Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Unemployment and possible law suit
Hello everyone,
Friday was a pretty rough day for my husband. He was fired for forgetting to clock out the Wednesday before. He was told that this is considered "stealing from the company." He did not claim he stayed later than scheduled nor did he leave early and try to claim he was there until his scheduled time. His entire department can verify this. He has never had any disciplinary issues with the company and worked his butt off for them. He was fired by a the Human Resources manager. My first question is if the company claims my H stole from the company by failing to clock out, is that grounds to deny an unemployment claim? This company is notorious for fighting unemployment requests.
Following his termination, he started to have a panic attack while packing his things. The HR manager told him to leave his things and to immediately leave. He told said resource manager (in front of witnesses) that he was having a panic attack. She told him to leave anyway. While attempting to drive away, the gas pedal became stuck (this car has been a death trap), he lost control and drove into the back of a trailer being used for storage for the company. Thankfully, my H was okay. Just beat up a bit and a laceration on his head. The car was totaled. He crawled out of the back of the car and into the building for help. They called an ambulance. The HR lady then told the police that she believe my H was trying to commit suicide having just lost his job. (Her husband committed suicide several years before and given the circumstances, I can see why she might have initially thought that). However, it was not the case. She kept repeating this to the police even after they told her that per the evidence (there were a ton of skid marks showing that my H was trying to stop) there was clearly a mechanical failure with the car and it was NOT intentional. The cop even came to the hospital to tell me that it was an accident and it was clearly noted in his report.
This HR manager is still telling my H's former coworkers/friends that he wrecked his car intentionally because of his termination. I was under the impression that as an HR, she has to respect my H's privacy and cannot discuss his termination? Would telling people that my husband was trying to commit suicide constitute defamation of character? I am also wondering if she has any liability by making a man having a panic attack leave the premises? While the panic attack did not cause the accident, it did impact his reaction. He may not have been able to stop the car, but possible could have maneuvered it so that is did not hit the trailer.
Sorry about the length and thanks for taking the time to read.
Re: Unemployment and possible law suit
I absolutely would speak to a lawyer about her running her mouth to everyone about it. That is NOT the way a professional HR director works, and actually is the polar opposite of what her job is about. The way she handled the incident and the things she said afterward are things she should be terminated for. The panic attack claim probably will not fly, but I would consult a lawyer on that as well. The hard part will be getting the witnesses to talk. They may fear they will lose their job too if they say anything so that may be difficult. Also, you may have a grounds to sue based on the fact he was not fired for anything concrete. He probably should have been warned first, not just fired because he made a very minor mistake.
Good luck, I hope this is taken care of properly!
Ugh. This stinks.
You really need to consult an attorney - but I do agree that there may be some legal grounds here.
Does your DH have a medically documented history of panic attacks? Do you have documented proof from an unbiased source of the car troubles?
I hate to say it - but having a sticking gas pedal is HIGHLY negligent. Your DH may be held liable for any material damages to the company property. What if a company employee had been standing at the back of the truck? His/her legs would have been broken, or worse.
The HR person's responses were irresponsible, unkind, and truly obscene. SHE should be fired!
It sounds like your DH did make a minor mistake. However, are you sure that he hasn't had any other troubles at work before?
Before you persue legal procedures, you'd better be sure that you have the whole truth from him about work behaviors. This sounds almost too incredulous to be based on solely this issue. Perhaps there were other problems and this was the final straw.
I'm not saying that to be mean, just to prepare you for what could get discovered in a legal proceding. They will dig into everything.
I know that he has had no other work issues. This HR lady has been trying to get rid of people for BS reasons for a while now. They have recently absorbed another company and have been trying to make room for them by forcing current employees to quit. About a month ago they changed everyone's hours in the entire company to an 8 - 5 schedule to begin the next day. Many were in school (including my H) and we told they had a choice, school or work. That day 3 people were forced to quit. My H was luckily enough to switch to night classes so he avoided that decision.
There are several people we know outside of work that has had issues with her. She appointed one person as a security/safety officer but when he called her out for not wearing the proper shoes in the warehouse area, he was fired. My H's boss was "laid off" because of how much he made, they denied his unemployment and the appeal, and they brought him back six months later with a significant decrease in pay. Mid January she created a new occurrence system for tardies/being absent. She made rule retroactive to January 1st resulting in disciplinary action for a few people (my H also was not effected by this). This is a small family owned company that has been passed to different parts of the family over the last couple years but she has remained the HR person.
This woman seems to hold vendettas if you get the better of her. Hence my H's boss, my H and she has had her sights set on another coworker that is on FMLA due to his wife's illness. He has not abused FMLA in anyway but the retroactive occurrence system did effect him. She was forced to rescind his disciplinary action and the retroactive ruling was also rescinded when upper management required her to give the employees notice. Instead the rule went into effect February 1st.
My H has been working full time there while going to college. He is in his final semester of school and upper management has been grooming him to move up when he was finished. Employees at this company are considered full time after 31 hours/week. My H works 35 while in school, 40 during summers and holiday breaks. When he went to her a few years ago to get full time benefits, she said no, they officially he was part time. At the time they had a sister location on the East Coast and it was also their corporate headquarters. He went to them and they forced her to grant him full time benefits. Along with several others in the same position. She has had it out for him ever since. Now, this location is the only location and she is the only HR employee on staff.
Also, this decision did not seem to come from anyone but her. Speaking to others in the company, the normal procedure when terminating someone is having upper management involved in the decision. There is usually a room full of people speaking to the party in question. This time it was just her, my H and his direct boss who seemed to be blindsided.
In order to be irreplacable, one must always be different - Coco Chanel
it happens! People get brain farts or somehow forget in the confusion.
This is fishy and this is disturbing.
Please make sure that your H documents all of this and if he needs to, get an attorney that specializes in employee law and employee rights.
The Department of Labor's wage and hour division (or whatever your state calls it) would be of help; he needs to see a supervisor there and say what happened.
To me, if an employee forgets to punch out, he's paid for the time his hours end and that's it. Usually my boss would write in "5:00 pm" and sign it -- or whatever time it was that it was time for the employee to punch out.
Or we've told the HR department we've forgotten. It was no big deal and it should be no big deal.
Wishing your H luck. let us know what happens.
I agree with this, especially the sticking gas pedal. I understand you immediately want to take husband's side but you should be 3rd person for a second and make sure there's nothing he's forgetting to share before pursuing legal action.
What state do you live in? It is probably an at will work state which means your husband has the right to leave his job at any time for any reason, the same goes for the employer.
I want to tell you I have FIRST hand experience with this exact situation. and there is No legal recourse. My husband was fired two days before Christmas, they told him he had stolen items and falsified documents. My husband had No idea what they were talking about. It cost us the mortgage on a home we were buying, and we had to back out of the housing offer 10 days before closing, losing our $1000 deposit.
My husband requested to see his personnel file. You can send a certified letter to the company asking to see this. They are legally required to respond within 7 days. My husband is STILL waiting to hear back from his request. But again, there is little legal recourse in this, because they can just say it didn't make it from the mail room to an authoritys desk in the company etcetc.
My husband was actually offered his position back alst week. They told him they made a "mistake" when firing him and it was all a "mistunderstanding" we immediately called and attorney. Again, the attorney told us unless my husband was fired because he was a whistele blower that was getting retaliation or a familial firing (which means, they fire you and hire someone from their family in your place, with no known experience in that field) then there is no recourse.
As far as unemployment. Your husband should apply for it. Mine did, and even though they said he was "fired" he can still collect. There is a lag time, but eventually someone from the state will call you adn ask for your side of the story. Then they will call the employer and ask for theirs. the STATE does the ruling whether or not he receives it, so if he tells them that he did not steal anything and he is willing to go on the record that he did not... then they will talk to the employer. If the employer does not have proof, the state will likely vote on your side. In the case of my husband, the employer never responded, (i think this was lilkely because it was around the holidays etc and no one got back to the state in time (in our state they have 9 days)....) so the state honored it for my husband.
I have more information on this if you need.
We spoke to at least 4 attorneys. However, one thing your husband DOES need to do is to call his former employer and ask if they give out reasons why someone has been terminated when people call to verify employment. My husband's company (who is also notorious for firing people for false reasons)...does not. In this case, we still paid an attorney to send a letter that seals his personnel file and admonished the "firing" (since they said it was a mistake). It might be worth your time or money to send a letter from an attorney (this should be less than $250) to the company to tell them since they have no proof of the firing, they can not tell a future employer of the firing.
ALSO, YES you may have some legal recourse about hte HR lady. That's called slander. So I would def. contact a labor attorney about that as well.
We are waiting to hear back from an attorney. And once again, he has not had any other disciplinary issues. In fact, we have already heard from another employee she is setting her sites on (the only who is using FMLA for his wife's illness). As of yesterday there is a new "policy" in which there is absolutely no grace period for clocking in/out on time. If you clock out a minute early or a minute late, you are penalized and rack up "points." The funny thing is this policy only applies to one person. We told him to contact the EEOC. It seems like they are cleaning house for some reason or another.
On the bright side, my H has several leads for excellent job opportunities. We are hoping for this to be a blessing in disguise. We are still waiting to hear back about unemployment but the other people we spoke to that have been terminated seem to have received unemployment without a fight from this company.
We are in Missouri, which is a right to fire state. The only thing an employer can release for employment verification is dates of hire/termination and salary. The only thing we have an interest in regarding legal recourse is the HR lady running her mouth about the circumstances of his termination and that he intentionally crashed the car. I was also worried that they would fight us for unemployment but that doesn't seem to be the case with previous employees so hopefully it won't be an issue for us either.
Thanks for the info about requesting his file. We will look into that. We also spoke to our insurance company about the accident and they said they would handle it (though we will continue to look into it further).
Good news about the jobs. I would still mention to Hr that you may have a letter drafted by an attorney about releasing info to future employers. Even if you don't that might scare her into not saying anything. Just because they arent "supposed" to say anything besides date of hire/fire etc, they can say he was Fired, and ytou don't really want that, it raises red flags to future employers. PLUS with the way she is so loose lipped about everything you don't want her "slipping" and saying anything (you may never find out from a future employer that she said anyting they just might never call him back for another interview or anything...and you won't know why, and won't have proof she said anything at all!)
It's really tricky.
Also, be prepared that even if he can collect, there will be a lag, since he was fired. They always investigate terminations. It does not matter if the company fights it or not, there will still be alag for the investigation. So you may have to dip into your emergency fund for a month or two. It took 8 weeks for us to see an unemployment check (it came 2 weeks after it was approved...) but the approval process is long-so just be prepared. I am sure it varies state to state, but you will at least have a 2 week lag if not more.
A human resource manager conversing about personal/private matters of an employee, even if it's a former employee, is highly unethical. And even though you might not get any legal help, consider having your husband go up the food chain and talk to her boss and file a very detailed complaint with signed statements from other employees.
A decent company would fire her for that, especially because of her job title and her expectations for confidentiality as someone who conducts terminations.
TTC since June 2012
He has had several phone interviews and one person to person interview with a very good company. They said they loved him and want him to meet with the Big Boss for a final decision later this week. It's his dream job and pays almost triple what he was making at the previous place! Fingers crossed! Hopefully we hear some good news later this week.
As for the previous job, no decision has been made as to whether he will get the unemployment benefit. At this point we aren't planning on it but if it does go through, any back pay will just be icing on the cake. What's funny though is one of his previous co-workers contacted him yesterday to get the log in information for a system my H created. It was a system he created just to make things a bit easier there but nothing officially created for the company. He told them no as it's his intellectual property and his software. He also created an unofficial online manual for them that was pretty heavily relied upon and another co-worker that was upset about my H's firing took it down on his behalf. My H would create things for them unofficially that would save them thousands. Looks like they are going to have to cough up that money now.