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Long: Physical Abuse
This is long and it is extremely sensitive, so if you haven't the time or energy to read and respond, then please refrain from commenting. I am looking for serious answers.
Fortunately, my life has not been faced with abuse of any sort. I realize that for many women, this is not the case. My extent of practical knowledge on what to do in abuse situations encompasses only what I've read in passing or seen on Lifetime movies. Very elementary. So I need some advice and I know that many posters here would have helpful responses.
Yesterday in my mom's group at church, a friend at my table, toward the end of the morning asked us to keep her and her four kids in prayer since she is facing some abuse issues with her husband. She prefaced these remarkss with something like, "I know there are a lot of opinions on this issue, but I'm just asking for prayer." She then proceeded to tell us that her husband hurt her badly enough that she had to go to the hospital and that law enforcement is now involved. She was very casual about it, nonchalant.
It almost seemed like she was only mentioning it to annoucne to us that life changes might be appraoching for her and to make us aware. There were no tears or worry.
When the meeting concluded, another mom and I spoke with her again. Apparently, she knows the stats about men not changing their behaviors even after anger management class (he has to go do this now). When she said, "I just want the kids to be safe." and I remarked, "And you too!" She looked at me funny, like it was an afterthought for her own safety. I also asked her if she had a safe place to go and she said, "yes." However, I am not sure if she would ever leave him, even temporarily.
I don't know her extremely well. My DH and I are new to this area, and I've only been in this mom's group since September. The times that this mom and I have seen one another, she has mentioned about having marital troubles but never any details or any information about abuse.
She said this recent time was the first time he was physically abusive.
I doubt her word on this. I know they have four kids and the eldest is probably 6 or 7 and they got pregnant with that child before marriage. Am I incorrect to assume that physical abuse doesn't lay dormant for years and years and then suddenly rear its ugly head one day?
I contacted the other mom who was there with me and I have not heard back from her yet. She is a thoughtful, caring, deep individual and I guess I just don't know what to do.
I will keep her and her kids in my prayers. But, beyond making sure she knows that she has help if she needs it, what is there to do? Am I correct in my assumptions that physical abuse has been going on for awhile? I don't know...we never see anything visually on her exposed flesh areas. Are some men smart enough even in their rage to hit in covered spots?
Apparently she told him that if he did it again, they would leave him.
I don't want to betray her trust since she opened up at our small group, but I feel like immediate safety is more important.
Any people here who can advise? Thanks.
Re: Long: Physical Abuse
You are right; she probably won't leave him. And no matter what you say, it will not work. She's got to want to leave because she and the kids are in danger.
I am guessing he hits her only where the marks won't show.
She needs to leave this guy and do it today -- take the kids and go, while he is at work -- and go and do not give any advance warning -- and when she goes, file for divorce. That's what she needs to do.
Horrible for her and the kids.:(
I agree. But what am I and this other mom who heard the details supposed to do?
It sounds like you have done all you can at this point unless she asks for more help. This may very well be the first time he has physically abused your friend though I highly doubt this is the first instance of abuse. Even if he has never hit her before, your friend has probably dealt with emotional and verbal abuse from her husband in the past. Did you friend say she was definitely staying with him? I am assuming so. The most you can do at this point is let her know you are there for her and praying for her and her children until you notice other signs of violence or she tells you there has been more violence. Or if you are so inclined, see if your church or community center has any domestic abuse support groups and encourage her to go to a meeting.
I have a very close friend that has dealt with all form of abusive from her SO for almost 10 years. She left him before and then went back. She left him again about 6 months ago and thankfully, she has stayed gone. I supported her and encouraged her to get away from him but until recently, my words feel on deaf ears. Even then it wasn't my words of support that encouraged her to leave, it was a rock bottom type situation that made her go. She even stayed with me when she initially left him. She struggled but moved in with her mother, found a new job and is getting back on her feet. I am very proud of her but it took a long time for her to find the strength to finally leave him. I pray that your friend does not take that long to find the strength.
I have a friend whose husband was battling some depression/mental issues for a few years. He was in therapy and trying to be pro-active about his situation because his family has a history of these sorts of problems. Obviously there was some discord between them because these types of situations are emotional to deal with, but nothing terrible and nothing even approaching abuse.
One day, he snapped. I really can't describe it as anything else. He was behaving a bit erratically that day, came home, they argued, and he hit her. She left immediately and divorced him saying that their trust was broken and she couldn't live someone, no matter how much she loved him, with the threat of physical violence always hanging over her.
So, can physical abuse come out of nowhere? Yes. And no. There were rumblings of trouble long before he hit her, but I don't think she or he ever assumed it would reach this point. I also can't say why it did - whether he stopped taking medications or had progressed beyond the help of his therapist, etc. Any number of reasons are possible.
Since you don't have all the facts, then I think the only thing you can do is be there for her. Be willing to answer her calls, tell her that you are always available to talk or be a safe haven for her children and her, if needed. Although, depending how out of control things could become, it might be best to have some shelter numbers on hand so you don't get dragged into an ugly scene. I don't think judgment will get you anywhere so just try to listen and point her to the right sorts of help.
Good luck.
We don't even know if the kids are being abused physically -- and I am sure they already know something is deadly amiss in that house, even if they are not around when all of this is going on.:(
THis may be a CPS issue. To me, they are in danger just by being in that house.
You're probably not going to like this, and you may not even agree with me, but I think you need to settle down and stop worrying / involving yourself so much in other people's issues. She didn't ask for your help and has only known you casually for about 3 or so months. Your overzealous neighbors mean well and your other neighbor that had a death in the family also has very little or nothing to do with you.
You seem very wrapped up and concerned with people around you but it may be best to just leave them alone unless they actually come out and ask you for help/guidance or advice.
What do you do about this one? The next time you see her just genuinely ask how she is doing and follow her lead. She wants to talk about it and involve you? Fine, get involved. She says something vague? Take the hint. Let her know that you are there for her if she wants to talk or wants some help, but otherwise leave it alone, like you should with everything else.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
Personally, I'd stay out of it. I know that sounds like a TERRIBLE idea, but if she's requested only prayer, doing more than that could betray her trust and alienate her. My suggestion is to continue to ask her, when you see her, how she is and be genuine about it. Continually saying things to let her know that you're there if she needs you can become overwhelming and unwanted after a short time. You don't want to make her feel like coming to you to vent/ask for help is creating a situation where you view her as a charity case or some fragile flower that is in need of pity.
That said, yes, her situation is terrible, sad, and I can totally understand why you would want to help. However, she's said she has a safe place to go, and that she's told him she will leave if it happens again. Beyond that, truly, there is nothing you can do or say about the situation that will convince her to leave him, change her mind about how she's handled it, or anything else. Also, I would refrain from contacting others to discuss this woman's problems. That could come across as dishonest or gossipy.
Long story short, you did the right thing by making sure she was ok, being there for her to talk to, and making sure she was safe. Continue to be available for her without "laying it on too thick" and I'm sure if/when she needs something she will reach out to you. Prayers!
Oh. OOOOOH. I didn't put the screen names together. I completely agree with the bolded paragraph.
I completely agree with this. OP - I know you have good intentions, but this woman hasn't asked for your help, other than for prayers. Not to mention, it's not like she's your family or close friend. I would stay out of it until she brings it up.
Thanks for the advice. I was able to chat with the other mom today on the phone who was present when we were told about the abuse issues.
We have determined that keeping the kids and the mom in prayer is best and I am emailing her to provide a link to a free, confidential ministry our church offers the community to help out with a variety of life issues, including abuse.
The mom with me at the table is actually not only a member of our church, but a paid part-time staff person, so she had to contact someone else in the church to document that this was taking place. Also, the abused mom's (she isn't actually a member of our congregation, but of another one) kids come to our church during the mom's group meetings and enjoy free activities with other kids, so it would be good to have others keeping their eye on these children to note any changes in behavior or other problems. I do know that they saw this last episode of abuse.
I know that I can't really do much beyond prayer, open door communication and checking in with her to see how things are going. But since I've never faced this before, I just wondered if there were other or better steps. Trying to gather information to store away for the future, if needed.
Eye rolls to PPs who think I'm out of line, overreacting, or pressing into this issue too far. I cannot go jumping in to save the day here, but I'm not going to be just a bystander either. You'd feel differently if you were in my shoes with my boots on the ground.
This abuse, my neighbors' daugher's suicide (as the PP mentioned) are not my business, but what IS my business is being a caring, involved person, who steps out beyond the typical norm and lends a hand. People are fragile and we all need tender care and attention.
I don't think that she wants or needs you to do anything besides pray for her. She told you the police are already involved and she has a safe place to go if she needs it. I think your impression is probably right in that she was only mentioning it to announce to the group that life changes might be approaching.
I think the most key information that you have to work with is this: you don't know her well. That means it's not appropriate for you to make assumptions about whether she really will or won't leave him or about whether she's lying that this was the first time he physically abused her.
Which I hesitated about typing that way, because I believe you care and just want to help, but: I've been someone who had a problem (medical issues, now past) that was immediately obvious to others, and so while I opened up to the family and friends closest to me, I gave a simple, unemotional explanation to the people I knew but didn't know well- coworkers, neighbors, etc. It was actually really, really hard on me when the people I wasn't close to wouldn't take my simple explanation and insisted on offering help I didn't need or pressed me to talk to them so they knew that I knew that they were always there. I fully understand that they wanted to help, but I also felt that they didn't respect me enough to believe that I had closer friends than they to talk to, or that I really didn't need their help. And, in their rush to "be helpful", some people actually did a lot of damage by talking about me and sharing suspicions about what might be really going on or how it must be worse than I said since I wasn't giving detailed answers to all their questions. Those became rumors that I then had to deal with on top of my actual problem- and honestly, I'm still dealing with those rumors even though my actual medical problem is gone.
Which is the very long-winded reasoning behind my answer: Pray as she asked you to, be willing to listen and support her if she asks in the future, but also understand if she doesn't share more details or ask for more support from you/ the women's group- she may just feel more comfortable talking to/ asking others, and that's okay.
Edit: sorry, took me so long for the post to go through I actually didn't see your update. I still offer my advice though, only on the grounds that while, again, I believe you're a caring and concerned person, I've been in a situation where concern-that-went-too-far actually caused problems, so I wanted to offer that perspective.
So next time maybe make it clear that you're only looking for advice or input from those that agree with you and that you are not looking for other opinions or views. Good to know for next time, cheers.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk