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What's your opinion?
I haven't really talked about it on here, but those that are on thebump ttgp board have probably seen what's going on.
DH had an SA, which didn't come back so good. He has low motility (4%, they want to see at least 50%) and low morphology. She ordered a second test which he has this weekend, but also already referred him to a urologist, which is the first weekend in January.
After researching on google (which I have a love/hate relationship with) that 4% number is really low. Like, people with 20% are told to just go straight to IVF. (Again, that's just what I'm finding on google, I have no idea what is going to happen to us..)
Originally when we were first ttc we talked about what we would do if it didn't happen naturally. DH said he wouldn't want to do IVF, because it was too much science involved. He's for adoption though.
Well, now that we 'may' be facing that decision we had another talk about it last night. He said he still isn't sure how he feels about it. For one, the cost, which ranges from $10-15,000. Two, live birth success rate is 42%, so it may not happen the first time. But, he's willing to try it once to see what happens.
So I was doing some more research today. (And I shouldn't have been surprised by this...) But the Catholic Church is very against IVF. We are both Catholic, well - we haven't been to church in a while though. The pope said (earlier this year) that "Artificial methods of getting pregnant were arrogance, insisting that sex between a husband and wife was the only acceptable way of conceiving."
Also:
Matrimony was the "only place worthy of the call to existence of a new human being", he told scientists and fertility experts. "The human and Christian dignity of procreation, in fact, doesn't consist in a "product", but in its link to the conjugal act, an expression of the love of the spouses of their union, not only biological but also spiritual," he said.
As I was reading these different articles, I was getting upset. So, I was curious, how do you guys feel about IVF &/or what the Catholic Church's stance is?
TTC since March 2012
BFP 3/14/13!!!
U/S 4/15: Identical twins!
Lost my angel boys at 10.5 weeks
My Chart***My TTC blog
Re: What's your opinion?
Without getting into a huge debate, I think the catholic church's view is ignorant. They have no respect for science and to completely deny it is absurd. To claim that no one is worthy of personhood unless made between a married couple is hateful and also laughable considering their stance on abortion. I was raised catholic, btw.
IVF is a wonderful option. BIL and SIL had success on their first go with it, she still has eggs frozen though. They conceived naturally the second time around.
Ditto everything Zero said. I was raised Catholic, but have sorta fallen away over the last few years. I do biomedical research for a living, and I think that they just aren't keeping up with human progress for some things and it really irks me sometimes. IVF is expensive, but if you guys are willing to give it a go, I think it's a great option.
TTC since March 2012
BFP 3/14/13!!!
U/S 4/15: Identical twins!
Lost my angel boys at 10.5 weeks
My Chart***My TTC blog
I was raised Catholic as well, with 2 priests in my family and I have strayed (didn't get married in the church and don't go to church) I just find it interesting that IVF is not ok but adoption would be. I think if you are doing IVF out of love for each other so you can pass your beliefs (which I'm making the assumption would be Catholic) on to your child then it should be ok with the church. I guess I just don't understand why the church has this view about IVF.
If your DH is on board to at least try IVF once, why not look into what the actual cost is going to be so that you can then determine if that is something you can afford and want to do or if it would be better for you to look at adoption.
I also think it is absurd. IVF is a choice of love as well. It's none of their business how anyone conceives.
It is expensive but so well worth it. A friend of mine had her first child via IVF. I almost want to say her second was conceived naturally, but I'm not 100% sure. There is no denying that their IVF was the definition of love.
I'm not Catholic so the Church's view isn't really an issue for me. The bigger issue for me is cost but it's completely up to you if it's worth it or not. If DH and I reach that point, I haven't decided if I'm entirely comfortable spending that much money for IVF. I'm also not sure if I'm willing to let go of actually going through a pregnancy as opposed to adoption. There are several women on the 3T and IF boards over on the bump who are Catholic and have made the decision to go forward with IVF anyway. I think IVF is a perfectly legitimate route to go, regardless of what the pope says.
I agree with everyone. IVF doesn't mean the child isn't made from love. Not much more I could add. Both IVF and adoption are big decisions. Take your time in deciding what the best aproach would be. I'm sorry your having TTTC. My prayers are with you. Personally I may have a little bit of guilt for having an IVF baby but it doesn't matter in the end. Any baby is a child of God no matter how they come about.
I'm Jewish, so the stance of the Catholic Church doesn't affect me personally, but (not to start a debate - especially because I have no idea what the "Jewish" stance is on this) I think it's silly to tell a loving, married couple that they cannot use science to help them have a baby. It's not like you're building a robot child!
I have friends and family members who have used IVF. For one of my friends, it was her body that was keeping them from getting pregnant the natural way. Their insurance covered one round, so she and her husband agreed to try it once and see what happened (without taking on the huge cost of it all). Her husband was ok with that but had said he didn't want to adopt if it didn't work. Thankfully for them, it worked and they have an adorable 11 month old.
DH and I haven't really talked about the "what ifs". Maybe I'll talk to him about it this weekend. We are thinking of starting TTC later this month. I know he's open to adoption (as am I) but I would love a baby or two of my own, no matter what methods it ends up happening with.
1) His second SA might show improvement. Don't get yourself too worried yet.
2) I am not Catholic, so I can't comment directly on what I would do in this situation. But just out of curiosity, were you on birth control prior to TTC? Did you have sex before you were married? (I think you can probably see where I am going with this...)
TTC #1 since 1/12
BFP 12/13/12 * EDD 08/24/2013 * MMC CONFIRMED 1/23/13
TTGP Blog - A Good Read!
TTC since March 2012
BFP 3/14/13!!!
U/S 4/15: Identical twins!
Lost my angel boys at 10.5 weeks
My Chart***My TTC blog
TTC since June 2012
The question is, what is more important to you? Would you rather have a baby through IVF that might not be able to be baptized in a Catholic church (if that ends up being your only option to conceive a child of your own)? Or would you rather not have a baby for fear of that baby not being baptized in a Catholic church?
That being said, my guess is that there if there are some priests who refuse to marry you but some will, the same would be said for baptizing IVF babies.
On a side note, other denominations will baptize IVF babies without hesitation. I am Episcopalian, which is probably just about the closest theologically to Catholicism, and there would be zero problem with a baptism of an IVF baby in my church. (Did you know, the only *basic* difference between those two religions is their stance on transubstantiation? Individual churches have differences, of course, but this is even true within Catholicism or any other religious group. But transubstantiation is the difference b/w Catholicism and the Episcopal Church at its most basic level.)
TTC #1 since 1/12
BFP 12/13/12 * EDD 08/24/2013 * MMC CONFIRMED 1/23/13
TTGP Blog - A Good Read!
TTC since March 2012
BFP 3/14/13!!!
U/S 4/15: Identical twins!
Lost my angel boys at 10.5 weeks
My Chart***My TTC blog
It's an oversimplification (on my part) to say that's the only difference. It's how the split between the Catholic church and the Anglican church (the roots of the Episcopal church) began. There have been some different ways that the churches have manifested themselves. But at a most basic level, this is the main difference.
The funny thing about your aunt and the germs/blood of Christ thing is the fact that blood carries germs too. I'm sure there are debates about what germs can be passed in blood once it is airborne, but still... my argumentative self would point that out, lol.
TTC #1 since 1/12
BFP 12/13/12 * EDD 08/24/2013 * MMC CONFIRMED 1/23/13
TTGP Blog - A Good Read!
I honestly did not know, and did not occurred to me, that an IVF Child could not be baptized. That's sad. This is a huge desision even without the religion aspect. I'll pray that you're guided to the right decision.
For the not getting sick from receiving the blood of Christ is false. I guess you could argue the fact that it was a communal chalice that had the germs on it. Well I ended up getting mono.
I think you have to go with what you feel is right.
I was raised Catholic and remained on such a path until the wedding planning process. Since we lived together and had a son together, the church would marry us but we were held to certain stipulations. I suppose to each their own and they can do as they wish but they're just so stuck in the past that it annoys me to no end.
I didn't get married in the Catholic church and my son no longer goes to CCD classes. Occasionally we attend church because while I do not like THE Catholic church, I did still like the actual parish I go to and I do want my son to be exposed to religion in his life. We will so be searching out other religions though.
So anyway, I feel its up to you to decide what works best for you and what is most important. I think you can have a good relationship with God without the church telling you how to dictate your life.
I was raised Catholic, and DH and I ended up having DD before we were married. We were trying to prevent pregnancy when I got pregnant with her, so it isn't like we were just being careless. My Priest in the church that I had been going to since birth refused to let me baptize my daughter because of that. I tried to reason with the Priest stating that she didn't have anything to do with the fact that she was concieved before we were married, and that I didn't think it was fair of the church to punish her. He just stared at me like a fool. I advised him I could have had an abortion which is also against the church and then we would never be having this coverstation, but that I wanted to raise my daughter Catholic. He still refused. So needless to say she is now 3 and a half and she is still not baptized.
I have recently found a different parish that I have been attending more regularly, but I have really found that it just troubles me that I was treated that way in the religion that I have always been very faithful too.
In the end, what I'm getting at is that you have to do what is right for you. As PP stated would you rather have a child that is unbaptized or no child at all? I know I wouldn't trade baby bean for anything!