all it will do is make YOU the police AND the badguy that they will BOTH be pissed at.

I do agree with Suebear and Eastcoastbride (I usually do) that your husband needs to be on board with this for it to have any effect. He needs to agree that these are the expectations and this is how you are going to enforce them.

I do also think, though, that if your husband isn't on board with making changes then it is clear that your relationship and marriage as a "partnership" needs serious reflection.

Live-in BIL.....does this make me selfish?

Re: Live-in BIL.....does this make me selfish?

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