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Baptism (kind of long)
DH and I are TTC, and we recently started talking about how we are going to raise our hypothetical future progeny. DH's brother's child is about a year old, and we attended the baptism a few months ago. DH and BIL are twins and their mom made a baptism dress and slip that have been worn by all of their sisters (as well as DH and BIL). Niece wore the slip and a dress my BIL's MIL made. The slip has everyone's names embroidered on it. So, clearly, it's important to DH's family.
DH et al. were raised Lutheran, but as far as I can tell, they are a holidays-only family.
My parents didn't take me to church until I was 10, and only then under duress from my grandparents, who feared I wouldn't understand the recent death of an uncle without Christian guidance. In fact, my parents (who were raised Baptist and Protestant) chose a United Methodist church for our family because it was nearby, and a lot of their friends went there. We were active in the youth choir, attended youth group and went on mission trips, but I was always uncomfortable because I knew that I didn't have the faith that was expected of me. I mostly went to please my parents and to participate in the social aspects.
I rebelled against going in high school, and when I was home from college, but dad (who had admitted to me that he doesn't believe in Christ as a savior, and considers himself more "spiritual" than "religious") laid on a guilt trip about how it was hurting mom (who definitely identifies as Christian, even though towards the end of my time at home we only went to church on weeks when dad was doing a reading, or the youth choir was singing). All of this aside, I do have a very close relationship with both parents, and don't want to hurt them.
I strongly feel like baptizing our hypothetical future progeny would be the height of hypocrisy. DH and I have been together for almost ten years, and in that time we have only attended church when we were home with our families for Christmas. We never talk about God, pray, or participate in any other religious rituals. DH thinks we have to do it because our families expect it.
so.
1) which of us is right (on this subject, which I fully admit doesn't need to be decided today)?
2) how would we even go about finding a church that would baptize our HFP without expecting us to join up?
Re: Baptism (kind of long)
Have you looked into Unitarian Universalism? It is a non-dogmatic faith and does have blessing services for little ones. Since you don't have a baby yet, now might be an excellent time to check them out, maybe got to a service or two, congregation shop (each congregation tends to be different, depending on the make-up of its parishioners). While it does draw on some Judeo-Christian principals (which it sounds like would please your parents and ILs), it mainly has to do with the search for knowledge and the inherent worth of every person.
Because UUs aren't dogmatic and embrace facets of many religious and secular teachings, it is quite common for inter-faith couples to get married there or bring their children to RE. I am sure that a minister could help you come up with a service that wouldn't make you feel hypocritical but would still be meaningful. Even if a UU church isn't your answer, my guess would be that they would know of other couples in your situation and could help point you in the right direction.
That's just my two cents. PM me if you have any questions. :-)
Keep on discussing the topic.
The main thing: you and he are to decide what is right for you. Do not please your families. Please yourselves; don't worry about what they will say.
There are many religions you can look into --- look into the suggestions of PPs.
You might want to sit down and talk to somebody who you like and trust that is spiritual and religous -- a friend, a relative, a neighbor -- and see what they think.
Some people also have a baby naming ceremony. They DIY and there is no religious officiant involved.
You might also look into Lutheran, Episcopalian and Protestant churches --- and there are many other religions out there that are not "Western based" like Buddhism and Wiccan.
What matters is what is right for you and your child. GL.
I disgree with the previous posts in that you should find some other church or other religion to do a blessing or ceremony for your child if you don't beleive it...don't go looking for a new religion just because you might have a kid....if you don't strongly feel something is real..why would you attend (this coming from a pastors kid who is still strong in my belief in God). Don't do anything to appease the family...
HOWEVER: I think you need to have some serious conversation with your H. Does he not beleive in God/how he was raised spiritually? Because if he still beleives its important, I think you should respect him (and his family) by baptising the baby, but because its his kid too and he should have a say in if it will be raised in spiritual manner including being baptised or not. I personally don't beleive in baptising children as infants anyways....but if my H came to me and told me it was important to him and his family, I would honor that or if you are very uncomfortable with baptism could you ask if his church could do a blessing/dedication rather then a baptism....compromise is key as you already know being married.
Bottem Line: Do it if your H feels strongly about it, but don't do it because of family pressure otherwise.
My Blog:Through My Eyes
Here's the answer to your question. I (as did H) have taken distance from my Christian background as I don't perceive life and the Universe to be the way Christians insist it is. So, quite simply, I will not be baptizing my (someday) children nor would I raise them in hypocrisy. I wouldn't be pressured into making my own decisions, let alone the ones that involve my children. The journey to this conclusion started with the works of philosopher and Eastern religions authority, Alan Watts. There isn't another enlightened individual I would recommend more than him. If you're interested, there are countless books of his to pick from as well as a free podcast of his talks available online.
This is a conversation to have with your husband.
If neither of you are compelled to raise your child in a religious home, having a religious ceremony so your hypothetical child can wear a dress is disingenuous.
Perhaps a "welcome baby" event makes more sense.
This. Don't let anyone talk you into adding religion to your life just because you have kids, or are trying to make your families happy. It's very, very possible--even easy--for secular parents to raise, healthy, happy children. And personally, I think it's more important for parents to be honest with their kids about what they themselves do or don't believe, rather than to force the kids to go through religious ceremonies that don't have real meaning for them. Sure, if you feel drawn to explore a certain faith, go for it--but don't force it out of some obligation.
For whatever it's worth, DH and I don't believe in any gods, and we've always been pretty open about our feelings to our families. Now that our first child is actually here, no one has tried to pressure us, or make us feel bad about not baptizing. If both you and DH really don't believe, consider making it known now. That way, by the time your first baby is born, no one will be shocked that you aren't having a baptism.
Where does it end, though? You're focused on the baptism, but what about going to church on a regular basis, or at Easter, or at Christmas, or.... what other expectations are his (and your) family going to have?
If doing JUST the baptism will "shut them up", so to speak, I might think "well, maybe just do it" (even though I do find it hypocritical myself).
But it won't be JUST that. There will always be something that your fmailies "expect" of you. When do you and your DH stand up and say "that isn't the right choice for our family"? Or how long do you pretend that you feel something you don't?
You need to look at the bigger picture of what you all belive, what you're families believe, and what it is/ how far you're willing to do/go to meet their expectations.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I actually agree with this, so I want to clarify my earlier advice. I only think you should find a church to do a blessing/naming ceremony/etc if it is something that actually has meaning for you. I would never, ever baptize my child in a faith in which I did not believe. My earlier suggestion was based on the (perhaps incorrect) assumption that there might be some sort of faith community that you do identify with or would like to draw from. Thankfully, you and your H have plenty of time to talk this out and discuss what your options are and what is important to each of you.
Thanks all.
This is definitely a conversation that isn't over for us. I kind of like the UU idea. I definitely want our hypothetical future children to have the option of believing, and plan to expose them to a variety of options when they are old enough to understand them. I just don't want them to feel like they have to believe something because it's expected of them.
We will probably continue to do church on Christmas with the families b/c it is important to them, and I want to respect their beliefs, especially when we are visiting them for the holidays.
But I don't see us becoming regular parishioners for their sake, and I don't see them accepting a naming ceremony or alternate. So it's going to have to be a baptism or nothing.
My parents were strongly against organized religion. My father was Episcopalian and my mother is Jewish. They did not have me or my brother baptized for very similar reasons to what you listed. It has not been an issue.
I kind of like the idea of the UU church, in that now when people ask me what religion I am, I don't even know how to answer them. It isn't a big deal, it's just that my answer is longer than expected.
ECB has a good point. In a way, if it's meaningful to your in-laws, I could see doing it just to make them happy. What is the harm? but I would want to be careful with that. Would they then start pushing you on attending church more often? This is important stuff and I think it's good you and your H are trying to figure this out now.
Don't do anything just because "your families expect it". I promise you that it's a precedent you don't want to set.
Exactly this. Also, a parents' duty in Baptizing their child doesn't end at the ceremony - it is a life long commitment of the parents to grow the child in the Christian faith. Parents are asked a set of questions about their own beliefs about God and the Devil - so if you answer them in teh affimrative, but don't believe this, then you are LYING in church, to yourselves, to your family, to your child and to God. So, why do a ceremony if you aren't going to instruct this child in this set of beliefs? Doing so to appease parents is just silly and it is somewhat rude to "take advantage" of a church and a faith just to check off a box.
If you learn more about a serious Christain faith and decide to pursue it meaningfully for yourselves, then by all means, get your child baptized. But, if not, baptism isn't the way to go. It is a serious commitment. And, those believers who follow it consider it a SACRED sacrament. It isn't meant to be taken lightly to appease a family or to make someone feel good.
I'm new to the Nest, but I'm in love with it already. This is the same issue/convo DH and I are having about future babies. I was raised Christian and he Catholic. Similar, but not to the point where it doesn't matter to me. Our solution was this: since DH is a non practicing (or confirmed for that matter) Catholic, if I want our chldren exposed to any faith it will be my choice to take them and as they get older their choice to continue or not. His family members are "holiday Catholics" (his term), but I know baptism will be something that they'd like for our children. I believe his family will respect our wishes in regards to not baptizing our children. I believe the choice to committ to a faith is a decision best made as an adult and I don't want to force that committment on my children.
If you feel that baptism would be hypocritical, then don't do it and so what if your family is mad. The beauty of having your own children is YOU get to decide what is best for them. You and your DH will be the parents and at the end of the day, that is all that matters.
I am a practicing Catholic and attend our local church reguarly. Always have and have lots of religious folks in the family. Also had family who left the church, had bad experiences, good experiences, came back, did missions, did nothing, rejoined. It's complicated. And its all good.
I don't think its at all hypocritical to baptize a child even though you aren't devout. You're allowed to have doubts, we all do. You are allowed to want baptism for your child, even if its only for the resons you've given. "Desire" is enough, even if it doesn't come with the whole big package. Personally, as a person who enjoys mass and faith, I HATE when zealots hyjack my religion and make demands on who is "religious enough" to be part of the church.
As for where - find one. It might be an opportunity to search and see where you would be a good fit. That's one of the nice things about big transitions like parenthood, you explore new things, like faith and religion. Find a new fit. If that doesn't interest you, then pick a church of a family member, like the one who just got baptized. Its not unusual or uncommon to start there and see your options. You said the ILs are mostly holiday attenders, so there doesn't seem like a big conflict for the church administration to include you. Ask at your mom's church.
Don't do it simply becuase it's "expected" becuase that does feel hollow. But do do it because its a family tradition, steeped in good things that would connect your child (and you) to something positive and bigger than yourselves. And don't let other people tell you it's not a "good enough" reason - because it's YOUR reason, and for G*od that's alwasy good enough. (Or if there is no diety, then there is no one to offend at all, and its all just sprinkled water and dresses - win win.)