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Fighting *Long*
So my H and I don't really argue that much but I've noticed the only time we argue is when we are arguing about other people. I guess because we don't argue about much this isn't too bad right?
Ex 1: There was some family drama with his brother and his brother's wife that started from the time my H and I got engaged at the end of 2011. So much drama to the point that the my BIL was kicked out of the bridal party, and H side of the family was not invited to BIL's wedding or birth of his daughter. FF to now, I have come a long way to try and get over my anger and hurt feelings toward BIL and SIL, and I feel like things are starting to get better. No we are not BFFs and don't really hang out but I'm starting to want to be more involved in their lives even if they annoy me, but hey you can't like everyone and family is family and they are trying too....sort of.
Ex 2: Close friend of ours who ended up being the best man at our wedding recently broke up with his gf whom we all thought he was going to marry they had been together for at least six years I think? Anyways he pretty much broke up with her a month after our wedding she was heart broken and pissed off so it's been kind of a messy break up. I am closer to the BM than the gf but I feel for the gf because I can only imagine how hard it is to be in her shoes. Then the BM proceeds to get a gf maybe a week after his break up, yes he may have been emotionally out of his previous relationship for sometime, but I feel like him moving on so fast just made it seem that his previous relationship didn't mean anything to him. The only reason why I care is because how he is acting post relationship he went on Facebook and updated his status to show he was in a new relationship and has basically begged me to meet the new gf so I can give my approval?! He NEVER uses FB, and I have no idea why he needs my approval for the new gf. I just felt like he was trying to rub it in his exs face that he moved on and did it in a very immature way. Now the ex gf is moving out of town to kind of deal with it all. We live in a very small place everyone knows everyones business.
So going back to my original question/comment, H seems to get really upset with me that I care about these situations and that I haven't moved on as quickly as he has. I am trying I would rather not have any bad blood between family and I would like to get to know this new girl since my friend is dating her, but he lately has annoyed me with his behavior. H thinks I come off as rude/cold when I don't gab away with his brother and SIL and when I don't make much of an effort to meet the new girl (mind you that H hardly talks/sees them himself). H also dislikes it that I gossip, and I will admit it I do gossip, everyone gossips the H gossips, I don't do it for malicious or bad intent I just am a horrible liar and unless someone tells me it's a secret I don't mind sharing information. Another personal goal for me to achieve is to tone down my gossiping/talking and one way I am learning to do this is by not being nosy or inquisitive to people that others ask me about or that I may talk about, IE: BIL/SIL BM/new GF. So is wrong that I"m not going out of my way to chat them up and learn info about them because I"m trying to teach myself to be more tight lipped? H thinks I need to "get over it" which I understand but I'm a grudge holder I will admit so it takes time for me and I'm doing the best I can.
Sorry for the long post/rambling. Just kind of needed to get that out there!
Re: Fighting *Long*
Does he object when you "gossip" about people besides his friends/family? Does he mind when you talk about coworkers? your girlfriends? Could he just be sensitive because he feels like you're attacking his people?
Could BM and new girlfriend situation be more innocent than you're reading into it? Maybe Facebook is important to the new gf. Maybe it's at HER insistence that he update his relationship status. Why is the ex still Facebook friends with him anyway? Sounds like she's asking for drama. She really has to move to a different town because her ex has a new gf? Is she 12 and this was her first boyfriend or something? Somebody get that girl a tiara!
With your H's brother - it's HIS brother. Seems like H kinda gets to be in charge of the relationship he has with brother and SIL. Unless the mysterious "family drama" you speak of was because of you or involved malicious actions toward you personally, I don't think it should matter to you.
Please elaborate on the family drama.
Also, your H needs to respect that you are your own person with your own opinions and ways of dealing with people. My guess is that you're not acting much differently around BM or the brother than you would act around anybody else. I'd guess it just bugs your H 'cus he wants you to be as excited about brother and BM as he is. Your H needs to realize that you form relationships at your own pace and with your own level of enthusiasm.
On issue 1 - your DH wants you to be nicer/ friendlier? Well, on that note, HE needs to understand that he can't force you to be buddies w/ his brother and SIL if it's simply not there. Maybe you should try to check your attitude if you are actually being RUDE. But you don't have to be chatty cathy/ best buds w/ them either. Try to find a middle ground.
But I also question what exactly the "family" drama was that is leading YOU to be hurt while your DH seems ot have moved on.
On issue 2 - his best friend has a new GF. This has nothing to do w/ his ex gf. So.... seperate the two. Who cares what his intentions are w/ FB. The simple fact is that he wants you to meet the new GF. So meet her and make an effort to get to know her. It's really not that hard.
And issue 3- gossiping. So, in order to not gossip, you're now not going to talk to people or ask them about themselves so that you don't know anything that would lead you to gossip? Really? The two are unrelated. And I'd love to know some examples of what you feel is gossip/ what your DH feels is gossip, and how "Mary" asking you about "Jane" means you'd have to lie (????) so in turn, you'd rather not know anything about Jane.
Honestly- this whole aspect is really baffling to me.
Here's a "tale", so to speak. I know a couple who is having marriage problems. And I know that one of their issues has to do w/ fertility and trying to have a child. On NYE, at their house, they didn't interact w/ each other, kiss one another at midnight, etc. They were both very friendly and having a great time w their guests, but if you paid any attention to them - youd' have seen there was something going on.
If someone were to ask 1- how was NYE at their house, I would simply say "we had a great time!" and perhaps mention who else was there, what games we played, etc. or if they more specifically said 2- "how was Susie? She's seemed down lately." , all I would say is "she seemed to be having a good time that night. I didn't really pay close attention." and maybe, MAYBE add that after midnight, I saw her on her phone and she seemed upset, but her closest friend moved across the country, so I think she was sad/missing her friend (which is very much the truth).
I know A LOT about this couple, but coming from some very simple questions, I don't need to 1- lie, or 2- tell them the entire truth. There is a TON of middle ground between "being honest" and having a natural conversation w/ someone and then "gossiping". I know they are having marriage problems but it's not my place to share that information. Perhaps that's what you need to start asking yourself. "Is this my place to share?".
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
@BeckyOff--
I think it bothers him more if I am talking about family/friends, but overall I don't think he likes it.
I could totally be more innocent, I am however not the only one who noticed his behavior a couple other close friends have commented on it and how they also thought he was being rude. She is not friends with him on FB but we all have mutual friends so word gets around. They've been together since she was probably 16 so I understand her want to move and start fresh. I think it will be good for her.
The drama with H's brother and SIL was due to the fact that they were very disrespectful to his family especially his mother who has never done anything to them. H and brother also got into a fight over this previously when it was at an all time high and BIL told H that he didn't care about any of us (H's side of the family) that we didn't mean as much to him as his new family/wife's family and that we basically weren't good enough to be apart of his "perfect" life. It was not directed totally at me yes, which is probably why H isn't as upset anymore. I'm moving on but it still kind of stings especially when they hurt my MIL.
True, I'm not acting particulary heinous towards either BM or BIL but I do act different and H can tell. I guess he feels like I harbor lots of ill will towards them all and he doesn't understand how I just can't let it go. I agree I am not 100% over it but I'm really trying. Regarding the BM I am just so caught off guard with this whole new person I don't even know where to begin.
@EastCoastBride
I am learning to be more comfortable around them, shoot this year I bought their birthday gifts and the SIL's Christmas gifts without H's opinion or anything. If I truly hated them I would have given them nothing! But yes I guess I can try and change my attitude more? I would just rather not be fake because that is exactly what they do and it annoys me to death.
*Regarding family drama please refer to other comment.* H says he doesn't care, which I guess is his way of moving on? H and BIL still but heads and H still gets annoyed by things BIL and SIL do. Plus they are definetly not buddy buddy, he hardly talks to them and they hardly talk to him. We only see each other at family functions. So I don't get why he thinks I need to be BFFS with them when he doesn't even talk to them! (I made this point to him)
The new GF issue you are right there is no connection with the ex gf I just felt really bad for her, and as I have said in the previous comment I'm just kind of shocked and don't know what to do. We've been around them a few times and I don't feel like I am rude but I guess I am quiet so that is why my H thinks I am being rude/cold. I feel though that if she wants to get to know me then she can make the effort, the few times we have talked I've been polite but I don't act like I want to be her best friend. I don't even know her yet.
Concerning the gossiping, I honestly never have had anyone tell me that they are upset/mad/not my friend because I like to talk. Everyone I know comes to me with info and to get info, I just do a better job at keeping up with what people are doing/where they are/etc. Like I said it is never malicious or cruel when I talk about people, if they are doing things that make them look bad then that is on them I feel like, not me. My H doesn't want me to talk about people if it's something that they wouldn't share themselves to another person, I get that but if they are telling me then why wouldn't they tell someone else unless they said DONT TELL. I guess what my strategy is if the people don't volunteer up the information voluntarily I'd rather not pry. Like my BIL recently got a new job, he didn't tell any of us but it was on FB and I don't have them on my feed (they are really annoying posters) so we found out through other mutual friends. I had recently saw BIL and SIL they didn't mention one word about it, it's not even something that is "gossip" so even though I knew because someone else informed me I didn't ask about it because they didn't mention it.
Some of what you're writing - I'm wondering how much of ths is about DH trying to change you, who you are. To a degree, he sounds way too involved in telling you how to act towards people.
BUT at the same time - you describe yourself as someone who talks to people, is inquisitive, etc, but then you dont' talk to the new GF and you expect her to try and talk to you instead.
On one hand, you describe yourself as warm and friendly, then you give us a couple clear examples of where you're cold and standoffish. I could see how your DH might be frustrated by this. There seems to be two extremes.
To this: if they are telling me then why wouldn't they tell someone else unless they said DONT TELL
It depends on what they are telling you. Give us some examples of what your DH is annoyed about.
But in general, they shouldn't have to say "don't tell" in order to expect that you'll respect their privacy/ right to tell. If you want to be someone that people are comfortable talking to, they will want to feel that they can TRUST you too.
If someone tells me they got a new puppy, I don't really see that as "private" and it wouldn't stop me from mentioning it to someone else. But pregnancy announcements - this isn't a privacy thing, but a "right to tell" thing - people like to announce it themselves that they are PG.
If Sally tells you she's PG - if you run into someone who wouldn't necessarily know otherwise (perhaps a friend of yours who only knows Sally through you), sure, tell them. But if Sally tells you on Friday and Saturday you run into a mutual friend of Sally that you aren't sure if Sally has had a chance to tell her or not - then maybe exercise some caution and don't say anything yet. Give Sally a chance to tell. Now, if it's a month later - I'd say it's reasonable to expect that Sally has told "everyone" and I would mention it.
It's not about "not telling, ever". It's about exercising caution and thinking "what do I think they would want". And if someone tells you something that your'e really not sure about - ASK them. "Do you want this kept quiet?". Or in the case of pregnancy annoucements, "is this public knowledge or should I keep silent about it?".
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
True I totally act different but it's because now I'm worried that 1) I'm going to learn about something and then I'm going to blab it not realizing that I'm blabbing, such as with the new GF, I get to know her and then other people start asking me stuff about her, do I just stay silent and let them form their own opinion or do I tell them. What happens if I don't like her then H will be mad because I'm telling people I don't like her but that's my opinion! I understand that is an extreme but it's a possibility, and why do I have to do 100% of the work to get to know this girl, why can't she do 90 I do 10, usually if you like your SO you try to get to know their friends/family. I probably could be warmer but she didn't talk to me, H says she talks a lot but I have yet to see this?
2) I'm still getting comfortable with BIL and SIL after all the drama and/or I'm getting comfortable with the new GF. I'm very chatty and social with people I know well, when it comes to new people or people that I've had drama with I am more guarded and quiet. H hasn't seen me like this in a while which is maybe why he's annoyed.
An example of when H has been annoyed. Besides the family drama, BIL and SIL are the type of people who like to "keep up with the Joneses" they are always portraying themselves as perfect/happy/etc, however in the real world they are stuck up and actually really broke yet they brag and post about all their possesions/trips/etc BIL is in massive debt and SIL got knocked up before marriage which is funny because she was one of those girls that preached abstinence and then ended up getting married out of town in secret because they were embarrassed. I have called these things out and other people have called them out and this is when H thinks I'm gossiping. This was more so last year when the drama was bad and I was really pissed at them. It is very irratating because a lot of people in my town think they are gods gift to the earth when really they are just normal people and I wish they wouldn't act so fake.
O.k..... (please understand I'm trying to help you).
On what you wrote about SIL/BIL- that is ABSOLUTELY "gossip". Every little bit that you just wrote - it's petty gossip where you're judgeing her and making fun of her. yes, I can see why your DH is pissed.
As for the GF... why do you have to keep tally of who is doing how much "work"? Just go up to her and say "Hey- how are you doing? I haven't seen you in awhile. What have you been up to?" - or what have you. Stop this petty 'who is making the most effort' thing. SHE'S the new girl. Give her a break - make an effort to welcome her.
And let's say you find out what she does for a living, what hobbies she's into, and what kind of books she likes - if people say "So, you got to know Bertha - what's she like?", and you can say "OH, well, she works at __ and she said she really likes to ___". None of that is gossip. You're just relaying facts that she told you.
Really- what you said is kind of it. Gossip is a lot about opinion vs fact (not all the time - but it is a component). Once you start to get into that arena, you're talking about your percpetions, not FACT. Saying "She works at Target" is a fact. Saying "she works at Target ** eye roll ** - but she seems unfriendly so I'm not really sure how she's good at it" is gossip.
You don't even know the girl and you're talking about "what if I don't like her?"!!!!! And what if you don't? You don't need to make a point to go tell people that!
That's the other aspect to gossip. What is your purpose/intention of passing on information? If someone tells you "DH and I are fighting and we're talking about getting a divorce" - if you then happen to talk to another friend and out of concern say "did you hear that __ and __ might get divorced? What do you think? I'm so surprised and sad for them. I don't know what to do." - that's just being human and caring. But if you run to the phone first chance you get to call someone and say "OMG!!!! Did you hear that __ and __ might be getting divorced ** snicker snicker ** I'm not surprised! I always thought he was a jerk.". THAT is gossip.
It's about intent and fact, and it's also about respect. Someone tells you news like that - you actually should err on the side of caution and NOT tell anyone!!!
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
It has to be exhausting both caring this much about what other people are doing and keeping track of it. Gossiping and judging is generally not a good quality; it sounds like it bothers your H because it makes you appear petty and immature. If he thought you were that type of person he probably wouldn't have married you. To me, it sounds like he is annoyed that you are defending and continuing a bad habit rather than trying to be more respectful of other people.
You spend a lot of time in this post defending your behavior. It isn't malicious or cruel, you figure if they don't say not to tell it's ok to share, everyone comes to you for info. None of that makes gossiping an attractive quality. It sounds like you have earned a reputation, your H is aware of it, and he wants you to stop engaging in immature and gross behavior. No matter how you try to spin it, its petty and stupid. Eleanor Roosevelt famously said, "Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people."
DH and I do discuss events that occur between friends and family, but in a broader sense than "Can you believe so and so did that?" It is also important to both of us to know that we can discuss situations without the other person blabbing all over. I shouldn't have to tell my husband not to repeat something; I should be able to trust his judgment as an adult. We've had friends divorce, cheat, have babies, get fired, etc. in the last year and while we discuss it was "what do you think of this situation?" "what would you do" "how would you feel" "how do you think we could make them feel better" we also try hard not to judge. Unless you have been in someone else's shoes it is impossible to know exactly what is going on or what the person is thinking or feeling. Presuming to know and passing judgment is not only hurtful, its a huge waste of time.
This statement alone is so petty, ugly, unnecessary and none of your business. It is not your job to pass judgment on people. It would annoy me to no end if my husband talked about people, much less people I care about, with so much disdain. You need to start realizing that statements like this reflect more on you and say more about you than the people you are discussing.
Thank you all for your feedback, I do understand that I shouldn't be gossiping and that my H doesn't like it, so that is why I'm trying to fix this bad habit of mine. I've even gone to my friends and said I shouldn't be gossiping H doesn't like it will you help me by not engaging in it with me and not asking me to gossip. They are trying and I am trying.
I feel like I am progressing a lot with BIL and SIL, I just in fact invited the whole family over to our house for dinner next week. H side of the family has yet to be invited over to their house and they pretty much don't involve us in their lives, so that is part of the reason why we are not all 100% because they don't allow us to be apart of their lives. This really hurts my MIL since they also have a child. This also literally started only since they got married a year ago, before BIL was selfish and now he's just gotten worse but that I've come to understand that is just how he's going to be. I guess I expect more from SIL because she portrays herself as a different person, but I can't tell if it's her or him being the reason they act like they do. I ask my H on how he got over it all, and he said he doesn't care about any of it, and the way he acts is he doesn't really interact with them much, yes in person but outside of that nothing. We usually are updated about their lives through other people.
I'm kind of confused because when I care, I guess I care too much about none of my business, but I'd rather care and feel like a family with them then act like they are distant relatives. I grew up in a family where we knew everything about each other there was no secrets and everyone talked about everyone to everyone. His family has only been closer within the last few years, so it doesn't bother them to not know about what is going on in each others lives.
As for the new gf I know I need to give her a chance I guess I am just still in shock about it all and also the fact that I and other friends tried reaching out to BM after the break up and he blew us off because he was secretly seeing this girl. I feel like if you have to hide a relationship then it's not a good relationship or wont be a good one. So in a way I'm kind of punishing him by not interacting with her but I know it's not her fault so I'm going to try much harder to be a good friend.
Every time you post it becomes clearer and clearer that you don't care. You don't care that you are judging people you don't really know, in situations you don't really know about. You just care about being able to tell people (Internet or real life) what these people are doing wrong or why they deserve judgment. It's about being better than other people; it's about not caring how hurtful your behavior is.
It's not your place to label BIL selfish, to say SIL should know better, to punish your friend for breaking up with his girlfriend. People are not perfect, when you really care about someone you accept that they will make mistakes and forgive those mistakes. Every time you post it contains more nasty, petty comments and efforts to minimize how hurtful your behavior is.
I also question how close a relationship you can have with people of you require them to meet your standards and if they know you're more than likely sharing their personal business and trashing them behind their backs. This isn't up to your friends not asking for gossip, you need to make an effort to be more understanding and less judgmental of people in your life.
The more you write, the more I understand why perhaps HIS family doesn't want to tell YOU everything. Because you don't seem to realize there is a difference between "talking about your lives" and "gossiping". NOR do you realize that every person and every family is different. you don't respect these differences- you only see them as more fodder for gossip. "Oh- they don't share everything the way MY family does - something must be wrong with them".
In your eyes, being close means gossiping about each other. Where as to most people, being close means sharing in each others lives but also respecting one another and not talking bad about one another.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I don't have a bad relationship with anyone else in my Hs family. His mom calls and talks to me all the time, his sister calls and talks all the time and half of the time they are both complaining and talking about BIL and SIL about how they are and how they are mad with them. Extended family I'm the only one and H that has met every single aunt, uncle, cousin, etc and they all really like me and I'm the only one who keeps in touch with them to make sure they know how we are and ask how they are. So I don't agree that you feel like Hs won't talk to me, it's only BIL and SIL who don't talk to ANYONE in H's family.
I do understand that each family is different but H has many of times told me how he wishes his family had been closer growing up and for the most part of our relationship we have been more interactive with my side of the family and they love him and he loves them. I coordinate family dinners, instigate phone calls, texting etc with his family to cultivate the togetherness that I've always had in my own family so H and his family can become closer. H's sister and mom always comment on how they are so happy about everyone being able to be together more and they like how I've helped that. So I do disagree with that perception that you took from my posts.
Like I said I am not the only one who gossips, H has admitted that he does it, I'm pretty sure when SIL and MIL call to complain they are doing it, BM calls himself the KING of gossip and my own family gossips. I guess I've been surronded by it all my life and this is why it has never bothered me or made me feel bad. Only recently has it really made any negative impact, I'm guessing because people are embarrassed by their actions. However, I do understand it is not my place to judge, share, or pry into their business which is why I am trying to change my behaviors and attitude.
@EastCoastBride thanks for your continuing responses you seem to convey the most sensible and non-judmental feedback. I don't feel the negative or talking down vibes from you that come off many other posts.
What you're missing is that by excusing or justifying the gossiping you're missing out in a chance to develop stronger/deeper relationships with people, to be a supportive friend and to be really involved in their lives. Until you get passed the urge to judge and compare you're not being a truly good friend and it would be impossible for people to fully trust you. Nothing you say here to explain away that fact will change the reality.
I used to be more prone to gossiping. A lot of it came from a feeling of insecurity or wanting to be better than people. It made me feel uneasy about myself and it made me less of a friend. Since I stopped gossiping my friendships have improved drastically. When a friend caught her husband cheating and decided to stay with him, we talked through things. I tried to support her and I didn't blame. She's in a much better place now and I was actually able to help her. When another friend got pregnant I was one of the first people to find out because she knew I wouldn't tell. It feels good to be able to support friends without judgment or to celebrate good news trusted hit to blab it. All of this feels so much better than having to worry if I'm blabbing or if someone will find out I talked about them, etc.
Id suggest finding some good hobbies and focusing on ways to direct the conversation that are healthier/more productive. Start a book club, cooking club, whatever. Stop making excuses for the gossiping and actively take responsibility for changing it.
Thank you, I guess all I can say to your comment is thank you for sharing your own experience. I do participate in those types of activities with friends and I'm not going to lie part of those activities includes sharing info/gossip so do I just stop seeing those people so I am not hearing it? I understand that I should not be repeating it and that will be my focus.
I would worry that anyone who is talking about others that way is also talking about me. But I think you can change the tone of those conversations or introduce another topic. If someone says "OH MY GOD CAN YOU BELIEVE LAFONDA WORE RED LEOPARD PRINT LEGGINGS TO CHURCH?" You can say it's not your style but you have to respect someone who has such a strong sense of her own fashion; follow it with a question: Ask everyone what trend they used to think was hideous and adore now. Figure out how to make positives into negatives. Learn to diffuse situations. I firmly believe you can change the nature of these conversation. I had friends fighting over a wedding date last year and got lots of "OMG can you believe she would do that" phone calls. Instead of engaging in bashing and escalating the situation I would just say, hey, I completely get why you're upset, but it will be an amazing day regardless and I know you'll figure it out. Tell me about your wedding. Sure enough they figured it out and both had beautiful weddings.