Difficult money discussions

soleilmonamour

I hate the topic of money, who doesn't? It's even worse when the person you are strongly considering marrying is rich. Even though you love them, you don't want them to think thats what you really care about - but it just matters. on top of that, he is divorced from a woman who was more materialistic than anyone I know or ever heard of, and had a spending money addiction (think 40k a day...).

So it was never talked about until now. His divorce had left him in a not so great situation financially, and I really wanted to avoid this topic. But I brought it up a few days ago, and I was quite upset with what I heard. You see, my major concern here were children. He already has two kids whom have been given vast amounts of money and resources. I asked him if our children could have the same, and he said it may not be possible. He has put 5million in a trust for each of his kids, plus the best schools and money for college and a 10 million dollar home in a trust for them. He said they can have the schools and vacations, but the rest may not be possible. I told him if he thinks that it may be a problem that when he's gone (we have a huge age gap, he also risks passing while our kids are still young like in their 20s - but who knows. He is in his 50s now), his other kids will be given significantly less. He said "Maybe, but I can't do anything about it." And I had gotten really upset, because I was already making so many sacrifices and adjustments due to our age gap, his baggage, and accepting the facts that he has kids and a huge history with an ex. But I feel this is unfair to do to my unborn kids.

While I am young, and have none of that. This isn't all about the money, its really the fact that everything between us seems unequal, and even with our unborn children. I also don't want to raise kids that feel like they weren't daddy's favorites because their half siblings were so wealthy while they were not. I think that is an unfair situation to put the kids in. Unfortunately and fortunately, he is the most amazing guy I've ever met, he is always there to address me concerns, our connection and passion is phenomenal, and there is a lot of understanding. But I don't think he gets how much this may affect his kids, and me as well. 

I told him I'm not asking for much, I'm not crazy about things. I'd like a nice house with some nice vacations, but I'm not material obsessed. I want to be with my family. But the kids...would be much too unequal.

He asked if this meant that we would not have children, and I said "I don't know, it's something to think about."

(and me not having kids means I could not marry him)

Please tell me how this sounds to you...

CuriousKiddosMama

Ok, assuming this isn't MUD, let me take a crack at answering it....
First, does he want more kids? This sounds like a deal breaker for you, but maybe he isn't worried about providing the same because he doesn't want more kids.
Second, can the trusts be edited in case of future children? I have no idea about this, but it may be worth discussing.
Third, one thing you may need to remember is that anything parents leave to a child is a blessing. And just because something is given to one child doesn't mean you love the others any less. Maybe the trust was part of the divorce settlement with the ex. If business or whatever has slowed down or he is thinking more about retirement, he may want to focus more on that. I don't know that there needs to be any explaining in the future. If the kids are 20+ years apart, it's not like they will ever be very close or anything like that.
Good luck. But if does sound like you need to have an open and honest conversation with this guy about money.

soleilmonamour

Thank you very much for your response. I agree we do need to discuss this more, and I don't know if I'll get what I want out of it. Also, the kids will be 11-15 years apart. He does want children, he said he always wanted more than two but his ex-wife was abusive to him and she was also unable to bear more children, so he made the trust decisions around then thinking he can not have more kids. The ex wife actually tried to take the kids money, which is why I think he gave them so much (so it wouldn't end up in her hands to just spend), but I'm not sure.

He definitely wants more kids, he was upset when I told him that I need to think about the inequality of the children to consider having kids with him. I'm also worried if he passes away of illness, and we aren't left with much because he has given it all to them. I will ask him more questions, but this seems to bring up a lot of tension between us.

CuriousKiddosMama

Just talk to him about it, and maybe approach it through a different angle. I'm not concerned about the inequalities so much, but I am concerned about us being in the same page with money because if we aren't we have a high risk of divorce and I don't want that for us. Maybe through a conversation about money in general and what he wants to do/ why he doesn't think he can do the same for future kids, you may get all your answers.
Totally guessing here, but if he gave $ to his kids to keep it from the ex, if he changed their trusts at all, she may get some of it???? I really don't know much about divorce laws so hopefully somebody else may have a better idea on that, but he may have a very legitimate reason he gave them so much at the time.
Also if he is successful- which obviously he is- he may not want to promise you something he isn't sure he can provide, but may be able to do the same in the future.

jjbmstinco

To me it sounds like you are having more questions about the relationship with him then about his money.I agree that you need to have some conversations with him. They are tough conversations, but they are ones that you need before you get married.  I don't know for fact but I would think that the kid's trust fund could be edited like a will.  Maybe I am wrong about that, but it might be something to look into?  

I really hope you can sit down and have a nice conversation about your feelings and work out a plan that you are both happy with. 

vlagrl29

Both people need to be able to talk freely and openly without hesitation about money.  Money can be a HUGE strain in a marriage if not handled correctly.  You can always get a great life insurance policy on him if you are thinking he may pass away while your children are still young.  Maybe he already has a life ins policy?  IDK, my gut feeling is telling me this may not be the right fit for you.  Please don't go into marriage with such hesitation…..divorce really does suck!

Xstatic3333

I agree with PPs, I would find a way to get more comfortable talking about money before you get married.  You still describe your SO as "rich" so I'm assuming he still has significant assets.  Unfortunately, if the trust is not changeable, the money may just not be there for him to create large trusts for your future children.  It may be that he will now be treating his estate more like, say, my parents, and just passing most of his assets to you for him to care for your children with.  I certainly understand how that could feel unfair, but if he has less money now it may be how it has to be.  

If your SO is truly wealthy, does he have a financial adviser or home office manager?  Maybe before you get married you could all sit down together to go over financials.  I would be intimidated to marry into that kind of household before getting a "tour" of how it all works.  It may be that you have nothing to worry about and you will still be generously provided by his nest egg if the worst were to happen.  If not, maybe you could decide to take out life insurance (for both of you!) to ease worries.  

Whatever you do, I'd try not to hate the money topic so much.  I know it's tough and awkward at first, but if you're open and honest about everything it doesn't have to be.  It sounds like broaching this topic now was a good start!

artbyallie

Honestly, an 18-yr-old with $5M in trust is more than likely going to be an absolute fucking terror. I'd love to pay for my future children's school and all, but I honestly wouldn't want to give someone access to that kind of money before they've really learned to handle themselves in the real world.

Assuming you're not just making up these insane numbers, are you saying your kids will get nothing or that, say, their trusts will only be in the 6 digits instead of 7? Because that's a huge difference and if it's the latter you're complaining about, it makes you seem super gold-digger-y and materialistic.

soleilmonamour

I agree with you that children should not have that much, which is why if they had it it would be incentive based and only little dispensed at a time. (they wouldn't see a lot of it until their 40s)

I don't know what numbers the trusts would be in. He knows I want a minimum of 3 kids.

When you're in a relationship with a man much older than you who is divorced with two kids, sometimes your insecurities can get the best of you and you can end up comparing his ex and yourself (including the financial differences). That happens. In no way am I materialistic or a gold digger. Money discussions are difficult for women to bring up because they fear being called the very words you used, which prevent such vital discussions from happening. Money tears families and couples apart. I'm also a future doctor, I'm not really aspiring to marry rich or I wouldn't bust my ass in college, medical school and residency if I were. 

ALSO - he is the one that proposed the idea of marriage. While I've never loved anyone like I love him, and I can totally see myself with him, there's a lot to sacrifice. If I were really a gold digger, I would just be happy that he's a deca millionaire and it'll be mine. But that isn't the problem here, which I thought I made clear.

And the other poster is right, this isn't just about the money, clearly there are other issues (doesn't every relationship have issues?). I don't want to rule him out though. We are pretty good at working things out, and he is insanely attentative to my needs and I his. He always takes my concerns into consideration. This relationship actually works. 

That being said, we did talk this one out too. He told me that while he is getting older, he will do what he needs to do to provide for the family and ensure that I will be okay in case he passes before me. I would like to wait 2 years before having children anyway, so I figure we could put this conversation on hold since its clear he made sure we'd always be okay. 

smerka

If you don't want to be called a gold digger, offer to sign a prenup. If you will become a doctor, you will likely be able to take care of yourself in case of divorce. Worrying about any future kids is something a mother does, not a gold digger. I am in no way wealthy, but I was brought up in a home where talking about money is no big deal. It's just a tool to get what you want out of life. I would suggest talking to a counselor or neutral party before agreeing to marry this man.

SummersetEstates

I think you just need to propose the idea to him that you each come prepared with financial information of your own to the kitchen table on nights in the future. Otherwise, this will ALWAYS be the elephant in the room and you will always be in the dark, feeling insecure, and questioning him.

One night, discuss your debts.

One night discuss your assets including real estate, stock/bonds, etc.

One night discussion the older kids' trust.

One night discuss what you two want to do as a couple moving forward. Life insurance? Saving for your own children so they have college, etc. taken care of?

I would avoid the topic of a pre-nup until you have all the cards on the table. If this guy is as awesome as you make out than he should be okay sharing this info with you. If not, then you have a choice: 1. Stay and be in the dark and potentially hung out to dry. 2. Leave.