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Demcratic Debates

Re: Demcratic Debates

  • weed :) LOL - honestly I haven't seem much of it because I've had to help DD with homework and get her showered and in bed but what I have heard it was about paid parental leave, big banks, top 1%.  I do find Bernie intriguing  - he seems very passionate.  I don't work corporate but I really think paid family leave would be awesome if I did.
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  • I think Hillary did a great job from what I saw.  She seemed confident and had answers ready.
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  • vlagrl29 said:
    I think Hillary did a great job from what I saw.  She seemed confident and had answers ready.
    She had answers but was extremely cocky! I don't trust her at all. She's good at lying, yes. lol
  • Damn, now I want to see it more.  I totally missed it.  
  • The only person on that stage approaching star status is not electable (Sanders). Whenever Hillary can't think of anything to say she mentions Obama's name or tells us how wonderful it would be for her to be the first woman president.
  • vlagrl29vlagrl29 member
    Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited October 2015
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?
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  • Bernie is a democratic socialist. He wants America to be like the Scandinavian countries. Super high taxes, but many government services.
  • BlueBirdMBBlueBirdMB member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited October 2015
    vlagrl29 said:
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?
    exactly what @smerka said.  And having spent some time in Scandinavia, it all sounds great, but, for example, taxes are so high that it becomes impossible for there to be a stay at home parent because they have to work to pay taxes so they can all have a year or so of paid maternity leave.  That was an issue they were having when I was there and I heard some people complaining about it. 
    The tax of cars is so high in some of those countries, that the demand (and taxes) on bicycles has increased so dramatically that the average cost for a bicycle in Demark (and this was 10 years ago) was $2,000.  High taxes eliminate individual choice.

    Ok, I've seen parts of the debate now and Hilary looked really presidential.  She honestly seemed like the only person with a clue up there.
  • vlagrl29 said:
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?
    exactly what @smerka said.  And having spent some time in Scandinavia, it all sounds great, but, for example, taxes are so high that it becomes impossible for there to be a stay at home parent because they have to work to pay taxes so they can all have a year or so of paid maternity leave.  That was an issue they were having when I was there and I heard some people complaining about it. 
    The tax of cars is so high in some of those countries, that the demand (and taxes) on bicycles has increased so dramatically that the average cost for a bicycle in Demark (and this was 10 years ago) was $2,000.  High taxes eliminate individual choice.

    Ok, I've seen parts of the debate now and Hilary looked really presidential.  She honestly seemed like the only person with a clue up there.
    Yeah I don't think I would be comfy with him being president.  Really none of them addressed how to decrease the deficit at least on the parts I watched.  I totally agree Hilary looks really presidential.  I still think she will be their nominee.
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  • Ok, I've seen parts of the debate now and Hilary looked really presidential.  She honestly seemed like the only person with a clue up there.
    Yeah I don't think I would be comfy with him being president.  Really none of them addressed how to decrease the deficit at least on the parts I watched.  I totally agree Hilary looks really presidential.  I still think she will be their nominee.
    I wasn't convinced she would be the nominee until seeing parts of the debate.  I thought Sanders might actually pull it off or that Biden would be thrown in (he still might) as a desperate scramble to make sure a more moderate democrat received the nomination.  But she did great and I think democrat voters that were maybe a little unsure about her or nervous about her, were probably swayed.
  • Out of all the democratic candidates in the debate, I only liked Jim Webb. He made the most sense to me.
  • Out of all the democratic candidates in the debate, I only liked Jim Webb. He made the most sense to me.
    Lol that's because he's a former Republican!
  • vlagrl29 said:
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?

    I'm fairly liberal, but each one of these goes too far for me.

    --We already give huge tax breaks, imo for no reason, to people who have kids so why hamper businesses by forcing them to give parents paid maternity leave just because they CHOSE to have a family.  That's totally ridiculous.  Paid maternity leave is common in Canada, but that is because businesses choose to do that, though they do get a tax break.  That last sentence is how I am pretty sure it is done, but don't quote me!

    I wouldn't even side-eye a tax break given to businesses for offering this, but it shouldn't be mandated.

    --I think minimum wage absolutely needs to keep up with inflation and it hasn't, but $15/hour would be essentially doubling it and that would be crazy and an absolute disaster.  I looked it up once a few months ago and, if it were to have kept up with inflation for the last few decades, it should be somewhere around $9 and something.  So, yes raise it, but not to $15/hour.

    --Free college is probably the one out of the three I have the least problem with.  Because there would obviously be huge benefits to our country as a whole if we had a more educated populace.  But I still think our system of subsidizing state colleges, but not having it be completely free is the best way to go.

    I know school loans added to the enormous escalation of education costs have become a big problem in our society.  But, I think that stems more from students choosing private universities instead of state ones anyway.  I'm not knocking that choice!  I'm more just pointing out there are already substantially cheaper ways to get a college degree if that is what one wants.

    Plus, people often don't value what they get for free. 

  • First of all, the tax breaks for kids aren't exactly huge. You get $1,000 child tax credit per kid and an additional exemption. But you would get that additional exemption if you were supporting ...say your parent. It costs waaaaay more than that to raise a kid. Now I totally agree that it is everyone's choice to have kids, but if we didn't encourage people having kids, our population would start to decrease. And I don't need to explain what would happen to Social Security if the working population went down. I agree that mandated maternity leave is a hard pill to swallow. Businesses already can provided paid maternity leave if they wanted. And some even do.
  • vlagrl29 said:
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?

    I'm fairly liberal, but each one of these goes too far for me.

    --We already give huge tax breaks, imo for no reason, to people who have kids so why hamper businesses by forcing them to give parents paid maternity leave just because they CHOSE to have a family.  That's totally ridiculous.  Paid maternity leave is common in Canada, but that is because businesses choose to do that, though they do get a tax break.  That last sentence is how I am pretty sure it is done, but don't quote me!

    I wouldn't even side-eye a tax break given to businesses for offering this, but it shouldn't be mandated.

    --I think minimum wage absolutely needs to keep up with inflation and it hasn't, but $15/hour would be essentially doubling it and that would be crazy and an absolute disaster.  I looked it up once a few months ago and, if it were to have kept up with inflation for the last few decades, it should be somewhere around $9 and something.  So, yes raise it, but not to $15/hour.

    --Free college is probably the one out of the three I have the least problem with.  Because there would obviously be huge benefits to our country as a whole if we had a more educated populace.  But I still think our system of subsidizing state colleges, but not having it be completely free is the best way to go.

    I know school loans added to the enormous escalation of education costs have become a big problem in our society.  But, I think that stems more from students choosing private universities instead of state ones anyway.  I'm not knocking that choice!  I'm more just pointing out there are already substantially cheaper ways to get a college degree if that is what one wants.

    Plus, people often don't value what they get for free. 

    I totally agree with all of this!  

    I do think the main reason why college prices are so overinflated however is because of our student loan system.  Demand for college will always be high and the supply has become high because we keep throwing more money at it.  As a result, colleges can charge whatever the hell they want to because they know there will be demand and plenty of supply.  It's become a disastrous bubble.
  • The reason college costs have increased so much is increased demand. I went to a Big Ten university and graduated 20 years ago. It was $10,000 a year including room and board. Now it is $30,000 a year. The biggest reason for the increase is the decrease in state funding and the cost has been transferred to the students. Not everyone should go to college. Some poeple just aren't made for it. But I totally think that more technical options should be available for people (not just four year degrees always).
  • smerka said:
    First of all, the tax breaks for kids aren't exactly huge. You get $1,000 child tax credit per kid and an additional exemption. But you would get that additional exemption if you were supporting ...say your parent. It costs waaaaay more than that to raise a kid. Now I totally agree that it is everyone's choice to have kids, but if we didn't encourage people having kids, our population would start to decrease. And I don't need to explain what would happen to Social Security if the working population went down. I agree that mandated maternity leave is a hard pill to swallow. Businesses already can provided paid maternity leave if they wanted. And some even do.

    Not exactly parents (at least not that I know of), but yes someone with a disability that leaves them unable to work.  I actually do not have an issue with that type of exemption.  Or with exemptions for people who are taking care of foster children.  For me, the difference is those are examples of someone selflessly taking care of another person who would otherwise be an even bigger burden on our society.

    And I would agree with your point about population if this was currently a problem in our country.  But at the present time, it isn't.  I also don't think whether there is a tax break or not would influence anyone, one way or the other, to have more or less children.

    Totally agree it is far more expensive to pay for all the things kids need than the tax savings, but that still doesn't mean parents should get a tax break.  I only mean that from a policy standpoint, definitely not blaming anyone for taking whatever tax breaks they can claim.  For example, I think a deduction for mortgage interest is ridiculous also...just because someone CHOSE to buy a home, like me.  But, as a homeowner, I will also take whatever tax breaks are given to me even if I don't agree with them. 

  • edited October 2015
    vlagrl29 said:
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?
    exactly what @smerka said.  And having spent some time in Scandinavia, it all sounds great, but, for example, taxes are so high that it becomes impossible for there to be a stay at home parent because they have to work to pay taxes so they can all have a year or so of paid maternity leave.  That was an issue they were having when I was there and I heard some people complaining about it. 
    The tax of cars is so high in some of those countries, that the demand (and taxes) on bicycles has increased so dramatically that the average cost for a bicycle in Demark (and this was 10 years ago) was $2,000.  High taxes eliminate individual choice.

    Ok, I've seen parts of the debate now and Hilary looked really presidential.  She honestly seemed like the only person with a clue up there.



    vlagrl29 said:
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?
    exactly what @smerka said.  And having spent some time in Scandinavia, it all sounds great, but, for example, taxes are so high that it becomes impossible for there to be a stay at home parent because they have to work to pay taxes so they can all have a year or so of paid maternity leave.  That was an issue they were having when I was there and I heard some people complaining about it. 
    The tax of cars is so high in some of those countries, that the demand (and taxes) on bicycles has increased so dramatically that the average cost for a bicycle in Demark (and this was 10 years ago) was $2,000.  High taxes eliminate individual choice.

    Ok, I've seen parts of the debate now and Hilary looked really presidential.  She honestly seemed like the only person with a clue up there.

  • vlagrl29 said:
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?
    exactly what @smerka said.  And having spent some time in Scandinavia, it all sounds great, but, for example, taxes are so high that it becomes impossible for there to be a stay at home parent because they have to work to pay taxes so they can all have a year or so of paid maternity leave.  That was an issue they were having when I was there and I heard some people complaining about it. 
    The tax of cars is so high in some of those countries, that the demand (and taxes) on bicycles has increased so dramatically that the average cost for a bicycle in Demark (and this was 10 years ago) was $2,000.  High taxes eliminate individual choice.

    Ok, I've seen parts of the debate now and Hilary looked really presidential.  She honestly seemed like the only person with a clue up there.



    vlagrl29 said:
    Hilary has the experience and it shows.  I think she will go all the way.  Sanders was talking so loud!

    does anyone know how sanders will pay for all of these things he wants - paid maternity leave, $15 minimum wage, free college?  It all sounds lovely but how is that attainable?
    exactly what @smerka said.  And having spent some time in Scandinavia, it all sounds great, but, for example, taxes are so high that it becomes impossible for there to be a stay at home parent because they have to work to pay taxes so they can all have a year or so of paid maternity leave.  That was an issue they were having when I was there and I heard some people complaining about it. 
    The tax of cars is so high in some of those countries, that the demand (and taxes) on bicycles has increased so dramatically that the average cost for a bicycle in Demark (and this was 10 years ago) was $2,000.  High taxes eliminate individual choice.

    Ok, I've seen parts of the debate now and Hilary looked really presidential.  She honestly seemed like the only person with a clue up there.


  • Ack. None of my responses are posting to TN. So here's what I said in response to @BlueBirdMB


  • edited October 2015

    Ack. None of my responses are posting to TN. So here's what I said in response to @BlueBirdMB

    And, with 2 parents having to work just to exist, it's why these countries have negative birth rates - many parents having only one child and many more married people having no children.

    Eventually, their cultures will die out (not based on opinion - it's a mathematical fact that cultures die out without a certain level of replacement via babies born). They are dying off faster than they are reproducing.

    Another thing that could happen is that they become Islamic nations. Muslims families usually have many children. European families do not. This is fact. The European average for kids is like 1.5 (I am not sure is this is exact, but I know it's less than 2). The average for Muslim families is like 8 (again, I am trying to recall stats without looking them up, but the point is that Muslim families have well more than 1, 2, or 3). The stats already show that due to population spread and birth-death rates, many of the European nations we now see as distinctly "European" won't be the same in even 50 years from a demographic population standpoint.

    It is what it is. Populations change all the time. But, I have to admit that from what we see from Islamic Extremism, and the destruction of non-Muslim buildings and structures, I do wonder how many European historical treasures will remain if those lands eventually become ruled by an Islamic majority.

    I am not eager to go the Scandinavian route, because I don't think it's the responsibility of the government to provide me with what I need. If they give me stuff, then they get to decide what, when and how I get it. I want my freedoms of choice. I want to be an American as the original founding fathers intended.


  • I have no idea about this source, but it seems to show a different story MommyLiberty. I think it is more a function of people of second or third world areas moving to the first world where families are smaller. http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2008/muslimsineurope.aspx
  • The seventh paragraph explains what I was trying to so much better. http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/future-of-the-global-muslim-population-main-factors/
  • edited October 2015

    This is a link to Wikipedia about the birth rates to sustain a population. While I don't like Wikipedia, here it is drawing on a multitude of sources and studies to explain the situation. Basically, a population needs to average at least 2.1 children per couple to sustain itself. Many European countries, all fall under this number of 2.1.

    If these populations are not being replenished at at least 2.1 children to each couple, and due to immigration of another demographic moving in with this new demographic reproducing at an extremely high rate by comparison, then after a short while the original population will become the minority and the immigrants will become the majority. This is what is happening in Europe. Many European governments are actually giving their citizens monetary incentives to HAVE MORE KIDS.

    ETA:

  • edited October 2015

    Link to Wikipedia that I mentioned in my PP. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility



  • This is a link to Wikipedia about the birth rates to sustain a population. While I don't like Wikipedia, here it is drawing on a multitude of sources and studies to explain the situation. Basically, a population needs to average at least 2.1 children per couple to sustain itself. Many European countries, all fall under this number of 2.1.

    If these populations are not being replenished at at least 2.1 children to each couple, and due to immigration of another demographic moving in with this new demographic reproducing at an extremely high rate by comparison, then after a short while the original population will become the minority and the immigrants will become the majority. This is what is happening in Europe. Many European governments are actually giving their citizens monetary incentives to HAVE MORE KIDS.

    ETA:

    wow I had no idea about any of this.  makes sense though.
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  • I understand what you are saying. But the Muslim population explosion just isn't happening after the second generation. And don't forget that America is getting browner but nobody is complaining because that population growth is in hispanics which happen to be mostly Christian and conservative.
  • smerka said:
    I understand what you are saying. But the Muslim population explosion just isn't happening after the second generation. And don't forget that America is getting browner but nobody is complaining because that population growth is in hispanics which happen to be mostly Christian and conservative.

    For the record, I wasn't complaining about anything or anyone. I was just stating the facts behind shifts of demographics in populations and how it's mathematically-based.

    Regardless of whether or not the Muslim population explosion continues or not after the 2nd generation may be immaterial. If the Europeans have fewer than 2.1 kids per couple, which they do, and the first generations of Muslims are having as high of an average of 6, 7 or even 8 children per couple, then the sheer numbers of people produced in that 2nd generation of Muslims will outnumber the European population even if the 2nd and 3rd generations of Muslims have 3, 4 or 5 kids per couple that cause a decrease in the Muslim population boom. That initial explosion in Muslim families, in conjunction with a significant reduction in European family size, will create an overall increase in the Muslim population. Then, factor in death rates. Smaller European families, will die off and not be replaced by their future generations. Muslim death rates will more than adequately be replaced.

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