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H problem
H contacted a lawyer to send to our neighbors about disturbances such as parties, illegal motorized scooters, and illegal fireworks. He thought I would argue with him, and did not tell me. The neighbors brought the letter back over to me with a comment. I was blindsided that I had to find out that way. I had a huge argument with H, and complained to the lawyers. Maybe it was dumb to complain to them, but I figured we might be a legal entity in that we are spouses and own the house together that I should have had a say in the matter. I am now getting harassed by the neighbors.
Should I write a letter to the neighbors saying thank you for bringing it to my attention, I was not aware of the letter? Or do I have to pretend to be a unit with my H even though he went behind my back to do this? I don't want to be soft and undo the lawyer's letter, but H had no intention of ever telling me this. Maybe I don't want the neighbors to know our problems either. I just want to be cordial with them.
They had 1 party ever, and the firecrackers weren't that bad IMO. H says he asked them to stop and they laughed and aimed them toward our house. I don't think he said anything to them because he told me they were drunk and so he just called the cops. So I think he is changing his story to make his case seem better. he also made sure to stand outside with the cops so they knew it was him, rather than protect me and the kids by remaining anonymous. Even thought the letter was anonymous they knew it was us (really him, because I had no idea).
I believe he is untrustworthy, and I am super pissed. I know this sounds like MUD, right? I wish it was...
Re: H problem
Jfc. No, don't write a letter to your neighbors. If you don't agree w what your DH did, that's between you and him. Not them.
I sense there is more to this/ more to what is going on In Your marriage. But hell. Don't put your neighbors before your DH.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
oh I know it's a bad ideas. I listed about 5 reasons why already. I'm just pissed because he put his feud with the neighbors before our marriage. He was apologetic but also bragged about how he'd rather ask for an apology than permission. I would love to sink to his level, but really it only makes things worse, and I have to be the better person. Sometimes I'm tired of always being the better person in relationships.
If these were things that went on more than once (more than one loud party that lasted into the wee hours and repeated fireworks at their place), all he needed to do was contact the police and/or your councilman.
Let the powers that be take care of matters like these.
Looks like he made a mountain out of a molehill.
i know he keeps doing that. He gets so mad. I wonder if he is trying to sabotage where we live or something because this is the 2nd neighbor he has gone after. The first one he talked to like 6 times about a noise disturbance that i slept through. We were friends, and now I've lost those friends and my babysitter. The babysitter is important because DH travels and sometimes I have to work nights after daycare closes. It's like he doesn't think of me at all.
Call this weird,but it almost sounds like an anger control issue --- he needs to cut this out and cut it out now.
He can't keep doing this.
If this was a case where there were repeated loud parties, another story --- this would be for the cops to handle, as I said.
Maybe your H should talk to an anger control counselor. There's some kind of issue here where he has to get the last word --- it's also immature -- and that's not cool at all.
These two parts struck me.
The first one was a d!ck move in violation of the spirit of marriage. I could be wrong, but it also stinks of misplaced machismo.
The second struck me as off, because it stinks of unhealthiness. Either you are correct-and really need better people around you, because this is not how things have to be-or, bluntly, have a bit of a martyr complex. I usually try to phrase these things better, but I can't think of a way right now. A martyr complex is bad for all relationships in life, and could seriously impact your marriage. I'm not saying this to give me some sort of ego boost, just to give you something to consider. I've seen people with matryr complexes hurt the relationships around them again and again, and people with multiple bad relationships just get drained, exhausted, and bitter.
Thanks for your perspective . I am a loyal person so I tend to hang onto relationships long after they have died. I've had a friend treat me horribly but I had to play nice because we have a lot of mutual friends and she was going through a tough time. Sometimes I think it would me nice to unleash the immature reaction, but then I have to stop and think I am a grown up with kids and want to be a good role model etc.
Honestly though, your H has some serious issues and you should not just bury your head in the sand. The fact that he completely went over your head all because he has some issue with your neighbors is both immature and wrong. The fact that he admitted that he would rather do this - go over your head - speaks volumes about what kind of a man he is. And you have kids too - do you want them growing up and seeing this behavior AND thinking that this is okay? What kind of role model is he? Think about that - if not for your sake, think of your kids.
Well we've talked/argued about it for about 2 days so I wouldn't say I am burying my head in the sand. But that is funny you say that because he said I was burying my head in the sand about the neighbors. I guess I give off the burying my head in the sand vibe.
I told him its a matter of perspective. The things they were doing were not that bad. Whats wrong with calling the cops or the city or talking to them in person. Instead of jumping to the letter. I've literally probably said that 100 times how upset and hurt I am. I think he realizes that because the neighbors didn't just say oh my bad and act nice, that he made things way way worse. And that his way is not the only way. I do think he has anger issues and has a hard time dealing with conflict. I worked with him this afternoon on a plan for dealing with conflict (if X happens you do Y) kind of thing. I don't understand why I have to spell it out, but it is not something that comes easy to him.
I've told him if he wants it to be his show instead of us working together as a team then he can move out. Right now, I am not going to move out of my home because of issues he has with the neighbors. Why should I change my life (sell the house, buy a new one, uproot the kids etc.) because of his problems, especially when neighbor problems happen wherever you live? But I will work with him on his problems.
Any suggestions for a "consequence" to his action, or do you think that us arguing about it for 2 days is enough of a consequence? I do want to make it 100% crystal clear that this going over my head and making enemies for me basically is not acceptable. Oh I did make him give me his password to his e-mail since he has proven himself "untrustworthy".
yea, sorry...maybe that term was not the best one since you have told him that you are angry by his behavior. The thing is, ultimately, if that was the first time the neighbors have done this, it was not necessary for your H to do what he did. I could see if this was a regular occurrence, then going that route, but only after the other options of dealing with the problem have been exhausted.
My H & I dj and produce music...in fact, we have a studio in our basement. We've sound proofed it as best we could and you can't hear anything from outside, unless you open the basement windows, but we did tell our neighbors about the studio and told them if it is ever loud and they wish us to turn it down, just call or knock on the door....luckily we only have one neighbor next to us to deal with, but we at least communicate with them like civilized people. Same deal the rare occasion we have a party in our house - we let them know and tell them if its too loud, just tell us. We even extend an invite to them too.
Really, it's so important to have at least a cordial relationship with neighbors. You don't have to be BFF with them, but at least be civilized. Your H needs to learn that there are better ways of dealing with neighbors than his way. I mean, if he had approached them in a more respectful manner, I imagine the outcome to this would be much different. And no, arguing for 2 days really isn't a consequence if he's just going to basically tell you to your face that he is ok with going behind your back with this stuff.
Thanks for your responses and help. It is such a difficult situation because I am just now getting all the info from H. he is now saying that when he asked them to stop with the fireworks they laughed and aimed the next one at him. I really wish he would have told me everything. If I had known that and we still did the letter, then we could have made sure that the letter stated that rather than just a generic you shot off fireworks. Also when the family member came over I could have told them that rather than stared at them blankly in confusion.
I hope this is the accurate story at this point.
Here's a question - when this all was going on, where were you? Like if he went out to tell them to cool it with the fireworks and they then decided to light one off and aim it at your H, when he came back into the house, why did he not say anything about that in that moment? Why is he just now telling you that they did that? Something doesn't add up here.....I'm wondering if your H is telling the truth about what really happened. Especially given the past issues he had with the previous neighbors....when the neighbors came and said something to you, what did they say about what happened? Or did they just yell about the letter?
i was inside the house with the kids. H came in and called the cops. The cops came and he talked to them outside. They said unless they saw what happened they couldn't do anything. I think if he had been hurt or if there was property damage. When he came in he said they aimed it at the house. I think it was more like he felt they aimed it at him. What their intent was I don't know. It was the teenage sons. The parents were home but not out with the kids. At first H said the parents were there and later he said they were in a different part of the yard.
The neighbors fake asked me to an imaginary party, handed me the letter and left. It was actually their teenage daughter. The the mom yelled at H that he was uneighborly, that they took it seriously ( not sure if really or sarcastically).
He has gone over a couple of times once for the party which they took the party down a notch, and once for burning leaves they told him to bugger off that time, soI guess he didn't feel comfortable talking to the parents because he thought they wouldn't care.
They are known around the neighborhood as letting their children run wild.
This all sounds incredibly codependent. It sounds like you think you are responsible for his behavior. You aren't.
Talking/ arguing about it for 2 days can't be pleasant for either of you, especially if there is still no resolution after 2 days.
Why tell him how upset you are "100 times?" That must be completely draining for you to keep saying it and highly annoying for him to keep hearing it. Once is enough.
"Working with him on his problems" and asking for a idea for a "consequence" make it sound like you are his mother. You're coaching him on anger management? We do that for our kids, not for grown men!
The bottom line here is that you two disagree about how to handle the neighbors. I personally agree with you and think his way is nuts, but he is a grown man and can handle the consequences of his decision. There is no need for you to feel embarrassed on his behalf, and no need for you to try and repair the relationship with the neighbors.
It's reasonable to ask him to discuss neighbor issues with you before he does anything dramatic, like send a letter from a lawyer. I think it's troublesome that he won't agree to such a reasonable request. But everything else in your post sounds like a codependent, micromanaging mess, albeit with the best of intentions.
You'd mentioned wanting to be a role model for your kids. A great lesson to teach them here is how to let someone they love stand on his own two feet, or fall and pick himself back up, without needing a caretaker to manage it for him. Your kids will do better in their future relationships if they see a healthy one at home.
Leave this whole mess with the neighbors alone. Work with your DH on how to handle conflict so it doesn't turn into a 2 day fight. And if he makes a habit of disregarding reasonable requests of yours, I'd reevaluate the marriage. This time it's the neighbors, but next time it could be a huge financial or medical decision about the kids that he does solo.
Good luck to you!
I agree it is incredibly draining to fight that long. I am still angry and I guess I need to learn to hold my anger in and not say anything. I have tried the its your mess you figure it out, but its beyond him. He doesn't know what to do. I've contacted the lawyer to find out if what the neighbors are doing us harassment. Once I know how to keep me and the kids safe, I will leave it alone. I agree it is co dependent that I coach DH on handling conflict. The problem is he gets in a conflict, and I have to listen to him complain about it for days. I have to have the neighbors harass me, or listen to his sister sob because they had a fight. How do I keep his inability to manage conflict effectively from affecting my life? This may be a great question for a counselor.
I wouldn't write anything to your neighbors. Since your husband got lawyers involved, I'm sure your neighbors will save any hard copy / form of communication they can between you guys to have on file.
I would though talk to your husband about facing difficult situations like this together rather than without each other.
Yes, that is exactly the question for the counsellor. And there are answers to that question that will make your life better.
Am I the only one that thinks that you are waaaaay over the top and horrible about this? Holy crap woman!
Do you have ANY respect for your husband? At all? This is his home too! So what if their noise didn't wake YOU up, it woke HIM up and kept HIM up and that's a legitimate problem - just because it doesn't bother you doesn't meant that his concerns are invalid.
He had a problem with your neighbours. He felt that they had AIMED FIREWORKS AT HIM AND HIS HOME!!! And you're not backing him up on this? Really? They do sound like neighbours from hell. He's probably told you about how these neighbours make him feel. Repeatedly, but you probably brushed it off and wouldn't care. How do you think that would make HIM feel? That his wife completely disregards his concerns?
How did the lawyer thing even come about? Maybe he was talking to a lawyer friend or something about it and they offered to write a quick letter. Why is this such a big deal? How the hell is this compromising the physical security of yourself and your children? Where the hell do you live that this would compromise the physical security of your family, Rwanda???? Kabul???
And then you contacted the lawyer to have a go at them for not approving it with his wife first?!? What is wrong with you?
And then you made him give you his email password because he has proven himself to be untrustworthy? Holy crap! Did you also take away his Xbox and ground him from having friends over for two weeks? Put a gps tracker on his phone? He's probably cheating on you too. Completely untrustworthy behaviour.
And now you want to apologize to the neighbours? And say what, exactly?
I cannot believe that you have spent two days making your husband's life hell over this. I simply cannot believe that you are THIS upset about something like this, and that you in absolutely no way and through none of your actions have supported your husband's opinion or actions on something that he obviously felt strongly about.
You know what? I'm going to do it. I'm going to actually whip out the Great Nest Cliche. I genuinely feel sorry for your husband in this situation.
Yep. I said it. It's out there. Can't take it back now. Sorry.
I can see how you would be frustrated by this and, if I were in your situation I'm sure that I would feel the same way - but I do think that this is a massive overreaction on your part (hey, it happens) and that your much, much bigger problem is that you don't trust your husband, you are causing him to hide things from you, you don't support each other and you don't validate each others feelings about situations and things that are obviously significant to each other.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
Tofu, I think that you always give a valuable perspective but disagree with you on this one.
Her husband seems to have made up the story about aiming the fireworks as an afterthought. And it was one party.
He also made it clear how he felt about his wife not backing him up-he would rather brag about not asking for permission, but forgiveness.
And honestly, I would not like to live around hostile neighbors, but I would especially not like to attract the attention of their somewhat wild teenagers. Those kids be crazy. Also, the letter represented both of them, and she didn't even know about it. And this is the second neighbor he's done this with.
Plus, he gave her his email password because he proved he would rather go behind her back and then brag to her about it afterward. Not that she should have to check on her husband's email like he's a kid. He should be able to manage his anger-and have respect for her.
There are obviously larger problems here with them as a couple, and I think she-and everyone, besides her h-agrees.
Thanks Manther - I generally feel that your advice and perspective on things is spot on.
I think on this one we are going to have to just agree to disagree.
Yes, it was one party. But didn't she also say in the OP that their kids run wild, they've been noisy before, etc.? The vibe I get from the OP is that her husband is really bothered by these neighbours and that she doesn't see his concerns as valid, because they don't directly effect (affect?) her, which I don't agree with.
I don't know if he was bragging about preferring to ask for forgiveness than permission - but the feeling I got from reading it was that she constantly dismisses his concerns, so he felt the need to go behind her to do it. He tried to do it anonymously, failed at that, but the fact that he actually got a lawyer involved in this gives me reason to think that to him this is a serious issue that she was just dismissing as invalid - and I would be incredibly hurt if my husband did that to me.
Given that this is the second neighbour that he has done this with yes, I'll give you that one. He sounds like the type that would be well suited toward an acreage or something without direct neighbours.
The email password, although I see your point, I still feel that it is a massive overreaction on OP's part. That he has proven himself to be "untrustworthy" - I just can't get over that part. This is how you treat a teenager, not a husband and partner in life.
Yes, he should be able to better manage his anger. I don't know if sitting him down and going through scenarios of acceptable actions like a toddler is the best way to do that, myself. She should also be able to better control her emotional reactions to things (she even herself admitted that her calling the lawyer to biitch them out was dumb) and for her to harp on him about it non-stop for 2 days is hardly healthy either.
It doesn't sound to me like EITHER of these two respect each other - not just that her husband is an untrustworthy weasel.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
On most of it I'd agree, the two of them seem to be about equal in how they treat each other. But two things stand out to me.
First, that the husband did not give her a heads up that he was sending the lawyer letter. That left her to find out (inevitably) in an awkward, humiliating way, from the neighbors directly. I can see why he wouldn't want to consult her on it beforehand, but he needs to be man enough to at least tell her about it. Even if he doesn't intend to seek her opinion, tell her what he did, so she isn't blindsided by the neighbors.
Second, that this already happened once before, with neighbors she was friends with. And she lost the friends over it. Maybe they've just had the bad luck to live by two sets of neighbors from hell, but I doubt it. I think he gets some screwed up payoff from creating unnecessary conflict.
At least her bad treatment of him has been between the two of them. She's not going out and deliberately causing problems for him in the neighborhood or with his friends. He is.
Thanks for your perspective. Yes the reason he went behind my back was because he thought I was unsupportive. The reason I was unsupportive was because I thought he was making a mountain out of a mole hill. He did not give me all the information. He didn't tell me that he thought they aimed the firework at him until after the letter. I wouldn't say I disregarded his concerns, but that the police were called and I thought they police handled it and that the matter was over.
The lawyer, DH, and I all had a very good conference call on all of this. He has dealt with many neighbor situations and had some very good advice. Of course I understand anyone can hire a lawyer and attorney/ confidentiality. The end result of me contacting him is that I am on all communications per DH. The lawyer took my "fear" very seriously and helped us to determine what was a threat, what to do if they come on my property again, how to document further issues with them, and how to get the city and police involved in a less official way. No I don't live in a bad area, but I don't know if these people are inconsiderate jerks who will behave better or total crazies.
I didn't know what to say to the neighbors. Really there is nothing I can say. Now that a lawyer is involved anything I write like Nest Cayla said would be saved and probably damning. I couldn't back down from the legal letter, and does it really matter to them that I didn't know? They would probably think I was lying. I just don't want a gigantic war over this, but there is no way to fix it. Maybe the lawyer letter will help, maybe I would have agreed to it. But the point was, I wasn't told about it.
On the e-mail things its not really a big deal to DH because we have always had each other passwords and were in each other accounts. We actually have the same account with 2 different users.
I think my massive overreaction is that if there are problems in my marriage DH could have told me. Yeah he felt I was unsupportive, but we could have worked past that and gotten on the same page. I probably would have gone along with the talk to a lawyer thing and followed the lawyer's advice on the back end of things. I am not sure I would have agreed to the letter or not, but I never had that choice did I?
My marriage isn't perfect, but I really don't think anyone's marriage is as perfect as some people present their on the Nest.
I asked my H and he doesn't want your sympathy on having an awful wife. But he would like it for the awful neighbors!
You know, I just wanted to come back and say that it's really cool that you have been able to view this from another angle and recognize faults within your own reaction - most people don't take well to criticism and kudos to you, really. I, for one, have learned a little something from you and I hope that others have too.
Although I will admit it's much more entertaining when people come back with the whole "you don't know me, you're not allowed to comment unless you agree and goodbye cruel nest !!!ELEVETY!!!!!"
LOL, and yes, I do feel sorry for you guys and think your neighbours are complete jerks. Can I just say though, and this might be jumping off topic, that your neighbours kind of sound like bullies and bullies get away with it because people are too afraid to rock the boat. I get that you want to keep the peace for a number of reasons, but I think there is value in not taking their crap too.
What did they say when they came over to you? That seems to be a pretty ballsy and aggressive move on their part.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk