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Difficult mother
Every few weeks my mom asks when she'll get to see me (and my husband) since we live about an hour and a half from her. It's really difficult for me to plan things because my husband really dislikes her and basically declared that she's not coming over our place alone because he thought the last time was so horrible. He feels like he works a lot, which he does, and that he deserves to have his weekends. If my mom comes over she dictates the whole day and last time she decided to spend the night and he was very frustrated about this.. To make it very short she can be controlling, manipulative, and condescending, and it's almost always impossible to make her realize that because I honestly feel like she has difficulty seeing things from other peoples' perspectives.
I tried to talk to my husband more about this and he just said that my mom can make him very angry. She says a lot of insane things, she asked me if my husband was violent out of nowhere, she often guilts me into spending less time with my dad and always plays the victim when talking about their divorce troubles which gets frustrating because she literally abused him physically and emotionally, she is very hypocritical about her lifestyle but then doesn't hesitate to pass judgment onto us, and she's always trying to get me to stop taking my medication for depression and other things. I understand that she's not a good influence, but I also feel guilty for always trying to avoid her.
The last time she came over she saw my medication and started yelling at me and I'm honestly used to her yelling at me my whole life but my husband says that I have improved so much over the past few years and he doesn't want that to be ruined. He said he never wants her coming over by herself again because of these reasons as well as that she does not respect that it is our home and not hers and she has not financially helped me for a long time.
Another problem is that when I'm around my mom a lot, I get really grumpy and maybe from his perspective I take it mostly out on him. I know that for now I can just try to visit her at her home or have lunch somewhere at a halfway point, but I'm wondering what the answer will be for the long-term.
Re: Difficult mother
This is dead on.
Why exactly would you want her around you? I'm sorry but I'm with your H on this. The fact that your mood changes with her around is doubly unfair to your H. My husband completely gets in a bad mood and real short tempered after seeing his mother. We no longer see her for many reasons but this was one of them, it wasn't and isn't fair to me. Why should your H put up with your Mother and then you being that way?
Thanks. He really is smart. I feel bad because I put him through a similar thing with his mom who is very much like mine. We both struggle with reinforcing boundaries with our families. When his mom doesn't get her way she cries and threatens to hurt herself and when my mom doesn't get her way, she literally stamps her feet and says "No!"
Should I be blunt with my mom and say that her staying over is not upfor discussion? And when I go to my dad's birthday party in a few months and she inevitably gets upset at me for some stupid reason do I just tell her she's being unreasonable? I don't think I've ever told my mom that she can be unreasonable, which is really sad now that I think of it.
Every time I see or spend time with her it's out of obligation. I guess the fact that she gave birth to me makes me feel like I at least owe her the company...but she also didn't really raise me and other family members can attest to that. My aunt actually brought that up to me recently. The message I've always gotten from my family, including my dad who cannot stand her, is "she's horrible, but she's your mother, so you have to have her around." I've never understood that logic and I still don't.
I don't know if telling she's unreasonable is going to really get you the results you want, but if she gets upset for something stupid - find ways to deal with it. "Thanks for your opinion" then change the topic. Or "I understand you're upset. Let's talk again when you're feeling better" and then get off the phone.
Honestly - I might recommend counseling too in order to help you find more effective ways of setting boundaries with her. Because that's what this boils down to. Boundaries. She's your mom, but she doesn't have the right to run you over in order to get what she wants. she doesn't have the right to belittle you, or to make you feel bad for seeing your dad, etc.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I think for the time being, you should just plan to meet your mom for lunch or some shopping at a half way point. Maybe do this once a month? I would eventually sit with her and let her know that her accusations, outbursts, and poor advice are upsetting to you and DH, and you have a hard time spending time with her in your home for these reasons. If she's open to working on it, maybe have her over once every 3-4 months, but if she reverts to the same behavior, let her know you're going to need to go back to meeting in a neutral location.
If DH is having similar problems with his mom, maybe he could try a similar approach?
I never understand the argument of "but he/she is family" as a reason why you have to let someone treat you negatively. Personally - I think you should be able to expect family to treat you BETTER than the rest of the world. Not worse.
You're an adult. YOU get to choose who and how you spend your time. If you don't want to see her, then don't.
But again, to what I said before, this is all easier said than done and seeing a counselor might help you out. Or perhaps read some books on toxic parents - because that's what she sounds like. Toxic.
Good luck.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
It is a way for people to brush off her behavior so they don't really have to deal with her. The thing is you don't have to see, talk or put up with her. It's very easy you start calling her out on her BS each and every time. She stomps her feet and screams NO, you point out her 2 year old behavior and tell her NO again. She won't like it but so what? That is her issue not yours. It's an uphill battle but if she changes even a little bit it's worth it.
Oh and family counseling for you and your H, don't want the scars of y'all's childhood screwing you in the future.
This. And speaking of books on toxic parents, there was one that I read called 'Toxic Inlaws' that was really good - and you can apply some of the techniques with your own mother in addition to your MIL. (and good for your H to read too) The author also wrote a book called 'Toxic Parents', and I imagine that one is good as well....so check those 2 books out....
What I meant with that statement is that every time she comes over she rearranges everything and organizes the whole place according to her standards and not ours and it drives us crazy. She fully expects me to help her clean my own home when all I want to do is spend quality time and watch a movie or something and she will literally clean non-stop for hours and will complain if we don't help. When both our mothers were over they insisted on moving our furniture around to make everything better and I kept shrugging them off. The sad thing is that once in a while there is good advice but sometimes I just don't want to listen at all.
The second part of the sentence means that she has made many demands of me from what college I was going to, one time we were at her friends house and she literally pinched me and said that I wasn't going to go away and dorm because I had to keep an eye on my dad and make sure he wasn't going to get serious with his now wife. She did not offer to help pay for the wedding because she thinks my dad makes too much money but she tried to dictate the wedding planning anyway, I was not allowed to invite my stepmother and I was not allowed to attend my dad's wedding even though he was supporting me at the time and she wasn't giving me any money. When we used to stay over at my dad's for a visit we would all lie to my mom about where we were and if she'd suspect we were at his place and she called his phone, we'd all just stare at the caller ID like some psychopath was stalking us.
The more I type the more I realize how absurd it was that I let that all happen and I feel so bad that I haven't been there for my dad a lot. The sad thing is there was a point that I did want to live with my mom and she said no because she wanted to spite my dad...who knows why I care/d about her feelings so much.
As for the comment about guilt, you're totally right. Even when my husband has told her in the past that she does it, she denies it and by that logic I don't owe her anything.
I actually think I've heard of that book before. I know it's not the same condition but last year I bought a book for my husband on how to deal with a mother who has borderline personality disorder, since my therapist said she sounded like a textbook case. I guess "toxic" is a good identifier as any. My therapist asked if I thought my mom was bipolar but I don't really see that and sometimes I think some sort of diagnosis would help me figure out how to dealw ith her more.
As for the comments about therapy, my psychiatrist asked me if I'm considering it because I was venting a lot about my mom.
So she and your MIL show you both a total lack of respect and you shrug it off. This is not healthy for two adults to allow. The underlining point I keep getting is that your mother has zero respect for you and you always do or allow her demands over what you want. Stop this now. Tell her to stop.
Look it seems that your mother has a powerful hold over you. I agree with seeking out a trained professional who can give you the tools you need to handle your toxic mother. You think things are bad now ? Just wait until kids come along ? IS she going to tell you who you can and cannot allow to a birthday party ?
We don't want kids but I get the point. There are people I would think about inviting that she would have a tantrum about. Part of my problem is that I'm not as assertive as I think I am. I have to be willing to say no and mean it and be ready for whatever threats she'll have more me. Regarding my stepmom's family, she said when I was younger that because I went over to their house once, she seriously considered cutting me out of her life (some of her friends told her she should do this, neecless to say they weren't invited to my wedding) and never talking to me again and that she would do it if it happened again. That has always been a source of anxiety for me, wondering what would happen if I did see them and was actually friendly, god forbid.
That is emotional blackmail. Do what I want or I will never talk to you again.
Again, your mom behaves this way because people let her. Now, I am not saying she really wouldn't cut you out if you talked to the wrong person, maybe she would. But you have to stop and think, why would I want someone in my life like that anyways. You life might actually be better if your mom wasn't in it. I know there are a few people on this board who cut off toxic parents and they have said it was the healthiest decision they ever made for themselves.
Besides, when you married your husband, you VOWED to forsake all others and let no one come between you two. Do you think that is what you are doing now ?
Again, I know my advice is easier said than done, I realize that. However, that is why it is vitally important for you to go to a counselor who is trained in these kind of family situations.
I feel VERY sorry that you are having to go through this. As I read a long time ago, either Dear Abby or Ann Landers, "No one can take advantage of you unless you let them".
Thankfully I have a wonderful mother who has always been one of my best friends. With that as a role model, I've always tried to keep a parental, but good relationship with my kids who are now adults. However, I have had several relationships with very immature or mean men, before I met the man I married.
So, my advice is from the perspective of dealing with those bad guys. The guilt you feel is different than what I had with those men, but I think the approach can be the same. It would appear from what you've said in your numerous posts that in person or telephonic conversations always end badly. Your Mom is essentially acting like a child, and having tantrums, and you are giving in. Never a good result.
I'd sit down and type out a letter, saying everything you feel, how she makes you feel, and the behaviors that you consider intolerable. Re-read that letter several times, and edit it to sound softer, or more assertive, whatever you as a rational and adult person feel. I would end it with "I am sorry our relationship has reached this point, but to be honest, I refuse to allow you to make me feel this badly any longer. When you can improve upon your behavior when seeing me, call me and we'll talk. If I don't believe you have explained how you will change to my satisfaction, then we won't be meeting. I hope this doesn't end our mother-daughter relationship, but I have my own life to live and I have chosen to surround myself with people that I want to be with, not people I have to be with". Then send it. Yes, it may be the chicken way out, but based on what you've said, it ends the entire merry-go-round of calls and visits that make you feel guilty, sad or angry. This way, she gets the letter and reads it, can ponder the things you say, and respond when she has thought it over. I wouldn't answer the phone if you know it's her right away, allow yourself the time to feel better about what you've said, and allow her the time to decide how to respond. I'd wait at least a month. If she shows up, you don't have to answer the door.
I'm sorry, but this relationship with your mother is totally toxic. I went through a 5 year period with my daughter's dad, with counseling several times...........he wanted me to lie to the counselor about his relationship with my son (not his son) because he hated it when I told the truth. His inability to face the truth of his behavior made the attempts to work out our problems impossible.
If all these attempts by you result in the fact you no longer have a relationship with your mother, then so be it. I don't mean to sound cruel or insensitive. I totally understand you only get one mom in life, and maintaining a relationship is always the desired goal. However, NO ONE deserves to be treated the way you are being treated by her, whether it is your Mom, Dad, sibling, boyfriend, boss, coworker or friend. It's called abuse, and only you can bring it to an end.
Good luck with your situation. Again, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this.
Thanks everyone for your advice. I think I'm going to ask my husband to be up front with me when I'm caving in because I really need someone to tell me when I'm being too passive.
Sometimes when I look back on all these things it just makes me really sad sometimes and I feel like really distancing myself from her for the sake of myself, my husband, and my dad.
I think I used to get annoyed at my husband for occasionally mentioning how horrible my mom is sometimes--he mentioned that I always give her too much credit and let her get away with a lot. It's almost like she was a troubled child that I had to raise and I'm just grateful that she's not as bad she used to be when I was a child but I don't feel like getting into what she used to do. Honestly, I always hold out hope that she'll do or say something to me that makes me believe she loves me unconditionally and all that, but I'm grown up now, it still hasn't happened, and I shouldn't wait around for that to happen. It's not healthy or fair to a lot of other people who actually care for me the right way.
I think I will write a letter soon to her, but I won't deliver it. I've written my parents letters in the past especially when I was a very angsty teen and it never really changed anything with her.
At a certain point, you have to accept your mom for who she is, a toxic person. She isn't going to suddenly turn around and be the loving, kind and supportive mom you want and need. It's not going to happen. It is sad that she isn't the mom you deserve, but it is the reality.
If she adds nothing to your life but heartbreak and misery, then she doesn't belong in your life.