Money Matters
KatieCutie05
member
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Not sure how to handle these student loans anymore...
My husband and I have been on the Dave Ramsey plan for 8 months now. When we started we were barely breaking even following his 10k paycut he has gotten after he got laid off a few months prior. So in order to gain us some momentum he sold the truck he loved because the payment and gas cost was just too much for us now that he was making less. Since then we paid off our credit cards and had to cash flow some medical bills.
Now we have 131k in Non-Mortgage debt (actually our mortgage debt is 127k) I have 110k in student loans.... and we owe a total of 21k between our 2 cars. My student loans are mostly in the form of parent plus loans in my parents name that i agreed to repay. (22k in my name and the rest in theirs)
Our snowball looks like this: (balance / monthly payment)
My Car: 9,050 / 360
My Sallie Mae: 4,438 / 63
DH car: 11,980 / 320
My Direct Loan: 17,310 / 126
Mom S. Mae: 23,851 / 169
Dad S. Mae: 26,794 / 190 (currently deferred but need to take it off)
Mom D. Loan: 37,863 / 248
I make 47k working full time and DH makes 32k.... DH also picked up a part time job 6 months ago and he's been averaging 7-800 per month because he works 20hours a week average...
On a good month, we'll have 650 left to pay toward debt from our full time jobs.
On this current pace - it would take us 4.5 years to pay off everything but the house... but thats without kids, if he continues to work 60 hours a week and we don't get raises - all of which are highly unlikely.
We both want to have kids (we put a pause on TTC) , but right now we cant' afford daycare until my car is paid off. But once the kid is born he can't be working 60 hours a week. But unless he got a good raise, we'd be back to barely breaking even.
Also my husband has been great about handling these student loans with me... but we had a fight last night because I had told him we could buy a small boat for 8k once we're debt free in just our name and down to just my parents loans... which on this current pace would be in 2 years he could buy it... but again thats without kids and I really don't want to wait that long... and i thought he didn't either but now i'm pretty sure he'd rather have a boat. My student loans are really causing stress in my marriage... and to be entirely honest - i don't know how he doesn't hate me for it.... but both of us can tell that this could easily cause him to grow to resent me. (which is why i agreed to the 8k boat - to hold him over until we can afford to buy his truck back and the boat he really wants - which would be atleast 8 years. )
I know things will change over the years but I still really want a baby.... is it entirely irresponsible to be TTC? How long do i have to wait- i can wait until we pay off my car in 5-6 months but i can't do 2 years - especially not just so he can get his boat! He was the one who was in more of a rush to TTC because he's almost 30 and I dont really think he'd put a boat before a kid but if he doesn't get something... he's gonna end up resenting me for it. And honestly he should.... this IS all my fault... My dumb mistakes at 18 are ruining my husbands life and my family. i don't know what to do anymore. I love my job, i'm using my degree, but with only 3 years experience in my field- the salary rate for my field just doesn't support 110k in student loans. I thought about freelancing or an etsy shop but i know no one whod be interested and i'm horrible at freelancing... i decided a long time ago that i had zero desire to freelance or be my own boss at all. Its just not who i am. I'm on Care.com trying to find babysitting jobs but nothing. I don't want either of us to have to work 2 jobs... but maybe thats the punishment that i put on my family. I'm lost.
Now we have 131k in Non-Mortgage debt (actually our mortgage debt is 127k) I have 110k in student loans.... and we owe a total of 21k between our 2 cars. My student loans are mostly in the form of parent plus loans in my parents name that i agreed to repay. (22k in my name and the rest in theirs)
Our snowball looks like this: (balance / monthly payment)
My Car: 9,050 / 360
My Sallie Mae: 4,438 / 63
DH car: 11,980 / 320
My Direct Loan: 17,310 / 126
Mom S. Mae: 23,851 / 169
Dad S. Mae: 26,794 / 190 (currently deferred but need to take it off)
Mom D. Loan: 37,863 / 248
I make 47k working full time and DH makes 32k.... DH also picked up a part time job 6 months ago and he's been averaging 7-800 per month because he works 20hours a week average...
On a good month, we'll have 650 left to pay toward debt from our full time jobs.
On this current pace - it would take us 4.5 years to pay off everything but the house... but thats without kids, if he continues to work 60 hours a week and we don't get raises - all of which are highly unlikely.
We both want to have kids (we put a pause on TTC) , but right now we cant' afford daycare until my car is paid off. But once the kid is born he can't be working 60 hours a week. But unless he got a good raise, we'd be back to barely breaking even.
Also my husband has been great about handling these student loans with me... but we had a fight last night because I had told him we could buy a small boat for 8k once we're debt free in just our name and down to just my parents loans... which on this current pace would be in 2 years he could buy it... but again thats without kids and I really don't want to wait that long... and i thought he didn't either but now i'm pretty sure he'd rather have a boat. My student loans are really causing stress in my marriage... and to be entirely honest - i don't know how he doesn't hate me for it.... but both of us can tell that this could easily cause him to grow to resent me. (which is why i agreed to the 8k boat - to hold him over until we can afford to buy his truck back and the boat he really wants - which would be atleast 8 years. )
I know things will change over the years but I still really want a baby.... is it entirely irresponsible to be TTC? How long do i have to wait- i can wait until we pay off my car in 5-6 months but i can't do 2 years - especially not just so he can get his boat! He was the one who was in more of a rush to TTC because he's almost 30 and I dont really think he'd put a boat before a kid but if he doesn't get something... he's gonna end up resenting me for it. And honestly he should.... this IS all my fault... My dumb mistakes at 18 are ruining my husbands life and my family. i don't know what to do anymore. I love my job, i'm using my degree, but with only 3 years experience in my field- the salary rate for my field just doesn't support 110k in student loans. I thought about freelancing or an etsy shop but i know no one whod be interested and i'm horrible at freelancing... i decided a long time ago that i had zero desire to freelance or be my own boss at all. Its just not who i am. I'm on Care.com trying to find babysitting jobs but nothing. I don't want either of us to have to work 2 jobs... but maybe thats the punishment that i put on my family. I'm lost.
Re: Not sure how to handle these student loans anymore...
I know you mentioned that you are following Dave's plan- which is great, and I really believe in it. But I know he always talks about delivering pizza- if you aren't getting anywhere on Care.com or other places like that, could you be a delivery person one or two nights a week? Or is there another way to use your degree maybe working a weekend job?
I think the best advice I can give right now is to say post your budget, and let us take a look. Other than that, you will have a long road getting the student loans paid off. Hopefully you both will get some good raises in the next couple of years that will help with this.
And I also agree with Hoffse on the boat. Dave would say your DH may be acting like a child on this one -I want it, I want it- but maybe in 2 years he will have bigger priorities. I can't imagine having time to take LO out on a boat- and if we did the trip would probably be an hour max, because I also can't see LO falling asleep and taking a nap there.
Regarding TTC, if you're both ready except for the money part, I'd start once you have a good e-fund, baby fund for startup expenses and can afford a "baby budget" while still making your minimum debt payments. We just did our baby budget even though we're not TTC yet; it felt good to get the math down! I hate to throw around the phrase "you'll make it work," but I think YOU specifically will based on what you've posted here before and how responsible you are. I think it's worth pausing the snowball for.
Regarding the boat-I don't think it's the worst thing for your H to get one, but I wouldn't pause TTC for it. Then again, my H and I both spend a fair bit on hobbies. I know that's not how all couples tend to operate. Do you guys do personal fun money/slush money in your budget? Could he save his for a boat? Get a cheaper boat? If he just wants it for, say, fishing on a local pond, could a simple row boat fill the need? Could you put $50/month into a "boat fund?" H and I do stuff like this to save for the electronics he loves, and the travel I love. Sure, we could cut both out to save more, but we've found it's worth it to us.
After reading this I want to be clear that I completely agree, no debt for the boat. I'm just not opposed to saving up for it. Still, it's true that DR would likely not approve at all, and TTC is a way higher priority!
We both agree we are never borrowing money ever again and we plan to pay cash for everything. The boat would be bought in cash. Dave Ramsey would probably tell my husband he's being childish to get it before every thing is paid off. But then again I've heard him tell couples with a lot of debt that its okay to treat yourself within reason for achieving milestones in order to keep you on track.... But an 8k boat is probably not what he had in mind. Lol.
The PP who mentioned the cost of boat insurance is spot on. Plus, there's the storage, maintenance, gas, trailer, licensing, registration, etc. There's no way buying a boat is the smart financial step to take (especially while your parents' names are linked up in your SLs). If I were a parent, I would be furious if my child and his/her spouse bought a boat and still had SLs to pay off.
Children are different. Yes, as PPs mentioned, they can cost a lot if you go crazy in "needing" all the baby crap out there. But, kids are a life-long joy. A boat will just be a materialistic burden. While raises kids is tough and pricey at times, the couple doing it receives an immense benefit.
You should post your full budget here - maybe we can help you find other ways to cut costs. Just don't buy the boat...it seems like a major recipe for stress, resentment and disaster.
I have to agree with everyone else about the cost of a boat. My fiance owns a boat outright, bought it for $40K and worked a ton of overtime, sold his GTO (he's a motorhead), and lived at home to pay it off in 2 years. MM wise he could have used the money better but he's been on a boat since he was a few weeks old, so it's "in his blood," and he's had his boating license since middle school. He just paid $2500 to repair it, and that doesn't include other costs like insurance ($100 a month), gas (about $200 a weekend), storage ($80/ month w/ a family discount), oil changes, other repairs, cleaning supplies, etc. When his small truck finally gave up he had to buy a bigger truck which meant a car loan, higher insurance, and more gas (this was before we bought our house and got engaged). And most people have a boat payment too.
I will say that taking an infant on the boat really isn't as bad as it seems, we see people out ALL the time with infants and many people we know have raised their kids on boats since they were infants. Our good friends just bought their 8 year old daughter her first run about boat this winter. They managed, but it also depends how devoted you are to boating. Many of these people grew up on boats and wanted the same for their kids. The choice is entirely up to you.
Boats aren't cheap, and they break A LOT, so I would really consider the costs before getting one especially with TTC.
First of all, big creepy internet hugs to you. Your situation I can relate to all too much. I'm the one with the huge student loan debt, we are now holding off on TTC while getting debt free, and my H is the spender and feels deprived because of my debt.
But here's what I've got as a fellow DR follower.
1. Don't kick yourself too much for the debt. You disclosed this to your H before he married you, and he accepted you knowing all of this.
2. If you listen to DR's radio show, he actually says not to hold off starting a family while paying off debt. It may take you longer to get out of debt, but kids really are only as expensive as you make them. We are putting it off because we know in 2 years we will be debt free. I can handle delaying the children thing for 2 more years, knowing we will not have any other financial burdens after that.
He also says that when you get pregnant to stop snowballing. This is considered an "emergency" and you take that snowball and put it into a savings account for 9 months. Then when mom and baby are home and healthy, you pay off all of the medical bills and put any remaining amount toward the debt in one lump sum.
So no, you don't necessarily have to hold off on having children for 5 years while getting debt free.
3. Remember "Gazelle Intense." Get it. Sell the cars and buy ones for cash (we're selling my SUV I absolutely love and want to buy again someday, but the $17k in debt and $350/month payment along with higher gas cost isn't worth being in debt another year. So I will drive a car that we pay cash for with $5k or less).
Work an extra job (I sell Tastefully Simple on the side) to bring in some extra cash to put toward debt. You could waitress at night or on weekends, take extra shifts, sign up with a direct selling business, or use your talents to make it profitable (tutoring, piano lessons, sell crafts on Etsy, photography, etc).
The only way to get out of it faster is to throw more money at it.
4. Factor an amount of entertainment or fun money into your budget. This will help both you and your H from going crazy. We factor a joint amount of $75/month toward things like movies, bowling, baseball games, hockey, etc. You have to factor in something to keep you from going insane. Although saving up and buying a $8k boat should be saved for after you're debt free. Remember that the more you spend while going through the program, the longer it takes to get debt free.
5. Are you both no longer contributing to retirement? I know it's controversial on this board, but we stopped all but 1 of our contributions and when I plugged it into the debt calculator it took us from 3 years to 2 years of getting debt free.
6. Do you receive a tax return every year? If so, then change your witholdings to get more in your paychecks to put toward debt.
Feel free to post your budget and have everyone take a look at it.
Also, has your husband gone through FPU with you? My H was exactly like this a year ago when I started paying extra toward our debts and putting aside money in savings for a rainy day. He kept saying that I was depriving him and he "deserved" these things because he works 50-70 hrs/week. He was honestly a child, and DR would've called him that. It took him finally listening to DR's TMM book before he got on board and realized how much he was resisting me.
TTC since 1/13 DX:PCOS 5/13 (long, anovulatory cycles)
Clomid 50mg 9/13 = BFP! EDD 6/7/14 M/C 5w6d Found 11/4/13
1/14 PCOS / Gluten Free Diet to hopefully regulate my system.
Chemical Pregnancy 03/14
Surprise BFP 6/14, Beta #1: 126 Beta #2: 340 Stick baby, stick! EDD 2/17/15
Riley Elaine born 2/16/15
TTC 2.0 6/15
Chemical Pregnancy 9/15
Chemical Pregnancy 6/16
BFP 9/16 EDD 6/3/17
Beta #1: 145 Beta #2: 376 Beta #3: 2,225 Beta #4: 4,548
www.5yearstonever.blogspot.com
@brij2006: Thanks yea we actually spend the last month trying to find beater cars to drive but it just was going to save us 5 months tops out of a 4 1/2 year plan. and DH looked up the safety rating on the old truck he was going to get and now i won't let him put himself in it let alone a kid in it because its literally the worst ever. If this was just for a year or two - i'd do it. but for 4-5 years its a different story. We finally decided that we have a student loan problem - not a car problem so to just keep them because we feel confident they'll last for 5 years - which is more then i can say for a beater.
DH and I both read TMMO and went through FPU together.... the whole "i deserve this" is one thing DH disagrees with Dave Ramsey about. He says, its physically impossible to work this hard with nothing to show for it without ever getting a break...if so he'd just quit the second job.
Our budget really doesn't have much wiggle room but i'll post it here anyway. This is a rough version and remember it changes every month so this is pretty much "best case scenario"
Income: 4,750
Savings: 50 (for 600 propane tank fill)
Giving: 100 (we're christians and this is our pathetic excuse for a tithe)
Mortgage: 845
Electric: 120 (varies)
TV: 84
Internet: 42
Cell phones: 103 (still on our parents plan)
groceries: 360
alcohol: 15
Gas: 510
Car insurance: 94
His Car payment: 320
My Car payment: 360
Haircuts: 20
Vitamins: 10
Redbox: 3
Joint Spending: 40
His Spending: 100+ (he gets more for dinners/lunches between jobs)
My Spending: 40
Banfield Plan: 55 (for both dogs - in contract until december then i think we're cancelling)
Dog Meds: 25
Dog Food: 37
My Sallie Mae: 63
My Direct Loan: 126
Mom S. Mae: 169
Dad S. Mae: 190
Mom D. Loan: 248
Total: 4129
Remaining used for additional debt payment: 621
I'm going to re-post your budget and give some recommendations.
Savings: 50 (for 600 propane tank fill) Continue this.
Giving: 100 (we're christians and this is our pathetic excuse for a tithe) This is all we give too. :-( But continue it.
Mortgage: 845
Electric: 120 (varies)
TV: 84 Cancel service to save. Even if you're mid-contract. It may cost you to break the contract, but will likely still be cheaper than paying for 2 more months of service.
Internet: 42
Cell phones: 103 (still on our parents plan) You could get rid of smartphones to save even more $$.
groceries: 360
alcohol: 15
Gas: 510
Car insurance: 94 Shop around with a local Independent Insurance Agent (Google one), and see if you can get this cheaper.
His Car payment: 320 I would seriously consider getting rid of both of these. It will save you on having full coverage car insurance, extra gas expense, and the payments. Even if you only save $100 between gas and insurance, it will still give you almost $800/month to apply toward the debt.
My Car payment: 360
Haircuts: 20
Vitamins: 10
Redbox: 3
Joint Spending: 40 I would increase this to $100 and cut out both of your individual spending cash. Then it will be agree'd upon for expenditures.
His Spending: 100+ (he gets more for dinners/lunches between jobs) Factor in more for groceries instead and have him start packing a lunch.
My Spending: 40
Banfield Plan: 55 (for both dogs - in contract until december then i think we're cancelling) Definitely cancel this. Call and see how much it would cost to cancel before the contract is up. If it's $100, then that's only 2 months worth of payments.
Dog Meds: 25 I would shop around for the cheapest option on this and food. This seems like a lot.
Dog Food: 37
My Sallie Mae: 63
My Direct Loan: 126
Mom S. Mae: 169
Dad S. Mae: 190
Mom D. Loan: 248
Total: 4129
It's hard to really focus on the budget and cut a lot of things out, but honestly it can be a blessing in disguise for both of you. We found that once our satelite was cancelled, we spent a lot more time getting house projects finished and I was wanting to book more Tastefully Simple parties so I wasn't bored at night. My H has also been working more overtime and spends so much more time caring for our yard and the things we own. It has made a huge difference going "back to the basics."
Don't underestimate running the numbers on how much an extra $500/month from taking on a side job and another $800/month from selling the cars would do to your timeline. When we originally put our budget together, it was going to take us 3 years. That was way too long for us to live like this. Now that we've gotten a little more used to it, we aren't sure if we want all of those "luxuries" back. Doing this plan is so much more than just getting rid of debt. It's refocusing on the things that truly matter in life and what's worth it.
TTC since 1/13 DX:PCOS 5/13 (long, anovulatory cycles)
Clomid 50mg 9/13 = BFP! EDD 6/7/14 M/C 5w6d Found 11/4/13
1/14 PCOS / Gluten Free Diet to hopefully regulate my system.
Chemical Pregnancy 03/14
Surprise BFP 6/14, Beta #1: 126 Beta #2: 340 Stick baby, stick! EDD 2/17/15
Riley Elaine born 2/16/15
TTC 2.0 6/15
Chemical Pregnancy 9/15
Chemical Pregnancy 6/16
BFP 9/16 EDD 6/3/17
Beta #1: 145 Beta #2: 376 Beta #3: 2,225 Beta #4: 4,548
www.5yearstonever.blogspot.com
Cell phones, groceries, and car payments would be something I would be seriously examining. I'm assuming you both have smart phones- is that a luxury you can cut? Go to basic phones or even pay as you go- again, every little bit adds up quickly. Groceries seem expensive. I spend $300 on 3 of us, and LO is on formula which since I buy it most of the time at the grocery store, it is often taken out of the grocery budget. Shop the sale cycles, and consider going meatless one meal of the week to save (think spaghetti once a week- SUPER cheap meal!) Again, this isn't sustainable forever, but if all these little things add up to cutting a year or two off your payoff- it may be sustainable that long. Car payments are a huge chunk of your budget. I seriously would sell them and buy something cash. Once you have everything paid off, that may be the first thing you save up to upgrade. If you get pregnant during this time period- that may be something you upgrade as soon as you and LO are home safe, sound and happy from the hospital. Just because it is a cheap car, doesn't have to mean it is unsafe. Cars have come a long way, and even a clunker of today is a lot safer than what a lot of us grew up driving around in with our parents.
Cutting car payments would be $680, cutting meat one day a week may save $5 a week, so that's $700. Cutting cell phone may save another $20-40. Cutting cable is another $80. So just with a couple things you have added over $800 to your debt snowball every month. Getting a small second job for you could add $200-400 or whatever, and now you are up to $1000-1200 additional every month to paying off your debt.
If you were paying $621 to debt every month, you have now just added possibly anotehr $1200. Rather than this taking you 8 years or whatever you had originally estimated, now maybe it only takes 2-4. That is gazelle intensity that Dave is always talking about. It could be a tight 2 years, but it would be worth it in my opinion. Run those numbers through a debt payoff calculator, and see what it actually comes out. (Oh, and I forgot about the dog contract thing- that's like another $50 right!)
Good luck!!!!! I know student loans suck, but you will make it through this.
Another idea is to cut the cable and watch shows online....many air 1-2 days later. Also, I'm not up on cell technology, but I have heard that many smart phones are hot spots - so you could conceivable run your Internet off those and cut the Internet bill altogether. If someone can comment on this who knows more about it (I may be incorrect) please do so.
If you or your spouse were/are military or if either of your fathers or mothers served, you are eligible to be a member of USAA. It's a bank and insurance company for military (any branch) and they families. Their rates are usually unbeatable and they do home, renters, car, life, etc.
Look at your grocery store experience - are you buying name brands? Buy generic. Are you buying lots of sodas, junk foods, pre-cut, or preprepared meals? buy fresh (it's actually cheaper). Not sure if you're in a Super Target area that has a grocery store, but you can get a Target Red Card debit card and get cash back (5%) on all your Target purchases including foods. Also, they have this program called Cartwheel and it's free to join with your FaceBook. It runs specials anywhere from 5% - 30% off various items. So far this year with my Red Card and my Cartwheel, I have saved about $500.
Are you able to consolidate the SLs and get a lower rate?
Yea the budget, I cant really find anywhere else to cut except trying to get DH to actually stick to his budget! - he blew his 100 budget again this month and hit.... drumroll please... 160! Holy Cow! Me thinks we need to talk cus i might just end him. Oh and thats not including the 30 dollars he spent on ammo this month unplanned. *bang head here*
And thats with packing a lunch most days! I know some days he was forced to go out with coworkers - he drives back and forth between customer sites for work so lunch for him usually just means a sandwich which he can only eat if he's alone... and he does need to get more food before going to his second job 3 days a week but 160! no. just no. Lets see... 25 dollars on ice cream! oy. Multiple 10 dollar meals... the man just has no sense of money ending.
I'm trying to find a common ground between being understanding of how hard he's working and him spending whatever he pleases on food out!
Nothing works with this man becuase hes on the road all the time so its not the same as me just going out for lunch once... he can stop anywhere he wants, whenever he wants. i managed to limit his breakfast trips out by getting him breakfast bars but if its not that its something else. he thinks about the larger dollar amounts but not all the little 4 dollar charges every other day... plus food is his weakness.
The other thing I thought of was a garage sale to help get things rolling. I just had to clean out the house to make room for all the toys and get rid of all the breakables, and on just a garage sale of small stuff like that we made over $400. And seriously, it's nothing I miss. If there is 'stuff' around that may be a one time option. Although, really not going to help unless DH gets on board.
Does he sit down and set up the budget with you, and do you reconcile the budget with him at the end of the month? This was an eye opener for my H. He didn't realize those little $6-10 lunches/snacks out added up so quickly.
I would suggest reconciling this months budget with him. Sit down and let him know exactly what was spent in each category and what was budgeted for it.
Then put May's budget together so he has a say in how much is put in each category and what he can truly spend that month. In the middle of the month (we do around the 15th), sit down and see where you're at with spending in each category. Let him know if he's already blown through his $100 budget and can no longer spend money on eating out this month. It may also help to have his spending money be in cash instead of a debit card. Even if he's given the money on Sunday of each week and he has to stick within that amount for the week. I have to do this with groceries otherwise I will go over each and every time. It's a mental thing when you're spending cash. Not as much when using a debit card.
TTC since 1/13 DX:PCOS 5/13 (long, anovulatory cycles)
Clomid 50mg 9/13 = BFP! EDD 6/7/14 M/C 5w6d Found 11/4/13
1/14 PCOS / Gluten Free Diet to hopefully regulate my system.
Chemical Pregnancy 03/14
Surprise BFP 6/14, Beta #1: 126 Beta #2: 340 Stick baby, stick! EDD 2/17/15
Riley Elaine born 2/16/15
TTC 2.0 6/15
Chemical Pregnancy 9/15
Chemical Pregnancy 6/16
BFP 9/16 EDD 6/3/17
Beta #1: 145 Beta #2: 376 Beta #3: 2,225 Beta #4: 4,548
www.5yearstonever.blogspot.com
OP- have you gone to counseling at all? Do you have a pastor or somebody you can talk to? With or without DH? Having him hear an outside opinion from somebody he respects may help you both get on the same page.
Again, I'm sorry, this really sucks. It sounds like you really are trying to get your mess cleaned up, and he seems to be working against you. Even that $60 matters!
I agree with this. Opening a separate account will lead to resentment and him feeling like a child rather than an equal partner.
Also, I highly recommend a pastor or counselor to get on the same page. We took a marriage class through our church that gave us some good insight to get on the same page.
TTC since 1/13 DX:PCOS 5/13 (long, anovulatory cycles)
Clomid 50mg 9/13 = BFP! EDD 6/7/14 M/C 5w6d Found 11/4/13
1/14 PCOS / Gluten Free Diet to hopefully regulate my system.
Chemical Pregnancy 03/14
Surprise BFP 6/14, Beta #1: 126 Beta #2: 340 Stick baby, stick! EDD 2/17/15
Riley Elaine born 2/16/15
TTC 2.0 6/15
Chemical Pregnancy 9/15
Chemical Pregnancy 6/16
BFP 9/16 EDD 6/3/17
Beta #1: 145 Beta #2: 376 Beta #3: 2,225 Beta #4: 4,548
www.5yearstonever.blogspot.com