Setting up a will

bcarb · July 2015

Hi ladies! So, We are expecting our 1st child in a few weeks and I want to get a will set up in case anything happens to the both of us. My question is, I have no idea what the process is. Do I need to find a lawyer to do this? Thanks!!

simplyelise · July 2015

Dave Ramsey always recommends US. Legal Forms: http://www.uslegalforms.com/dave/?auslf=daveramsey

This will get you state specific forms for will and power of attorney. It doesn't seem to require any lawyers, but I expect you'd need to get them all notarized.

The other thing that can never be mentioned enough is life insurance. Make sure both you and your partner have adequate life insurance policies. Even if someone is staying home with baby, you want enough in coverage that in the worst case scenario, full-time care for baby would be covered by the payout.

jessica490 · July 2015

We used a lawyer to set up ours wills because it was just easier. It cost us $500 and about an hour in his office.

cbee817 · July 2015

We went with a local lawyer as well- he handled our condo sale/home purchase a few years prior and set up wills for my parents. $350 for the both of us- health care proxy was part of it too. He mailed us copies to keep/give to our parents and filed it for us with the city. Easy and painless.

bcarb · July 2015

Thanks! Life insurance is already on the radar and will be using Dave's favorite website for that--I will be increasing mine thru work and getting H more Life insurance than he already has--I know the stress it causes not having life insurance and being put in a position where you need it.

hoffse · July 2015

Well I'm a lawyer, so I can't ever recommend just using a form you download from the internet or buy online. The rules/laws are different for each state as to what you need to make them enforceable. One of the really fun days in law school was when my wills and trusts professor let us read all these cases where LegalZoom got sued for selling forms that weren't legally enforceable (not just wills, but business documents too). It happens all the time. I wish I was joking.

The thing about wills is that the rules are really really specific. Between you and me, a lot of those rules are really dumb and archaic, and they vary wildly from state to state, which is also stupid. But if you don't follow the rules exactly as your state requires, your will can be challenged in probate. Defending a will costs a ton of money - I'm talking tens of thousands of dollars at minimum. Potentially even hundreds of thousands, depending on how entrenched the parties get. My point is, dealing with a shoddy will can cost way more than just doing it right the first time. Of course, you won't have any idea because you will be gone. Your heirs will be the ones to get that nasty surprise.

So my suggestion is to call a local attorney (small shop if you don't expect to have a super large estate) and ask them their rates to do a basic will. Expect it to cost several hundred bucks. It will cost more than downloading something from the internet, but your attorney will have a system in place to make sure that the wills coming out of his/her office are enforceable in your state.

The other advantage of using an attorney is s/he can also do some more interesting things that aren't in those basic forms. For example - when I was a minor my parents' wills set up a pour over trust such that I would get 1/3 of their estate at age 25, 1/3 at age 35 and 1/3 at age 45. They have since changed that, but they set things up that way when I was little because they didn't want me inheriting a lot of money when I was too young to be responsible with it.

H and I will write our own wills, but that's only because I do some estate planning in my practice. If I didn't, I would hire some other lawyer to do it for me.

formerlyGDaisy09 · July 2015

Thanks @hoffse! I assume the same advice goes for advanced directives and assigning medical proxy? (I'm such a terrible public health professional to not have those things in place already). once we close on this house renovation loan (closing date next week) I'm planning to make an appointment with a lawyer to set-up our wills, advanced directives, etc.

hoffse · July 2015

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

Thanks @hoffse! I assume the same advice goes for advanced directives and assigning medical proxy? (I'm such a terrible public health professional to not have those things in place already). once we close on this house renovation loan (closing date next week) I'm planning to make an appointment with a lawyer to set-up our wills, advanced directives, etc.

Yes, absolutely - again, those should cost a few hundred bucks or you might find somebody who will bundle everything for you if your requests are pretty basic.

I would encourage you to ask about setting up a trust (or pour over trust), especially when kids are little. You can always change it when they are older and you know how they behave with money. Just make it clear to your attorney that you want to have the flexibility to change things as your kids age.

It costs more upfront to do this because it requires an extra document - but you often save good money on the back end during the distribution side. Trusts are also where you can do the creative stuff like what my parents set up.

And this is just my personal opinion - but H and I won't have relatives or friends be named as trustees for our kids, even if we name our relatives as guardians. Financial institutions will often serve as trustees for a fee. In my (purely non-legal) opinion, it's worth the fee. They have a lot of experience in handling trusts - including the tax/reporting side of things - and they aren't going to be tempted to do something shady with that money. I don't think our relatives are shady, but it can happen in the best of families, and ultimately the people who get hurt from that behavior are the kids. I view the fees a corporate trustee charges as a form of insurance. Not everybody I work with agrees with me on this issue, by the way. It's just my personal opinion.

Regardless of what you guys decide to do, talk to your lawyer about your options to get the big picture. Your lawyer may recommend different things based on your assets (or anticipated assets).

**Not legal advice.

maple2 · July 2015

It might be worth checking whether you or DH are eligible for legal benefits through work. DH is, so we signed up for the year ($7/month I think) and went to a local lawyer to get our will and other associated documents completed. DH is able to decide whether to enroll or not on a yearly basis, so whenever we know we will be needing legal services (buying a house, writing a will, etc.) we sign up. When we don't anticipate needing any legal services, we don't bother enrolling. It definitely saves us money, and we still get professional help.

KatieCutie05 · July 2015

I'm thinking about doing a last will from us legal forms for 25 bucks right now and then in 3 years when we're out of debt - Doing it right and getting a lawyer and trusts and power of attorney and all that. Because whats really important is that our son isn't handed off to the state.

So eventually we'll pay the thousands of dollars to get a bunch of trusts and everything and do it right but for right now - should we be putting the caretaker as beneficiary instead of putting it just in his name because he's a minor? If we left it just to him then he wouldn't see a dime until he turns 18, correct?

formerlyGDaisy09 · July 2015

maple2 said:

It might be worth checking whether you or DH are eligible for legal benefits through work. DH is, so we signed up for the year ($7/month I think) and went to a local lawyer to get our will and other associated documents completed. DH is able to decide whether to enroll or not on a yearly basis, so whenever we know we will be needing legal services (buying a house, writing a will, etc.) we sign up. When we don't anticipate needing any legal services, we don't bother enrolling. It definitely saves us money, and we still get professional help.

This is a good point, actually I'm fairly certain the HR (edit: I mean my HR department) website has a link for finding assistance setting up at least the medical documents (advanced directive, living wills, establishing a proxy, etc.). definiteltly also good to make sure those documents get attached to your eMR so in the event of an emergency your wishes or your spouses wishes can be followed from the get-go. So many medical ethics dilemas would be solved if everyone had advanced directives and assigned proxies.

maple2 · July 2015

KatieCutie05 said:

I'm thinking about doing a last will from us legal forms for 25 bucks right now and then in 3 years when we're out of debt - Doing it right and getting a lawyer and trusts and power of attorney and all that. Because whats really important is that our son isn't handed off to the state.
So eventually we'll pay the thousands of dollars to get a bunch of trusts and everything and do it right but for right now - should we be putting the caretaker as beneficiary instead of putting it just in his name because he's a minor? If we left it just to him then he wouldn't see a dime until he turns 18, correct?

I'm now a lawyer, so I don't know how generalizable my experience is, but we were able to specify when we wanted our children to receive any of the money. We could have given them 5%/year after age 10 or all of it at age 18 or anything we wanted, really. We also chose to specify one person as the caretaker and another as the manager of the trust that our assets would go into. For us that made sense because we have one one family member who is particularly financially savvy but that is not the person we actually wanted our children to live with.

Anyway, my main point is that if you go with a lawyer, you have a lot of flexibility to set things up however you want. I haven't explored the on-line forms, so I don't know how easy it is to explicitly state your wishes, particularly if they are not totally standard.

hoffse · July 2015

KatieCutie05 said:

I'm thinking about doing a last will from us legal forms for 25 bucks right now and then in 3 years when we're out of debt - Doing it right and getting a lawyer and trusts and power of attorney and all that. Because whats really important is that our son isn't handed off to the state.
So eventually we'll pay the thousands of dollars to get a bunch of trusts and everything and do it right but for right now - should we be putting the caretaker as beneficiary instead of putting it just in his name because he's a minor? If we left it just to him then he wouldn't see a dime until he turns 18, correct?

Sorry, I can't really answer that because I think it would edge into legal advice, and I can't give legal advice over the internet. Default rules governing custody, support, etc. also vary by state, and I'm not licensed in your state. But this kind of question is why I wouldn't do an off-the-shelf will.

Getting a will done doesn't cost thousands of dollars. You're looking at a few hundred bucks to have something basic in place that will - at minimum - control who gets custody of your child and how his support should be funded while he is a minor. If you want advanced estate/tax planning, then yes the legal fees can creep into the (tens of) thousands of dollars, but people who do this typically have the wealth to save far more than their legal fees in estate taxes. The last estate I worked on where we did some pretty advanced tax planning was going to be worth tens of millions of dollars.

For the rest of us, a few hundred bucks should cover the most important bits, at least until our finances are such that we might need to reassess.

It's probably melodramatic to think of wills in a similar way as car seats, but not going to lie - that's how I (personally) view them as a lawyer, at least when minor children are involved. Wills can help protect your child if you are no longer there to advocate for them. It's a precaution that you will hopefully not need, but that parents need to think about just in case. I see car seats as serving a similar purpose - precautionary and hopefully you will never ever need it to save your child's life, but you will spend the money anyway because who knows. A few hundred bucks for a legit will is a relatively small amount of money for the peace of mind and protection it can give to children in a worst case scenario. That's my perspective, at any rate. Most Americans don't have wills, so I'm obviously in the minority.

If you can't afford a lawyer, you might want to look into your local Legal Aid Clinic to see if they will offer basic will drafting at a discount. Some LAC's do. PP's advice about checking with your employer is also solid. Some employers offer these services as a discount.

Sorry if this sounds preachy. It's one of my soap-box issues. I really do wish the laws governing this kind of thing were uniform in all 50 states. If they were, then the cheap will kits would be pretty reliable, and I think more people would have wills in place.

simplyelise · July 2015

KatieCutie05 said:

I'm thinking about doing a last will from us legal forms for 25 bucks right now and then in 3 years when we're out of debt - Doing it right and getting a lawyer and trusts and power of attorney and all that. Because whats really important is that our son isn't handed off to the state.
So eventually we'll pay the thousands of dollars to get a bunch of trusts and everything and do it right but for right now - should we be putting the caretaker as beneficiary instead of putting it just in his name because he's a minor? If we left it just to him then he wouldn't see a dime until he turns 18, correct?

The US Legal forms option is what we're planning on doing also, it's done by lawyers, just in more of a factory-one-size-fits-all approach, but still specific to your state and input information.

The forms let you create a testamentary trust and assign a trustee that can be different from the guardian. The trustee will manage the assets until the beneficiary is an adult while the guardian has legal custody. I'm definitely super inexperienced in these things because i haven't had a great need yet to do the research, but it seems to me like a reasonable option for your current situation. Definitely look into it and only proceed if you're comfortable, but it is very economical and all the poking I've done has turned up very positive reviews.

Many of the packages also include the living will/advanced directive and power of attorney.

als1982 · July 2015

I'd definitely make the investment in hiring an attorney. They can help you plan for the immediate as well as keep an eye out for the need for future revisions. This is important stuff. Too important to get it from Google.

vlagrl29 · July 2015

I would highly recommend using a lawyer so it is really legit. You have to have witnesses sign it. which my former MIL didn't do so her will was void. DH and I set up a will together if anything happened to us - for DD. We used the attorney that did my prenup. It's pretty inexpensive. I wanna say $300ish.

vlagrl29 · July 2015

@hoffse - i like your car seat comparison. I totally agree with it. It's a great peace of mind knowing we have legal docs in case something happens and when we have another baby I will be buying all new car seats even though there will be a 5-6 year age gap between kids.

hoffse · July 2015

I'm sorry, but even if the wills that DR sells are drafted by lawyers, laws change. And I hate to say it, but the lawyers writing the wills for will kits probably aren't the folks you want doing your estate planning anyway. The documents LegalZoom sells are drafted by lawyers. And yet, they get sued fairly often because the documents are poorly drafted or outdated by the time they are sold.

My state's LLC law changed in the last 6 months. The result? A bunch of us had to go to seminars to find out about the changes, we had to update or most basic forms that we use as launching points for drafting, we had to look at the clients who were in the process of forming companies to see if we needed to do anything to amend their documents, and then we had to run everything through the gauntlet of tax people to make sure the changes didn't screw up the tax provisions. Turns out, one of the changes did throw some tax sections into question, and then I got the delightful task of researching it and trying to figure out if we really had a problem or not. Clients get billed for none of this.

My state's tax abatement laws changed 2 weeks ago. We are starting the same process all over again. I went to a seminar on the new law last week.

I swear, I'm not saying to use an attorney because I'm an attorney and I want lawyers to get fees for wills. The fees for wills are piddly, and I would rather everything be standardized so that the off-the-shelf will kits were reliable. I'm saying to use an attorney because your attorney will be aware of the current laws in your state, and the cost savings of using a will kit is just not worth the risks of having it go wrong.

simplyelise · July 2015

hoffse said:

I'm sorry, but even if the wills that DR sells are drafted by lawyers, laws change. And I hate to say it, but the lawyers writing the wills for will kits probably aren't the folks you want doing your estate planning anyway. The documents LegalZoom sells are drafted by lawyers. And yet, they get sued fairly often because the documents are poorly drafted or outdated by the time they are sold.

My state's LLC law changed in the last 6 months. The result? A bunch of us had to go to seminars to find out about the changes, we had to update or most basic forms that we use as launching points for drafting, we had to look at the clients who were in the process of forming companies to see if we needed to do anything to amend their documents, and then we had to run everything through the gauntlet of tax people to make sure the changes didn't screw up the tax provisions. Turns out, one of the changes did throw some tax sections into question, and then I got the delightful task of researching it and trying to figure out if we really had a problem or not. Clients get billed for none of this.

My state's tax abatement laws changed 2 weeks ago. We are starting the same process all over again. I went to a seminar on the new law last week.

I swear, I'm not saying to use an attorney because I'm an attorney and I want lawyers to get fees for wills. The fees for wills are piddly, and I would rather everything be standardized so that the off-the-shelf will kits were reliable. I'm saying to use an attorney because your attorney will be aware of the current laws in your state, and the cost savings of using a will kit is just not worth the risks of having it go wrong.

Totally understand this and think it's the best route if you can afford it. But the "piddly" fees for a will aren't sounding very piddly to me. And aren't you going to run into the exact same situation if you spend $1000 to get a will crafted by a lawyer and 8 months later a law changes. You have to spend more money again to get things updated.

My two cents is that in OP's position, if she is planning to keep everything simple, this is a fair option right now. She already plans to do the whole process with an attorney in 3 years, so she is looking for a stop-gap. The same is true in my situation. Our assets are under 30k (not including life insurance) and they are all joint. Our liabilities are under 35k and only include SLs in DHs name. And we aren't willing to put off student loan payments to pay attorney's fees.

But again, OP only use if you feel confident and comfortable. I've got a lot less at stake with no children.

hoffse · July 2015

Sorry, guys I probably need to get off my soap box. Having something - even if it's off the shelf - is better than nothing I guess.

I've just seen some stuff from those programs that is so shoddy it cost way more to fix than it would have cost to do right in the first place. Super basic stuff too.

And it really isn't as expensive as people think it is to get legal help. It's totally the legal field's fault that people hear the word "lawyer" and think $$$$$. You don't hear about those of us who do legal work gratis or who waive fees for clients who have a hard time paying. It's the vast majority of us who will do what we can to help.

Sorry, this topic just gets me hot. It's too important to have it be messed up.

hoffse · July 2015

simplyelise said:

hoffse said:

I'm sorry, but even if the wills that DR sells are drafted by lawyers, laws change. And I hate to say it, but the lawyers writing the wills for will kits probably aren't the folks you want doing your estate planning anyway. The documents LegalZoom sells are drafted by lawyers. And yet, they get sued fairly often because the documents are poorly drafted or outdated by the time they are sold.

My state's LLC law changed in the last 6 months. The result? A bunch of us had to go to seminars to find out about the changes, we had to update or most basic forms that we use as launching points for drafting, we had to look at the clients who were in the process of forming companies to see if we needed to do anything to amend their documents, and then we had to run everything through the gauntlet of tax people to make sure the changes didn't screw up the tax provisions. Turns out, one of the changes did throw some tax sections into question, and then I got the delightful task of researching it and trying to figure out if we really had a problem or not. Clients get billed for none of this.

My state's tax abatement laws changed 2 weeks ago. We are starting the same process all over again. I went to a seminar on the new law last week.

I swear, I'm not saying to use an attorney because I'm an attorney and I want lawyers to get fees for wills. The fees for wills are piddly, and I would rather everything be standardized so that the off-the-shelf will kits were reliable. I'm saying to use an attorney because your attorney will be aware of the current laws in your state, and the cost savings of using a will kit is just not worth the risks of having it go wrong.

Totally understand this and think it's the best route if you can afford it. But the "piddly" fees for a will aren't sounding very piddly to me. And aren't you going to run into the exact same situation if you spend $1000 to get a will crafted by a lawyer and 8 months later a law changes. You have to spend more money again to get things updated.

My two cents is that in OP's position, if she is planning to keep everything simple, this is a fair option right now. She already plans to do the whole process with an attorney in 3 years, so she is looking for a stop-gap. The same is true in my situation. Our assets are under 30k (not including life insurance) and they are all joint. Our liabilities are under 35k and only include SLs in DHs name. And we aren't willing to put off student loan payments to pay attorney's fees.

But again, OP only use if you feel confident and comfortable. I've got a lot less at stake with no children.

Rarely, because usually the state legislatures have the sense to grandfather old wills in. Typically they have to be current as of their drafting date to be valid. Obviously it's no guarantee, and I am speaking in general terms here. The problems with will kits arise when they are sold after a law has changed, but the will kit hasn't been updated yet or the person who bought the kit held onto it for awhile before doing their will, and then the law changed in the interim. Or maybe the person printed off the will, decided they wanted to change some of the stock language, and crossed out a line. In some states, that will invalidate the entire document. In other states it's fine.

Sorry if the word piddly came off as harsh. From the lawyer's perspective, the amount of work it takes to do a will properly costs way more than the $300-$400 or so billed to the client. Every time the law changes, the lawyer has to invest quite a bit of time figuring out the new documents. People who do wills day in and day out make their living based on volume. They aren't making much off of your individual will.

Look, as I said before, having something is better than nothing, even if it's from a will kit. I just think there are times to spend money and times to cheap out. Getting a will in place because you are having kids is one of those times I think you should spend the money. In the big picture of life, $300-$400 to have it done right really isn't that much money. It's just not for the security you are buying your child. Many families spend more than that on their kid's stroller or the nursery furniture or whatever. And if that much money really is a hardship, then contact legal aid and ask for help. Many of us volunteer quite a bit of time to places like legal aid, and they have some great contacts.

People need to make their own choice of course. This is just my opinion.

formerlyGDaisy09 · July 2015

hoffse said:

simplyelise said:

hoffse said:

I'm sorry, but even if the wills that DR sells are drafted by lawyers, laws change. And I hate to say it, but the lawyers writing the wills for will kits probably aren't the folks you want doing your estate planning anyway. The documents LegalZoom sells are drafted by lawyers. And yet, they get sued fairly often because the documents are poorly drafted or outdated by the time they are sold.

My state's LLC law changed in the last 6 months. The result? A bunch of us had to go to seminars to find out about the changes, we had to update or most basic forms that we use as launching points for drafting, we had to look at the clients who were in the process of forming companies to see if we needed to do anything to amend their documents, and then we had to run everything through the gauntlet of tax people to make sure the changes didn't screw up the tax provisions. Turns out, one of the changes did throw some tax sections into question, and then I got the delightful task of researching it and trying to figure out if we really had a problem or not. Clients get billed for none of this.

My state's tax abatement laws changed 2 weeks ago. We are starting the same process all over again. I went to a seminar on the new law last week.

I swear, I'm not saying to use an attorney because I'm an attorney and I want lawyers to get fees for wills. The fees for wills are piddly, and I would rather everything be standardized so that the off-the-shelf will kits were reliable. I'm saying to use an attorney because your attorney will be aware of the current laws in your state, and the cost savings of using a will kit is just not worth the risks of having it go wrong.

Totally understand this and think it's the best route if you can afford it. But the "piddly" fees for a will aren't sounding very piddly to me. And aren't you going to run into the exact same situation if you spend $1000 to get a will crafted by a lawyer and 8 months later a law changes. You have to spend more money again to get things updated.

My two cents is that in OP's position, if she is planning to keep everything simple, this is a fair option right now. She already plans to do the whole process with an attorney in 3 years, so she is looking for a stop-gap. The same is true in my situation. Our assets are under 30k (not including life insurance) and they are all joint. Our liabilities are under 35k and only include SLs in DHs name. And we aren't willing to put off student loan payments to pay attorney's fees.

But again, OP only use if you feel confident and comfortable. I've got a lot less at stake with no children.

Rarely, because usually the state legislatures have the sense to grandfather old wills in. Typically they have to be current as of their drafting date to be valid. Obviously it's no guarantee, and I am speaking in general terms here. The problems with will kits arise when they are sold after a law has changed, but the will kit hasn't been updated yet or the person who bought the kit held onto it for awhile before doing their will, and then the law changed in the interim. Or maybe the person printed off the will, decided they wanted to change some of the stock language, and crossed out a line. In some states, that will invalidate the entire document. In other states it's fine.

Sorry if the word piddly came off as harsh. From the lawyer's perspective, the amount of work it takes to do a will properly costs way more than the $300-$400 or so billed to the client. Every time the law changes, the lawyer has to invest quite a bit of time figuring out the new documents. People who do wills day in and day out make their living based on volume. They aren't making much off of your individual will.

Look, as I said before, having something is better than nothing, even if it's from a will kit. I just think there are times to spend money and times to cheap out. Getting a will in place because you are having kids is one of those times I think you should spend the money. In the big picture of life, $300-$400 to have it done right really isn't that much money. It's just not for the security you are buying your child. Many families spend more than that on their kid's stroller or the nursery furniture or whatever. And if that much money really is a hardship, then contact legal aid and ask for help. Many of us volunteer quite a bit of time to places like legal aid, and they have some great contacts.

People need to make their own choice of course. This is just my opinion.

I'm not sure where this falls in the registry etiquette book, but I went to a session last night called "what is a Doula?" because my husband and I are planning to hire one. when the issue of cost came up (they quoted $600 as an average cost, ours we're interviewing costs $450) one of the Doulas suggested adding "Doula services" as an item on a baby registry that people could contribute towards, it was an interesting idea, not sure I'd do it, but I'm also not sure if it would be a faux-pas to put that kind of thing on there. I'm not sure what you would call it, but you might be able to put a "family legal services" item in a registry as something people could contribute towards?

blondie42107 · July 2015

Advanced directives can be done on your own where I live (I know state laws vary). Most doctors/hospitals are more than willing to have your doctor review it and upload it into their computer database so that it's easy to find in the event that you need it. Also easy to transfer that information to another hospital.

Any wills/trusts/etc that might get tricky (lots of assets, kids, etc) I would suggest knowing it's done right and hiring a professional!

blondie42107 · July 2015

@formerlyGDaisy09

I know every region has their likes/dislikes. Honeymoon registries are pretty much a "no no" in my region so I'm not sure how a doula would go but I'd give a gift of money towards it!

JoanE2012 · July 2015

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

hoffse said:

simplyelise said:

hoffse said:

I'm sorry, but even if the wills that DR sells are drafted by lawyers, laws change. And I hate to say it, but the lawyers writing the wills for will kits probably aren't the folks you want doing your estate planning anyway. The documents LegalZoom sells are drafted by lawyers. And yet, they get sued fairly often because the documents are poorly drafted or outdated by the time they are sold.

My state's LLC law changed in the last 6 months. The result? A bunch of us had to go to seminars to find out about the changes, we had to update or most basic forms that we use as launching points for drafting, we had to look at the clients who were in the process of forming companies to see if we needed to do anything to amend their documents, and then we had to run everything through the gauntlet of tax people to make sure the changes didn't screw up the tax provisions. Turns out, one of the changes did throw some tax sections into question, and then I got the delightful task of researching it and trying to figure out if we really had a problem or not. Clients get billed for none of this.

My state's tax abatement laws changed 2 weeks ago. We are starting the same process all over again. I went to a seminar on the new law last week.

I swear, I'm not saying to use an attorney because I'm an attorney and I want lawyers to get fees for wills. The fees for wills are piddly, and I would rather everything be standardized so that the off-the-shelf will kits were reliable. I'm saying to use an attorney because your attorney will be aware of the current laws in your state, and the cost savings of using a will kit is just not worth the risks of having it go wrong.

Totally understand this and think it's the best route if you can afford it. But the "piddly" fees for a will aren't sounding very piddly to me. And aren't you going to run into the exact same situation if you spend $1000 to get a will crafted by a lawyer and 8 months later a law changes. You have to spend more money again to get things updated.

My two cents is that in OP's position, if she is planning to keep everything simple, this is a fair option right now. She already plans to do the whole process with an attorney in 3 years, so she is looking for a stop-gap. The same is true in my situation. Our assets are under 30k (not including life insurance) and they are all joint. Our liabilities are under 35k and only include SLs in DHs name. And we aren't willing to put off student loan payments to pay attorney's fees.

But again, OP only use if you feel confident and comfortable. I've got a lot less at stake with no children.

Rarely, because usually the state legislatures have the sense to grandfather old wills in. Typically they have to be current as of their drafting date to be valid. Obviously it's no guarantee, and I am speaking in general terms here. The problems with will kits arise when they are sold after a law has changed, but the will kit hasn't been updated yet or the person who bought the kit held onto it for awhile before doing their will, and then the law changed in the interim. Or maybe the person printed off the will, decided they wanted to change some of the stock language, and crossed out a line. In some states, that will invalidate the entire document. In other states it's fine.

Sorry if the word piddly came off as harsh. From the lawyer's perspective, the amount of work it takes to do a will properly costs way more than the $300-$400 or so billed to the client. Every time the law changes, the lawyer has to invest quite a bit of time figuring out the new documents. People who do wills day in and day out make their living based on volume. They aren't making much off of your individual will.

Look, as I said before, having something is better than nothing, even if it's from a will kit. I just think there are times to spend money and times to cheap out. Getting a will in place because you are having kids is one of those times I think you should spend the money. In the big picture of life, $300-$400 to have it done right really isn't that much money. It's just not for the security you are buying your child. Many families spend more than that on their kid's stroller or the nursery furniture or whatever. And if that much money really is a hardship, then contact legal aid and ask for help. Many of us volunteer quite a bit of time to places like legal aid, and they have some great contacts.

People need to make their own choice of course. This is just my opinion.

I'm not sure where this falls in the registry etiquette book, but I went to a session last night called "what is a Doula?" because my husband and I are planning to hire one. when the issue of cost came up (they quoted $600 as an average cost, ours we're interviewing costs $450) one of the Doulas suggested adding "Doula services" as an item on a baby registry that people could contribute towards, it was an interesting idea, not sure I'd do it, but I'm also not sure if it would be a faux-pas to put that kind of thing on there. I'm not sure what you would call it, but you might be able to put a "family legal services" item in a registry as something people could contribute towards?

Of course a doula would think it's a good idea to add their services to a registry - it benefits them! The wedding/baby/whatever industry doesn't care much if it's inappropriate - they're trying to make money!

Needless to say, I would not contribute towards a doula or legal services - I don't think it's an appropriate registry item. A registry is generally used to provide physical gifts at a shower. Where does it stop? Why not ask for copays for the baby's doctor visits? Or money to pay for baby and me swim sessions?

bcarb · July 2015

Thanks for all the info ladies--you guys really are the best. We will most likley be calling a lawyer and have it set up--I am guilty of spending a ton of money on a stroller, so I can't really be cheap about this, which is way more important!

And as far as adding a doula service to your registry--I probably wouldnt contribute to that--but then again I dont think Doula's are that popular here

Erikan73 · July 2015

I think it depends on how complicated things are if you want to go through a lawyer or do it yourself. When I say complicated, how do you want your estate handled should you both pass at the same time but your baby survives. Do you want it to go into a trust? My husband and I did the forms, had them witnessed & notorized. But to be honest, it's just the two of us and the only real assets are our cars, house & my 401K. But we also did it quickly because of an unexpected surgery I had. We will be going to a lawyer to get them redone to make sure it's solid and can't be disputed. Not sure who would dispute them, but still. I don't want things to get tied up in probate court for who knows how long because we didn't have good wills and clear about our wishes.

smerka · July 2015

If I were a single person with a car and a bank account, I would use Legal Zoom or its ilk to do a will. But I am not. I am a wife and a mother with a house and other assets. And some BSC inlaws. We have a will and health care stuff taken care of, but not an estate plan, which we probably need. Don't forget that Dave Ramsey gets paid to endorse US Legal forms. I can pretty much guarantee you he did not use them for his own stuff. And I may just start giving cash or gift cards earmarked for legal services as a shower gift. Seems way more appropriate than another blanket.

formerlyGDaisy09 · July 2015

blondie42107 said:

@formerlyGDaisy09

I know every region has their likes/dislikes. Honeymoon registries are pretty much a "no no" in my region so I'm not sure how a doula would go but I'd give a gift of money towards it!

I definitely wouldn't put these things on my registry. Depending on your social circle it may go over differently among the people invited to baby showers. I would probably side-eye it, but the comparison of a will to a good child safety seat made me think of it. I do know in our area it isn't unusual to get a little cash as gifts at a bay shower, you could always earmark that cash to pay for legal services.

brij2006 · July 2015

Had our will not been complex, we would have gone through US legalforms.com. However, ours has a bit more to it with owning farm land with a contract for rights and usage to other people. So we went through the lawyer, and it cost us $500 to set up.

No degradation to any other lawyers, but there is no reason to set up a complex system with living trusts and all of that, if your setup is quite simplistic. Money goes into a trust, X handles said trust, children go to Y. Kids get __% of money at age __, another __% at age __, and the remained at age __. Tada, will complete.

A good rule of thumb, if you don't understand the way your estate is set up, then it shouldn't be set up that way. Do it in a way that you understand and can explain.

Ours is set up that everything gets sold and put into a trust fund. My mom is executor of our trust, and is the one to handle getting everything sold (she is doing this currently with my brothers' estate and is very good at it, so we know she can handle it). Our DD will receive 10% of the money in the trust at age 25, and the remaining amount ate age 30. However, if we were to die today, our estate would be worth 2.5mil. That's a lot of money to hand to an 18 year old, and we feel it would be hurtful to her to have at that age. Especially since we do not know her personality or tendencies yet. She is also able to approach the executor to ask for money to buy a car, go to college, get married, and buy a house before she is 30, but those are the only stipulations where she can pull out from it.

MommyLiberty5013 · July 2015

The three things survivors would fight or disagree over would be 1. Your assets. 2. Who gets the kids. 3. Your end of life care. With the complicated nature of families these days (multiple marriages, step-parents, many medical choices, etc.) why leave it up to chance by not having documents in place or why leave it up to unenforceable documents?

The other benefit of having an attorney draw up your papers, is that s/he could guide the executor in the future if needed. Obviously, there would be a fee associated with the lawyer's time, but the lawyer would already be familiar with the case/family.

As a point of information: I'm pretty sure that if your bank accounts or IRAs have payable on deaths listed on them, these listings supersede any wills. So, if your savings account listed your ex-husband as payable on death, then if you died, he'd get the money even if your newly drafted will said to give money to your kids with your new husband. It's important to make all things line up.

Setting up a will

Re: Setting up a will

Choose Another Board

Search Boards