Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
My family driving me insane... (venting)
I guess I should start from the beginning; this may be long:
I was raised in a very religiously divided household. Mother and 1 aunt are methodist, another aunt is baptist. My step-mother is catholic, along with most of her family. My dad is athiest, as well as my older sister and younger brother. My younger sister is going to a baptist church with her dad's family. On top of that, my mother was married 5 times, and each of her husbands had their own religion. So I never really went to church at all (I think maybe 5 times my whole childhood). No one in my family ever talked about God or the bible or anything like that. So when I met DH (we were just friends at the time- not even thinking about dating) and found out he was a JW, I was really interested. So I studied it and really liked it and became one myelf. My whole family went crazy. They all said I was being brainwashed and blah blah blah. That was 4 years ago and they have since gotten over it. Or so I thought...
JW don't celebrate birthdays or holidays, so I told my family that I wouldn't be doing those things with them anymore. DH and I still try to visit everyone as much as we can (a few times a month) so they don't feel like we don't care about them, which of course I do; they are my family and I love them. Anyway, my older sister told me that when the rest of the family gets together for birtdays/holidays they just sit around and bash me and say that I think I'm too good for my family. I don't even understand where they get this thought?? I keep in touch with my mom via texting, phone calls, and FB a few times a week, and the same goes for my dad.
The thing that is really bugging me is that my mom, her two sisters, my two sisters, and one of my sister's H and DD went to visit my grandma a few weekends ago and no one told me. I haven't seen her in over two years! She lives kind of far away, so it's hard for me and DH to visit her. So last night I got on FB and I had a message from her saying that she was so hurt that DH and I didn't come visit with everyone else and that we are being selfish by not hanging out with my family (DH and I just went on a cruise with his, so I guess my grandma thinks we picked that over visiting her?)... NO ONE TOLD US that the family was planning a trip to see her! I can't read people's minds!!!
It just sucks because I feel like I can't win with my family... When I do keep in touch with them, they seem fine. But then one holiday or birthday comes around and it's like they hate me and DH.
/vent
Re: My family driving me insane... (venting)
you not celebrating your birthday is one thing. not celebrating others birthdays is another issue. and holidays. frankly i'd probably sit around and talk about you too and why you can't find it within your religious self to celebrate something for someone else. i see it this way-you make your bed you sleep in it. you have 2 options-either continue what you're doing now and just take the heat for your choices OR learn that it's ok to celebrate something else that you may not if it's important to that person/group of people.
so tell your grandmother that no one told you they were going to visit her.
and yes-i see why your family is irritated at you. you suddently stopped going to any kind of family celebrations because of your new religion. so you are totally choosing that over seeing yuor family during holidays or significant days. if you want to keep doing what you're doing remember-you can't have it both ways.
In my religion it's not ok to celebrate those things- which is why I don't do it. I could care less if you want to talk bad about me/my beleifs, because I am used to strangers doing that. What I DON'T appreciate is when my own family does it. I do not bash their beliefs, why do they get to bash mine? Why should I be the only one giving in to someone else? Like, why should I be the one changing my beliefs to make my family happy? Why can't they do the same for me? And as I mentioned before, I see my family a few times a month. DH and I invite them over for dinners and play dates and other events. I do that because I love them and do want to spend time with them. Why do people think the only "good" time to spend time with your family is during a holiday? Why can't you do it other times, too? They are seeing me more now than they would if we did celebrate holidays.
I would understand their frustrations if they never saw us at all, or if we never called, or if we ignored them, but that is just not the case. DH and I are trying to keep our families happy and spend time with everyone. I am agitated that my family does not appreciate that.
i didn't bash your religion. perhaps it's that automatic assumption that makes them think you think you're better than them. go back and read what I wrote.
i'm catholic. do you think i'd miss a jewish wedding or a hindu celebration of close friends just because i'm of a different religion and have different beliefs? nope. not a chance. just because I'm there helping them celebrate what THEY celebrate doesnt mean that i have to believe what they're celebrating. same for you.
as I said-you make your bed, you sleep in it and you can't have it both ways wtih your family apparently. so you have the choice i wrote above-take the heat or suck it up. it's your choice.
you know why they bash? because to them it's weird. honestly it's a bit strange to me too. i'm not saying its wrong but it's strange because i've always been brought up to celebrate with others no matter what religion they or I am.
and showing up for dinner once in a while instead of birthdays or family holiday celebrations, to them, is clearly not sufficient. perhaps in some families it's ok-but you're the odd man out and you choose to be like this. just because you go to a christmas dinner doesn't mean you have to believe in what they're celebrating-you clearly understand what you celebrate and what you dont and, seeing as they're not a religious family, i doubt that anyone wants to drag you to church. i guess-at the end of all of this-they're wondering-why can't you and DH just come and enjoy dinner with everyone?
I 110% agree with this! To me it sounds like you're automatically on the defensive and I can understand myself why they would speak about you behind your back.
It's irrelevent that you don't celebrate your birthday/Christmas/Easter...whatever. OUT OF RESPECT to your family you should visit them, wish them happy birthday or whatever occasion it is. You don't have to celebrate Christmas but make a freakin' visit and stop being selfish and making this about yourself!
I would tell them that if they can't accept you and your religion and values, then you are going to have to cut them off - then DO IT!!!
I am not a JW, but your family's actions are really appalling to me. Why would you want to visit / be friends with someone who told you they bash you when you aren't around on holidays? That is hateful and mean! They are not acting like people who love you!
Can I understand that they would feel upset that you aren't with them? Yes, of course - but they also need to show you some respect. Otherwise, you will not be contacting them all, even on non-holidays. And STICK TO IT!!!
Are there any other JWs in your (church? meeting hall?) that you can talk to about ways to solve this problem? It must be a common problem for JWs.
However, on the grandma visit - if your whole family could visit her, then you and your H don't need an excuse to see her over a weekend. That is a choice YOU make. Don't blame them if you don't see your grandmother.
This is the most ignorant response I have read in a long while.
If I were an Orthodox Jew, should I sit down and have a ham and cheese sandwich because that is how the rest of my family celebrates? Respect goes two ways.
It sounds like your family is hurt that you are choosing this religion and DH over them. They aren't used to it. Just as you didn't grow up with the JW religion, they have not either.
I had a friend whose SIL became a JW and her entire family revolted similar to yours. it is very hard to going from celebrating bdays and Christmas to not.
It is sad they didn't include you in your visit to Gma. I would write back to GMa and say due to your religious differences you were excluded. Then ask her when you and DH can come for a weekend yourselves. Don't wait for your family - for any other relatives.
I do think you are going to have to make a choice to start limiting contact with your family. No, you cannot win unless you decide to not be a JW anymore.
I'm curious, is the family even inviting you over anymore for these celebrations? If they still are, politely decline due to your religious beliefs and ask if there is another time you can get together.
Lol clearly her family is ignorant. I wrote its her choice as obviously her family doesn't allow for mutual respect--not that they are right. But that's how they are or we wouldn't be answering this post would we?
I second the suggestion to talk to other JWs about how they've handled similar situations. I would imagine that this is probably a topic that others have faced too, so they might be able to give you good suggestions on how to handle this.
For the part of things where your family seems fine, but you find out later that they aren't: handle it by being direct. "Hey, when we talked about my being a JW and no longer participating in holidays or birthdays, I really thought that making the effort to see you at other times made it clear that it's the celebration I'm not participating in anymore for religious reasons- you are still just as important to me! Then I heard that at Auntie's birthday party, people were still upset that I and DH weren't there. Our intent isn't to upset you- we are not participating in that celebration for religious reasons. Do you have questions about why our religion does this, or do you wish I saw you more often at other times?"
And if they insist on saying that everything is fine and you keep hearing that when you're not there, they're talking about you, start asking the people who are telling you about it. "I'm really upset to hear that, since I feel like I've done everything I can to explain why we can't participate in birthdays/ holidays. Why are you telling me? Is there something else you think I should be doing to explain this?" They might be seeing something you're not (the way you're explaining, or the way the non-holiday visits are going that could be better)... or they might be exaggerating to stir up drama, and they'll backpedal.
For Grandma, I'd explain that you didn't know the family was visiting because they didn't tell you. And then say that you're so upset you didn't know, because you miss her and haven't seen her in so long- so when would be a good time for you to visit?
But YOUR answer to her post was to bash her religious choice. A main tenent in her denomination is NOT celebrating Holidays or Birthdays.
And your response is to have her GO TO A BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION. It IS analagous to demanding an Orthodox Jew eat a ham sandwich.
HELPFUL suggestions would be to sit down and talk to her family again. Discuss her situation with someone within her church. Grow a spine and tell Grandma that her family purposefully chose not to include her in the visit. Start distancing herself from them, etc.
Telling her
is pretty damn disrepectful and ignorant on your behalf too.
Actually, I think it's more analagous to suggesting she go sit and chat with her family while they eat ham. No one is telling her to ignore her religious beliefs. Just saying that you can still be included without eating, so to speak.
No, it's not. ATTENDING a birthday party is the same as "participating in" a party. Do you think just because she is not putting on a paper party hat and eating cake, she's not part of the celebration?
And do you think that her family would be content with her sitting in the corner, not interacting?
Yes, they are telling her to ignore her religions beliefs. That's what this post is about!!!
Can't....believe....ignorance...of...this board.
I agree with this posters replys.
I know a man & woman both raised catholic and converted to JW. They have basically alienated their familes because they wont attend ANY celbrations.I really cant understand any religion that would create such turmoil in families
Are you really that dense? What exactly is a party in your world? Becuase the definition of party is a social gathering that includes eating, drinking and entertaining.
So if the purpose of the social gathering is to celebrate a birthday or holiday, she CANNOT eat, drink or participate in the entertainment BECAUSE their sole purpose is to CELEBRATE something her religion doesn't believe in and specifically teaches against.
MORE IMPORTANTLY, if we follow your shortsighted view of just sitting there while everyone else eats, drinks and gets entertained (becuase again, she cannot participate in the actual activities of the party since those activities are being held specifically to celebrate a birthday or holiday) then why isn't her compromise of getting together right before or right after the event sufficient? At least then, she can do more than sit there?
I am done with this. Nothing I can write will get it through to you. Not wasting my time on it,
Thanks everyone for your input. I am going to try to address everyone's comments!
Bierfrau:
I don't think I have a "my way or the highway" attitude. I'm not sure where you are getting that from...
JNL$LSM and Msjen:
It is quite melodramatic to say my family has "lost a daughter." They see me and DH all the time. We include them in large family gathering's with DH's family, too, just so they can feel even more included. If my family members found a new religion and had to stop doing something I liked, for instance, getting together for dinner, yes, I would be sad. But I would also show respect towards them and their new beliefs. I wouldn't bash them for doing something that makes them happy, just because it inconveniences me.
Yes my family does still invite us to celebrations with them, and I tell them every single time that DH and I will not be there with them, but I hope they have a good time anyway. My family still tells me "Happy Birthday" every year, and I always say "thank you" and am very polite, even though they know I don't celebrate it.
Alithebride and mrsbiss2be:
I am not going to change the way I worship God to make my family happy. I'm sorry but I just won't do it. I don't see this as disrespectful towards my family- the fact that they (and you) think I should IS disrespectful though. I would't tell you that you worship incorrectly. That is just plain rude.
Wahoo, and Kimbus:
Kimbus, Wahoo said it best: going to a party and simply saying "I'm not celebrating," is pretty much celebrating. At least that's how JWs view it. If someone was to see me there while a party was going on, they would think "She is celebrating." So we don't go. That is the same for birthday parties, christmas, thanksgiving, etc.
As far as the situtation with my grandma is:
I called her yesterday after work and apologized that DH didn't come with everyone to see her. I said that we weren't told that a date was made to visit, but that we will try to visit her early next year (fall/winter are the busiest times for me and DH's jobs). She was very understanding and said she can't wait to see us. So, at least for now, all is fine. I'm just anticipating the blow-up that will happen when the holidays come around and we are not there.. again...
Why JW's don't celebrate holidays and birthdays:
This answer could go on forever, so I am going to give the most simplified answers possible. If you ahve more questions, PM me. **This is not meant to offend/upset anyone. I am not saying your religion is wrong if you worship differently. I am simply stating why we don't celebrate. Let's all be mature here!** Here goes!
Birthdays: Christians are supposed to be humble. Furthermore, Jesus is our example in everything we do. If he, the greatest man to ever walk the earth, didn't celebrate his birthday, why should we? Some people say "Well, it's a day to thank God for giving us one more year of life." To that, I say, "shouldn't we thank Him everyday? And not just make up a holiday for "Him" when all we really do that day is glorify ourselves?"
Christmas: The calendar used in Bible times put's Jesus birth in October/November of the calendar we use today. The bible says that shephards were living outside with their flocks at the time Jesus was born, therefor, we know it wasn't in December, because in December, it would have been too cold for that to be true in Bethlehem. Also, the Christmas tree started out as a Pagan symbol for another god- I can't remember the name of the god atm. The three "wise men" were actually astrologers sent by king herod to find out where Jeus was, so that the king could go find and kill him. This also goes back to the "Jesus didn't celebrate his birth" thing.
Thanksgiving and national/patriotic holidays: Every JW in the world all participate in the same things. For instance, if a JW in America was to celebrate the 4th of july, he/she would be different from a JW in Africa, where they don't celebrate it. And although we respect the countries we live in, we do not celebrate it or see it as better than other countries or nations. We all believe we belong to God's nation- so we are no part of this world. We put our faith in God, not men, which is why we are politically neutral and do not vote, too.
***Again, I am simply explaining why we do not celebrate holidays! I am not trying to mock your religion, and I'm sorry if you are offended- that is not my intention.
I highly doubt your friends just called up their parents and said "We're JWs now, I never want to speak to you again." What usually happens is the families of people who become JW's disassociate them from the rest of the family. Our religion doesn't create turmoil in families- people who are unwilling to respect our believes DOES.
Of course not. Just like my ultra vegan cousin does at thanksgiving and other family holiday meals-he brings his own food and enjoys it while we enjoy whatever everyone else cooks that isn't vegan. That's how the respect goes both ways.
I totally get that as a JW, you can't go to a family party. The very act of showing up there would be against the major tenets of your religion. And if that's what you believe, stand by it.
Having said that, I think you need to cut your family a little slack. Look at this from their point of view. For most of your life you've been a part of special occasions. Now, all of a sudden, you have a new set of beliefs (which must seem very foreign to them) and an important part of their celebrations is now missing. Truth be told, if my brother became a JW and stopped celebrating birthdays and holidays, I'd be crushed. I would understand that it's nothing personal against us, but still--I look forward to our big family Christmas celebrations every year, and it wouldn't be the same without him there. Sure, we might get together a few days after Christmas, but it still wouldn't be the same. And I know my parents would be devastated if he didn't call or acknowledge them on their birthdays.
I certainly don't think your family should all sit around bashing you when you aren't there, but again, a certain amount of talk is understandable. If my brother suddenly wasn't at Christmas because he'd converted to a brand new religion that no one in our family had much experience with, I'd probably want to talk about it with people who felt the same way as I did. It would be a pretty big elephant in the room at Christmas time...how could we not talk about it? Anyway, as I side note, I'd like to know what your relatives were actually saying when you weren't there. it seems unrealistic to me that they would spend hours just sitting around trash talking you. Is it possible that your sister exaggerated that a little? Really, you don't know for sure exactly what was said.
My suggestion is to keep doing what you're doing, continue making an effort to see your family, and keep explaining why you don't celebrate holidays, if the issue comes up. But just as you'd like them to understand you better, make an effort to understand where they're coming from as well.
Going to a party = celebrating / participating in the celebration.
You are as dumb as a bucket of dirt.
So if the purpose of the social gathering is to celebrate a birthday or holiday, she CANNOT eat, drink or participate in the entertainment BECAUSE their sole purpose is to CELEBRATE something her religion doesn't believe in and specifically teaches against.
MORE IMPORTANTLY, if we follow your shortsighted view of just sitting there while everyone else eats, drinks and gets entertained (becuase again, she cannot participate in the actual activities of the party since those activities are being held specifically to celebrate a birthday or holiday) then why isn't her compromise of getting together right before or right after the event sufficient? At least then, she can do more than sit there?
I am done with this. Nothing I can write will get it through to you. Not wasting my time on it,
I guess I consider "participating" to be showing up, wishing someone a happy birthday, singing, eating cake and bringing a present. Which, to me, is not the same thing as eating dinner and talking to friends and family while they do those things. I'm not Catholic. But that doesn't mean I won't go to a Catholic Church wedding because it isn't in line with my religion. I can still go, be respectful of the fact that my loved ones do believe in that faith and just not participate in the parts I feel are in opposition to my beliefs. People do things like this all the time. Especially now that interfaith marriages are much more common place. If OP feels different, no big deal. Don't go. I don't see how her suggestion of getting together with them before or after the event is any different though. It's still getting together for the reason of the birthday or holiday. Why not just ignore the events all together and see family when you want to see them? But don't get all upset when your family is confused and their feelings are hurt because all of a sudden they feel like you're rejecting them. Especially since most people don't consider things like birthdays to even have a religious element to them so they probably really just don't understand your reasoning.
But then again I'm shortsighted and dense so what do I know. I should ask for that $100,000 I spent on my religion degree back...