Update on "Ideas on breed" and ???

Mama-Bear

We brought her home when we saw her on 8/02 (Friday).  That night she was so scared (which made DH and I nervous around our kids, we know a frightened dog is an unpredictable dog).  We haven't used a crate, we put her in our laundry room at night and when we're gone.  We let her out on Saturday morning and she peed all over the place coming out in the morning.  We had a temporary leash/collar and headed to PetSmart.  When we got in the door the poor girl was too scared to even get off of the front rug.  We let the boys pick out a leash (she didn't have one at her last home) and matching collar.  She was not a fan in the least.  The associate there gave us a stick of Pupperoni.  That got her moving.  We would tear off just a tiny piece and she'd take a few steps to us.  She was walking on the leash wonderfully by the time we left.  Later that day we discovered she had fleas.  Gave her a bath with flea shampoo, brushed with a flea comb, and applied Advantix.  By that time she was really coming out of her shell.  By Sunday she was acting like she'd been here forever.  Not sure how she was treated at her last home, she acts as if she wasn't fed enough or maybe food was put down and which dog was there was the one to be able to eat, she eats it all within 3 minutes every time (I feed her 1 cup 3x/day and 1.5 cup once per day). 

She's doing really well, hasn't shown any kid of aggression.  I take her food from her at times while eating to prevent food aggression (rarely, pretty much so she gets used to it that way if our boys ever do it she doesn't freak out) without even a 2nd look, she just waits for me to put it back (I was mostly afraid of the food aggression because of how crazy she scarfed it down, I was thinking maybe she had to snap the other dog at her last house to be able to eat).  She is a hyper puppy and she's getting big fast, I can already see a noticeable difference in her size.  Our vet confirmed that she is about 6m.  We had no vet records and he didn't want to trust that she had been vaccinated like the previous owner had stated (I called random vets in her area, one said that they had the owner as a customer but no dog on file matching the description) so we started from scratch.  DH and I get free vet service so I know it's not that he just wanted to make a few extra bucks.  She was spayed last Wednesday (8/14) and is healing well.  Poor girl does get sick in the car and drools uncontrollably though, we're trying to get her desensitized so we take her on short trips.

So here's my trouble.  I've owned several dogs in my life that we've gotten as young puppies.  This is the oldest dog I've ever gotten.  She's about 50/50 housebroken.  She'll do her business outside, has a doggie door, but will also go inside AT LEAST once per day.  She has her favorite places, she likes to pee downstairs in our dining room, or pee and poop upstairs in our playroom but will also go in our room or the other bedrooms.  Even if she's just gone out 30 minutes prior she may pee a bit on our carpet.  I'm not sure if her age is making it more difficult, if it's at attitude issue, or if I just don't remember struggling this much for this long.  It seemed like before a puppy would end up going a few times per day in the house but after a week or two it was rare to have an accident.  I'm home all day so she's not locked up, she goes in and out of the doggie door all day, but she doesn't always go out to potty (sometimes will, sometimes won't).

While I'm at it.  How can I deter the biting of things and mouthing of us without putting bitter apple on EVERYTHING.  She's not teething, she has all of her dog teeth.  If it wasn't for the chewing and going pee/poop in our house we'd leave her out when we left and at night, I hate locking her up at night, she looks so heartbroken every night. 

The last pup we got was 2.5 months and  was pretty easy.  She's 7 now and lives with IL's, she loves it there and FIL can't be away from her (we brought her home a few weeks ago for a couple of days and both she and FIL were miserable the whole time).  She had the normal puppy issues, but I don't remember her biting/housebreaking being this difficult so I don't know if it's just because this new pup was 6m when we got her or if I just don't remember accurately.

Mama-Bear

Oops, sorry for the double post.

LuckyAngel07

First: STOP taking her food away when she's eating. This isn't a way to prevent food agression; it's a way to PROMOTE it. Just put her food down and let her eat and teach your LOs that we never ever take the doggy's bowl away or bother her while she's eating. 

Some dogs are just gulpers when it comes to eating. If you want her to slow down, spread her meal out on a cookie tray or put it into something like a Kong Wobbler or Tug-A-Jug. These make her work to get her food out, so she also ends up getting a mental workout while eating. It's a win-win.

If you're not using positive reinforcement to housetrain her, she's just going to think it's okay to go wherever she wants. You need to take the initiative of taking her outside yourself pretty often and praising her and rewarding her for going potty outside. Make a HUGE deal out of it like it's the most exciting thing in the world. And simply don't let her wander off on her own to go potty in the house until she's fully housebroken. If you don't catch her in the act, you can't redirect her outside, and the behavior becomes harder to break. Keep her gated downstairs with you or tethered/leashed to you so she can't slink away and find a place to potty without you noticing so you can taking her outside. It would help to close doors to any rooms you don't want her wandering into (how easy is that?!). And clean any and all accidents (pee, poop, vomit) with an ezymatic cleaner, or she'll still be able to smell the spot and think it's okay to go there again.

Mouthing is a typical puppy behavior. You need to give a loud "OWCH!" whenever she mouth/bites. This should startle her, and you can redirect her to a toy or chewy that's appropriate for her to have in her mouth (never encourage any sort of play with yourself, your H, or your LOs that has her play-biting/mouthing either, or you'll be totally set back). You can look up Victoria Stilwell videos on You Tube as well; I'm fairly certain I've seen at least one "It's Me or the Dog" clip that handles puppy biting.

chrisnjay05212010

Lucky gave you great advice.

The only thing we did do with our pup was when he was eating, we would pet him on his head or his body to know that its ok if someone is near him/touching him when eating but no one is going to touch his food.

6 months is still young, she is going to use her mouth alot. The ouch worked for us and we would re-direct the attention to a toy. 

musac15

Yes, yes yes -- Stop taking her food away!!!! It, indeed, promotes food aggression. We sometimes pet our guys when they're eating..but thats about the extent of it. 

You'd also probably see greater success in housebreaking if you crate trained. Until you're open to doing that, I don't have a whole lot of advice for you. Keep taking her outside regularly, lots of praise when she goes outside, and keep a watchful eye on her 100% of the time inside. Since you're not crating, she'll still probably go inside when she's alone when she has to go until she grows up a bit. 

Mama-Bear

We do a lot of positive reinforcement when she goes potty outside and no negative for accidents inside.  We're not opposed to crates specifically, but we wouldn't have her in a crate long term (just until housebroken and she stopped chewing on EVERYTHING), we don't want to spend $130 on a crate to use for 2m (we're estimating that she'll be another 5"-6" taller and be around 60-70 pounds when she's full grown).  She has never had an accident in our laundry room (it's very small, especially with our W/D and toy box in there.  There's a little corner for her pet bed and maybe another 8-10 sqft other than the pet bed.  Good to know on the food, DH started it with our past pup and she never had any issues so we continued with this dog.  Again, I was just afraid that if the boys got near her with how starving she was acting that she would snap at them (and I also wanted to be the one she bit if there was aggression other than learn there's a problem from them getting bitten).  I do go up and pet her often while she eats, she doesn't seem to really even notice. 

So do you not think she'll be harder to housebreak because of being 6m?  I know 6m is still very young, but as I said, every other dog I've had was as a very small puppy (2-3m, one was even the puppy from another so from the day she was born, there was no housebreaking her, she went out when mom when out when she got old enough).    We have a baby gate at the top of the steps (where there's carpet) so she does stay confined to where we are usually.  Yesterday was almost accident free, finally that evening I was doing laundry in our room and when I had my back turned to her she peed.  I stopped her and took her right outside.  She didn't go again.

The boys absolutely love her and she seems to really enjoy them.  When they come down in the morning she's so excited she jumps on them (we're working on puppy manners, we've only had her 2.5w) and it's not rare for her to knock one of our twins down.  I take her with us to pick DS1 up from K and he likes to show her off to all of his friends as they walk by our car.  Her vomiting in the car seems to have improved, now it's just the drooling. 

I'll have to check out the Kong toy.  We have the original and will sometimes fill it with PB.  We also have soft Kong toy (I love that you can replace just the squeaker).  I never knew they made one for food.

Mama-Bear

We do a lot of positive reinforcement when she goes potty outside and no negative for accidents inside.  We're not opposed to crates specifically, but we wouldn't have her in a crate long term (just until housebroken and she stopped chewing on EVERYTHING), we don't want to spend $130 on a crate to use for 2m (we're estimating that she'll be another 5"-6" taller and be around 60-70 pounds when she's full grown).  She has never had an accident in our laundry room (it's very small, especially with our W/D and toy box in there.  There's a little corner for her pet bed and maybe another 8-10 sqft other than the pet bed.  Good to know on the food, DH started it with our past pup and she never had any issues so we continued with this dog.  Again, I was just afraid that if the boys got near her with how starving she was acting that she would snap at them (and I also wanted to be the one she bit if there was aggression other than learn there's a problem from them getting bitten).  I do go up and pet her often while she eats, she doesn't seem to really even notice. 

So do you not think she'll be harder to housebreak because of being 6m?  I know 6m is still very young, but as I said, every other dog I've had was as a very small puppy (2-3m, one was even the puppy from another so from the day she was born, there was no housebreaking her, she went out when mom when out when she got old enough).    We have a baby gate at the top of the steps (where there's carpet) so she does stay confined to where we are usually.  Yesterday was almost accident free, finally that evening I was doing laundry in our room and when I had my back turned to her she peed.  I stopped her and took her right outside.  She didn't go again.

The boys absolutely love her and she seems to really enjoy them.  When they come down in the morning she's so excited she jumps on them (we're working on puppy manners, we've only had her 2.5w) and it's not rare for her to knock one of our twins down.  I take her with us to pick DS1 up from K and he likes to show her off to all of his friends as they walk by our car.  Her vomiting in the car seems to have improved, now it's just the drooling. 

I'll have to check out the Kong toy.  We have the original and will sometimes fill it with PB.  We also have soft Kong toy (I love that you can replace just the squeaker).  I never knew they made one for food.

musac15

Mama-Bear said:

We do a lot of positive reinforcement when she goes potty outside and no negative for accidents inside.  We're not opposed to crates specifically, but we wouldn't have her in a crate long term (just until housebroken and she stopped chewing on EVERYTHING), we don't want to spend $130 on a crate to use for 2m (we're estimating that she'll be another 5"-6" taller and be around 60-70 pounds when she's full grown).  

I would search cragslist. You can find crates in good shape for under $50. Also, labor day is coming up - hit up some garage sales. We have two XXL crates, and we paid $10 for one and $20 for the other. They're both in good shape. Just takes some looking.

Again, I was just afraid that if the boys got near her with how starving she was acting that she would snap at them (and I also wanted to be the one she bit if there was aggression other than learn there's a problem from them getting bitten).  I do go up and pet her often while she eats, she doesn't seem to really even notice.  

Ok, so you now know she doesn't have any food aggression. Don't keep taking her food away randomly...this will teach her that her food is something to protect, because sometimes it gets taken away. 

So do you not think she'll be harder to housebreak because of being 6m?  

Nope, I don't think it should be any harder to get her housebroke. I think she needs more consistency and more praise when she is successful. 

I'll have to check out the Kong toy.  We have the original and will sometimes fill it with PB.  We also have soft Kong toy (I love that you can replace just the squeaker).  I never knew they made one for food.

They make so many different types of kongs that you can stuff with food. If you need it to last longer, consider freezing. You can also use pumpkin filling, yogurt, dog treats, food, peanut butter...there are tons of recipes available online for kongs. Just mix stuff together in there, freeze it, and you can a few hours of entertainment for your pooch. I keep several in the freezer so I can take them out at will when needed. 

Mama-Bear

Thanks for the tips, and we'll definitely stop taking her food bowl away.  Again, we've probably done it a total of 5 times in the 2.5 weeks we've had her.  I'm really surprised at how good of a pup and gentle she is (she doesn't know she's so big to knock them down and her mouthing doesn't hurt but I obviously want to break that habit).  Thanks for the idea of freezing the kong, definitely wouldn't have thought of that, but that's an excellent idea.  Like I said, it breaks my heart to lock her in our laundry room, we leave the light on for her if we're not going to be gone too long or take her with us if we're not going inside anywhere (to the park, to pick DS1 up from school).  We're definitely going to get her a few more toys this weekend, we spent our previous doggie budget and I'm sure what we set aside for dog toys/treats this week will be gone in no time. 

I try to catch her when she goes potty outside watch from the back door, if I go out she gets distracted and then just wants to play, so I can rush out when she's finished to reward her, I know I don't catch every success. 

musac15

Our neighbors probably thought we were crazy, but I would be outside dancing around and shouting "good girl" in the highest happiest voice I could muster. There was a lot of hand clapping and hot dog treats given. 

Our adult dog we rescued last year wasn't entirely potty trained when we got him, and we still have issues from time to time. I've found over the last couple months the same thing is working for him that works for a puppy - supervision while inside, and a ridiculous amount of praise outside. 

Good luck! Don't give up! 

LuckyAngel07

Mama-Bear said:

So do you not think she'll be harder to housebreak because of being 6m?  

Nope. @Caz1221 has 2 pugs. She got one of them when he was, I want to say, 3 or 4 years old? She went about housebreaking him just like you would a puppy, and it worked out just fine. Old dogs can definitely learn new tricks.

Mama-Bear

Thanks!

aggiebug

LuckyAngel07 said:

Mama-Bear said:

So do you not think she'll be harder to housebreak because of being 6m?  

Nope. @Caz1221 has 2 pugs. She got one of them when he was, I want to say, 3 or 4 years old? She went about housebreaking him just like you would a puppy, and it worked out just fine. Old dogs can definitely learn new tricks.

yes indeed! I got my dog when was 4 with zero training. He was easily potty trained, know how to heel, sit, stay, shake, play dead and at 9 has learned to roll over. It's never to late!

spalko

You need to make sure that she doesn't have some sort of bladder infection or urinary tract infection. Female puppies that develop vaginitis are really hard to housebreak because their vaginal tract becomes irritated so when they do go potty it burns. Since it hurts to potty they won't completely eliminate their bladder which can cause further infections/problems. Does she lick her vaginal area a lot? It might not be a bad idea to have her checked just to make sure that she doesn't have any medical issues that could be causing the potty problems.

chrisnjay05212010

She can def learn, just have to keep being consistent with it. You have only had her 2.5 weeks so its going to take some time for her to really get it all.

you mentioned that she gets distracted when you go outside.  are you using a phrase with her? Like go potty, or go make? I would repeat go potty over and over and over again while we were outside so he understood it was time to go and outside. Once he went he was praised and rewarded and then we could play if he wanted. 

Mama-Bear

spalko said:

You need to make sure that she doesn't have some sort of bladder infection or urinary tract infection. Female puppies that develop vaginitis are really hard to housebreak because their vaginal tract becomes irritated so when they do go potty it burns. Since it hurts to potty they won't completely eliminate their bladder which can cause further infections/problems. Does she lick her vaginal area a lot? It might not be a bad idea to have her checked just to make sure that she doesn't have any medical issues that could be causing the potty problems.

She does lick constantly and did have a discharge.  I thought possibly she was in heat (we'd planned to have her spayed at the end of this month) but the vet said she wasn't, did the spay, and sent home a script.  It does seem as if the licking has gotten better.  She has a few days left of it (horrible I know, but I forgot to give her 3 doses, so 1.5 days, hoping that doesn't negate what she's already received).  She'll be back at the vet in a week or so for a distemper booster and again in a month for a bordetella booster. 

Lucky, thanks for the suggestion for the Kong Wobbler, I picked one up today and she seems to enjoy it.  She learned how it works after me hitting it with her paw just once.  Her meals take much longer now.

mseale

Another suggestion on the potty training is to not leave water sitting around.  Put the water bowl down every few hours and let her drink, then pick it back up.  Then SET THE TIMER for 30 minutes.  Take the dog outside and praise her heavily for doing her business.  Do that for 2 weeks and you should see little to no accidents, and then they know where to go when they need to potty.  That is how I potty train any foster dog of all ages that comes into my house.  Works like a charm.

I also agree w/ PP and say "potty", or whatever word you like, while they are doing their business.  That way when the weather is gross, or you are in a hurry you can say "potty" and they will know what you want them to do.

As for scarfing down the food.  I've seen many dogs do that.  Typically they are REALLY excited that it is food time.  If I just set the bowl in front of them they scarf.  However, I make my dogs sit, wait for them to calm down, set the food bowl down, wait for them to calm down again, and then release them to eat.  Typically they will slow down to a normal eating pace within a few weeks.

Best of luck with your new pup!

bekahdrum

I completely agree that potty training should not be any harder at 6mo.  We just had a foster about that age that came in as a stray and he had it down for the most part within a week or so.  To repeat PP's consistency is key!