Gun Violence

catsareniice1

Liberal policies are getting people killed. Since 1950 every mass shooting of this type, except one has taken place in a "gun free zone".

Obama's speech irked me. There were only a couple of security guards on campus at the college in Oregon. They were only armed with mace. The shooter knew this!!

I want my gun in the event that a criminal should try to enter my house and attack me and my family!

smerka

Liberal policies are not getting people killed. Guns in combination with mental illness are getting people killed. We are the only industrialized country in which this happens with any regularity. Why? Because we let too many people have too many guns without looking into their history. I am not for getting rid of all of the guns. I grew up in an area where many people hunted and I fully support their choice to do that. But you don't need automatic or even semiautomatic weapons to do that. And frankly you don't need crazy weapons to protect your home.

MommyLiberty5013

I agree with both of you PPs (@smerka and @catsareniice1 ). I dislike that Obama IMMEDIATELY made this about guns instead of making it about hate. The gun conversation needs to be had, but let's just not go there within hours of the event. It was "off" and very out of place. Tactless.

I also think that "gun free zones" are a total joke. Case in point, last spring Minnesota's Mall of America was under terror threat from radical Muslims. What did MOA do? They went around and hung up signs that said, "This is a gun free zone." Yes, they beefed up security. But, my friend's DH who is a US Marshall said he wouldn't step foot in that place. Hanging up signs is the stupidest thing ever. First, criminals and crazy people intent on violence are not going to follow a posted sign. Second, it notifies the criminals and crazy people that pretty much all the people inside the "gun free zone" are gun free. Why not just not post signs? Keep the bad guys guessing about whether or not someone inside is (legally) carrying a firearm.

The issue, though, is that Americans have always had guns. But, if you look at the incidences of mass shootings in the USA (some (like 1 or 2) happened in the 1800's and into the 1900's) it wasn't until the 1980's when mass shootings hit an extreme uptick. And, then they virtually exploded in the 2000's to present. If gun ownership in the USA has always existed, I think the fair assumption is that it isn't about the GUNS being owned, or the type of guns, or the number of guns. Something has been altered in the population to be the causation of all the violence. I believe something that used to be in check in the population is no longer in check. We have lost something as a society and culture and its removal is the reason we have so many violent outbursts.

Guns are guns and are only dangerous in the hands of faulty individuals. Guns don't cause the violence, the people holding them do. Trite? Yes, but true nonetheless.

My question is: WHY so much more violence in the past few decades? Like I said, guns have always been within these borders, en masse. The quality and character of the populous has changed for the worse.

catsareniice1

smerka said:

Liberal policies are not getting people killed. Guns in combination with mental illness are getting people killed. We are the only industrialized country in which this happens with any regularity. Why? Because we let too many people have too many guns without looking into their history. I am not for getting rid of all of the guns. I grew up in an area where many people hunted and I fully support their choice to do that. But you don't need automatic or even semiautomatic weapons to do that. And frankly you don't need crazy weapons to protect your home.

Mental illness for sure! It needs to be addressed in this country along with the break down of values and family values. I also agree with you that semiautomatic weapons are unnecessary. I just don't want my right to bears arms taken away God forbid I'm in a situation.

catsareniice1

MommyLiberty5013 said:

I agree with both of you PPs (@smerka and @catsareniice1 ). I dislike that Obama IMMEDIATELY made this about guns instead of making it about hate. The gun conversation needs to be had, but let's just not go there within hours of the event. It was "off" and very out of place. Tactless.

I also think that "gun free zones" are a total joke. Case in point, last spring Minnesota's Mall of America was under terror threat from radical Muslims. What did MOA do? They went around and hung up signs that said, "This is a gun free zone." Yes, they beefed up security. But, my friend's DH who is a US Marshall said he wouldn't step foot in that place. Hanging up signs is the stupidest thing ever. First, criminals and crazy people intent on violence are not going to follow a posted sign. Second, it notifies the criminals and crazy people that pretty much all the people inside the "gun free zone" are gun free. Why not just not post signs? Keep the bad guys guessing about whether or not someone inside is (legally) carrying a firearm.

The issue, though, is that Americans have always had guns. But, if you look at the incidences of mass shootings in the USA (some (like 1 or 2) happened in the 1800's and into the 1900's) it wasn't until the 1980's when mass shootings hit an extreme uptick. And, then they virtually exploded in the 2000's to present. If gun ownership in the USA has always existed, I think the fair assumption is that it isn't about the GUNS being owned, or the type of guns, or the number of guns. Something has been altered in the population to be the causation of all the violence. I believe something that used to be in check in the population is no longer in check. We have lost something as a society and culture and its removal is the reason we have so many violent outbursts.

Guns are guns and are only dangerous in the hands of faulty individuals. Guns don't cause the violence, the people holding them do. Trite? Yes, but true nonetheless.

My question is: WHY so much more violence in the past few decades? Like I said, guns have always been within these borders, en masse. The quality and character of the populous has changed for the worse.

catsareniice1

Sorry ML! I cannot edit for some reason. I meant to respond to your quote but ended up adding to your post instead.

short+sassy

I wish we could be like other countries who have basically outlawed handguns and there is SUBSTANTIALLY less gun violence.  But, unfortunately, we are too late for that.  There are already guns everywhere here so, to all of a sudden no longer allow handguns, would just mean all the law abiding citizens could not protect themselves as easily.

It would be like trying to put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube!

I don't know what the answer is.  Sure wish I did, because it is heartbreaking.

nkjacobsma

As a psychology graduate student, it irks me when people say things like, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Intuitively, this makes sense, but tons of psychological research has shown that people are much more likely to act violently when a gun is present. Yes, mental health is on the decline currently, and mental illness is one of the main culprits for all these mass shootings. I do not think outlawing guns in right and that we should do that, but gun control and mental health are important because guns don't kill people, but the combination of guns and mental health issues and  people kill people. It's a much more complicated issue than both sides make it out to be.

catsareniice1

Lots of great points here! I was also a psychology major in college. What also needs to be looked at is why these shooters are all men. Aside from the testosterone factor, I think it's because men are socialized differently than women. Boys/men are taught to be tough, "man up". They're basically taught to bottle their emotions. Eventually, some men explode due to holding in their emotions all their lives. Also, we live in a society where seeing extreme violence on tv and video games is the norm. You add that to the mix with absent fathers/parenting and you have a recipe for disaster!

vlagrl29

DH told me that the reason there are so many mentally ill people doing this is because there aren't as many mentally ill people in hospitals as there once was.  IDK - part of me wants an armed security guard and and metal detector at every school and gun free zone for that matter - then I guess it wouldn't be gun free right?  I'm not for taking away everyones guns.  That's just silly and won't solve the problem.  I would however be for more back ground checks and I think both parties need to come to a common ground on this but I won't hold my breath.

short+sassy

catsareniice1 said:

Lots of great points here! I was also a psychology major in college. What also needs to be looked at is why these shooters are all men. Aside from the testosterone factor, I think it's because men are socialized differently than women. Boys/men are taught to be tough, "man up". They're basically taught to bottle their emotions. Eventually, some men explode due to holding in their emotions all their lives. Also, we live in a society where seeing extreme violence on tv and video games is the norm. You add that to the mix with absent fathers/parenting and you have a recipe for disaster!

(Keep getting SITB today)
I dated a gun nut in college and he told me that usually, at least as new shooters, women tend to be better shots than men.  Because, as children, boys are more likely to have played pretend shooting games...like, "Bam, bam" and then they pull their hands back.  So, instinctively, they "anticipate the round" and pull their hands back when first shooting a real gun.  However, a novice woman shooter is more likely to just keep her hands steady.

I don't know if all that is really true as I only ever heard that from him, but it seems like it would make sense.

BlueBirdMB

I live in a region with a low violent crime rate.  We also have extremely loose gun laws.  I am pretty much the only person I know who doesn't own a gun.  Most people I know carry a concealed gun.  It's very common place here.  I don't think gun restrictions = less violent crimes.  We've always had fairly loose gun laws in this country, but only had the issue of mass shootings in recent history.  Why?  Why now?  That is the question we as a country need to be asking.  We have an issue in our society that I think has very little to do with gun laws.

MommyLiberty5013

BlueBirdMB said:

I live in a region with a low violent crime rate.  We also have extremely loose gun laws.  I am pretty much the only person I know who doesn't own a gun.  Most people I know carry a concealed gun.  It's very common place here.  I don't think gun restrictions = less violent crimes.  We've always had fairly loose gun laws in this country, but only had the issue of mass shootings in recent history.  Why?  Why now?  That is the question we as a country need to be asking.  We have an issue in our society that I think has very little to do with gun laws.

Exactly! That's what I said earlier. Mass shootings have always occurred in the USA and worldwide because there have always been people with mental illness who have gotten a gun and killed others.

But now, it's like the incidences of mental illness are sky-rocketing. It's not the presence of guns that causes the mental illness. While a gun being present means it's more likely to be used is NOT the causation of the sicknesses people have.

We need to focus on why people are having so much mental illness/depression. That's the root cause of the violence. Figure it out, treat it, get people help and there will be fewer shootings.