To update kitchen, or not to update kitchen?

brij2006

So we have had quite a few changes in the past week with my H's job, and we are looking to possibly move closer to his work.  This means we will need to get our house ready to put on the market.

We bought our home as a foreclosure 7 years ago.  The pipes had burst in it so it was a gut and remodel.  It's an old late 1800's Victorian style home, and the only room that hasn't been completely redone is the kitchen.  We bought the home for $49k, and it now appraises at $110k.  The appraiser said that if we just painted the cabinets, replaced the countertops with laminate, and put up trim in the kitchen, we could look to get another $5-10k added to the appraised value.

Now this is where we stand.  Our town is small (800 people), and you have to have the perfect person looking for a home here in order to move a house at that price range.  We would likely list our house at $100-110k and know we may sit on it for 6 months.  If it hasn't sold before then, we will drop the price. We can take $80k and still break even with what we paid and what we have put into it as far as remodeling. 

To re-do the kitchen, we can probably skate in at around $5,000.  However, this means doing the work ourselves and waiting at least 3-4 months before putting it on the market (H and FIL would do the work and H works a ton of hours).  We would just paint the kitchen cabinets white, install a neutral laminate counter top (we can do stock pieces with the measurements we need), and put up trim to match the rest of the house. 

Would you do it, or would you keep it how it is and just know you will have to ask less? We would probably break even with how much it will cost to do the kitchen and how much more we would get from the sale of our home.  But it would also make our house show better to a potential buyer.

Attached is a picture of what it currently looks like.

All of the homes in our area are very old.  So the rest of the house is considered very updated for the area.  If that helps.

simplyelise

I hope the changes at his job are welcome and not disappointing!

I would probably not worry about it. Maaaaaybe I would paint the cabinets white if anything, but not bother with the rest. From your description, it's probably going to sit for awhile anyway and your house will already stand out from others in the area, so you don't have much if anything to gain. And with the opportunity cost of sacrificing your husband's already limited free time...it's not adding up to me. And although the kitchen isn't updated, it seems like it would still show well with the amount of space and cabinets you've got. 

formerlyGDaisy09

hmmm this is tricky. 

so if I have this right you'd be potentially spending $5K to maybe get another $5-10K when you sell (so breaking even or making $5K). the cost is 3-4 months on the market, and potentially pricing out some buyers. and your break-even price on the house is then $85K?

How much of a rush are you in to sell? meaning can you afford the 3-4 month constuction period and then another 6 months of the house being on the market?

I know your financial situation is drastically different from what it was when you bought this house, and I'm sure you're planning to stay debt free...are you able to buy the kind of house you want without first selling this one? or would you be looking at some kind of rental situation until this one sells?

julieanne912

I would go ahead and do the work, especially since you don't have a mortgage so you don't have to worry about say, paying rent or mortgage in your new location, along with paying the mortgage in your old location while you're doing the work.  Buyers these days are so used to seeing HGTV and Pinterest homes, that they want light and bright, especially in kitchens.  Painting your cabinets white and getting rid of the dated countertops will make your kitchen look bigger and of course more modern.

I would also change the light fixture to something more chandeliery.  Doesn't have to be expensive but it'll dress it up even more.  

I've also mentioned this in another thread, but doing low-cost updates like that also add a non-direct value add... meaning, you may not see a direct dollar amount in return, but it can help your home to sell faster, especially if buyers have a decent amount of homes to choose from in that price range.  

brij2006

@simplyelise It's a wonderful change.  They're talking numbers this week, and it may make it possible for me to come home 1-2 days/week.  We are excited about the opportunity and him getting rid of his 1 hour commute, but are nervous because it means selling the house we have made our home.

This is what we get for finally finishing things in the house.  The living room is finished, we just got the carpet installed 2 weeks ago, just in time to put it on the market I guess.

brij2006

@formerlyGdaisy09  If our house was sold before we bought another one (or was at least under contract), it would give us a lot more options and buying power.  We have enough cash to possibly buy the next one, but it will be close depending on what we find.  Having the cash from the sale of our current house will make things much easier.

We can also easily still have H commute too and from his job for a few more months.  We actually have quite a few more things we would have to button up before we can put our house on the market.  So it would at least be 3 months before those things are done anyways.  This would just probably add another month or 2 to that timeline as well.

Numbers wise, we would put $5k in to make $5-10k.  Like @julieanne912 said, I also feel like our house would probably sell better and quicker at the higher price if the kitchen were slightly updated.  

I can actually probably do most of this myself.  Painting the cabinets, I can definitely do.  But we need a cabinet made to put above the refrigerator, another one made to put above the stove and mount the microwave (we have the micro, it's just on the counter), and there is no trim, door jams, or end caps in there now.  So all of those things need done anyways before we can even list it.  

My dad is a farmer and is quite the handy man.  He built our shed for us this past summer.  So I know he could switch out the counter tops and do the trim during his down time this winter.

short+sassy

That's a tough one.  It's a shame improving the kitchen some wouldn't increase the value more than that.  Normally, I'd say don't spend the time...but especially if your market would be limited...it sounds like it would be worth it just for the show factor.  You know what they say, "Kitchens sell houses."

I am also a big fan of higher end looking hardware.  It's a small cost, relatively speaking, that can add a lot of pizzazz.

blondie42107

Have you had a real estate agent do a walk through?

We had one do a walk through of our home in June. Things we thought we should do he disagreed with (his reasoning made perfect sense, we just weren't looking at things that way). Our agent also broke down the numbers of estimated sale price (he brought a stack of comps), costs, and bottom line number of approx what we would walk away with.

We used a Rustolium cabinet transformation kit in our bathroom and it made a huge difference for minimal time/energy and pretty cheap! I can't find any pictures on my phone but we went from builders grade oak to the chocolate stain and love it!

Here's a screen shot from Pinterest. Very similar to ours. We added new pulls to ours as well.

brij2006

@blondie42107 That's our next step.  We want to have an agent walk through and let us know what stuff we really need to finish or update before putting it on the market. 

hoffse

I don't know about painting the cabinets.  I would try to work with them by lightening other parts of the room instead.  If you changed the paint color behind the cabinets that would be much faster, easier, and cheaper.  Bonus points if you installed a back-splash.  That takes a few hours and would be maybe $100.  

Thing is, if you don't have cabinets professionally painted (with that kind of paint they use in a shop that has explosive fumes), the cabinets themselves can develop this sticky quality to them, which makes using them a PITA.  It's also an enormous amount of work to do yourself, since you would have to sand and prime first with that wood color.  Seriously, it takes many coats to do it right, and you have disassemble all the doors and everything.  It could take you days to do properly.

H and I passed on any house that had cabinets already painted, because we knew we would have to live with what we had for some period of time, and I didn't want to deal with sticky/ugly cabinets while waiting to update the kitchen ourselves.  We saw quite a few houses where the owners had done a DIY paint job to "update" their cabinets, and I could usually tell it was a DIY job from across the room the minute I walked in.  Most people just aren't as precise as you need to be or they don't want to take the time to do all the necessary coats, and many use the wrong kind of paint (hence the stickiness). 

I would change the purple wall color to something lighter, do a nice tile backsplash, swap out the counter tops, change the hardware, and call it a day.  If you're feeling really motivated, change the wall color in the rest of the room too so the whole room doesn't register brown. Add some inexpensive rugs and a curtain to give it a pop of color.  All of that combined would probably take you less time and frustration than just painting the cabinets. 

As for adding cabinets elsewhere, I would personally go with some floating shelves or a decorative pot rack type thing over the stove.  I wouldn't bother putting something over the fridge because it's hard to get into those cabinets anyway.  I definitely would not pay to have cabinets built that match the current ones already there.  There's a good chance that whoever buys the house will remodel the kitchen to their tastes anyway, and the only way you get a deal on custom built cabinets is by having your cabinet guy do a bunch all at once.  If you pay for just a couple of them, the price per cabinet will be outrageous.

julieanne912

I agree that having a special cabinet built for above the fridge probably isn't necessary.  I do like the idea of doing one over the stove with the microwave in it, because that'll help tie the stove into the rest of the kitchen... it's a little awkward looking right now.  It shouldn't cost a lot to do since it probably won't need any doors on it... could just do microwave and then open shelving above it, or maybe a wine rack in it.  

brij2006

Well for the cabinet, FIL can build one and had planned to anyways.  We already have the materials for it, I would just either need to stain it to match the rest of the cabinets or paint it.

Our plans for above the fridge was a wine rack type cabinet.  The access to the plumbing in the upstairs bathroom is there, and we wanted to do something that still made that accessible. 

But I do like the idea of just trying to lighten up the backsplash and maybe painting the rest of the room a non-brown tone color.  I can easily knock that out in a day. 

formerlyGDaisy09

I think @hoffse makes a good point about updating the walls, rather than the cabinets, those cabinets are going to be a beast of a project to do properly, and brightening up with walls can go a long way. 

You might also consider installing some LED track lighting to brighten things up a bit. We did this in our kitchen, replacing a light fixture similar to yours, and the difference was amazing! 

a pot rack over the stove would also look nice (though think about oil/splatter with whatever goes on the pot rack). another thing to consider is that the french-door fridges, like ours, are becoming more and more popular, they are taller than a standard fridge, we actually had to take out the cabinet that was over the fridge for the fridge to fit. It could cost you quite a bit of money to get matching cabinets over the fridge, and especially where your fridge is sort-of in a seperate space from your cabinets, I don't think it looks unfinished without the cabinet over it. 

hoffse

julieanne912 said:

I agree that having a special cabinet built for above the fridge probably isn't necessary.  I do like the idea of doing one over the stove with the microwave in it, because that'll help tie the stove into the rest of the kitchen... it's a little awkward looking right now.  It shouldn't cost a lot to do since it probably won't need any doors on it... could just do microwave and then open shelving above it, or maybe a wine rack in it.  

I think the stove needs something above it as well for visual balance.  But you could get the same effect with shelves, where you could put the microwave and some cookbooks or something while showing the house. 

Brij, I assume the microwave you guys currently have is a countertop microwave vs. an over the range microwave?  If so, an OTR microwave is probably going to run you a couple hundred dollars, and it will be pointless unless you actually vent it to the exterior. 

Here are some floating shelf inspiration photos I saved on houzz while remodeling our kitchen:

http://www.houzz.com/photos/1691662/Del-Oro-eclectic-kitchen-santa-barbara

http://www.houzz.com/photos/1860355/Kenilworth-Ave-traditional-kitchen-chicago

http://www.houzz.com/photos/383090/San-Francisco-Kitchen-Redux-contemporary-kitchen-san-francisco

brij2006

@hoffse Our microwave is a OTR, but it's stainless steel (we intended to replace the appliances with a full kitchen remodel).  It's currently just sitting on the counter top, because FIL doesn't finish projects well. 

Another option, we could just take the microwave out for any showings.  I think it would look really tacky and unfinished if we have the OTR microwave sitting on the counter.  Then I could just do some floating shelves above the stove to try and tie it in a bit better. 

abrewer5

I don't think I'd paint the cabinets either. We did in our house and I like the way it looks SO MUCH better but it was a lot of work and in hindsight we probably should have just stained them. We'll be in the house for a few more years so it made us happy. But if I wouldn't do it if I only had a couple months left there. (I wish I could post a picture of our before and after DIY kitchen remodel, but I can't send it from my phone to my computer because I have no service at work)

I think a lighter paint color or backsplash and also adding some sort of shelf above the stove to tie it all together would be a good idea. Especially if your H can build it and you have the supplies.

I wouldn't put a ton of money into the kitchen if you might only break even on it because who knows if the people who buy will even like what you do, and they might change it anyway. If you end up getting a new counter I would suggest going with a neutral tone that would fit different peoples' tastes.

julieanne912

About the microwave... a buyer who is paying a premium price for a house (which it sounds like your house is for your area), and sees a microwave sitting on the counter, might side eye that a little bit.  Same with not having a microwave at all.  Again, this isn't about the actual functionality... it's all about how a buyer perceives the house when looking at it for 20 or 30 minutes.  Having a microwave hung above the stove makes the kitchen look more finished.  Also, not having it vent to the outside isn't that unusual... in fact my new house is my first one ever where I have an outside vent instead of a recirculating one! 

I do agree doing something to gussy up the backsplash isn't a bad idea either.  You could even take these: http://www.amazon.com/Discounted-Ceiling-Tiles-205-Overlaping/dp/B000N8QQIY  (but in silver) and put them up as your backsplash.  Helps tie in the Victorian house style to what is otherwise an ordinary kitchen.  Again, this is not a long term solution, but one that will make the home more appealing to buyers.  

formerlyGDaisy09

abrewer5 said:

I don't think I'd paint the cabinets either. We did in our house and I like the way it looks SO MUCH better but it was a lot of work and in hindsight we probably should have just stained them. We'll be in the house for a few more years so it made us happy. But if I wouldn't do it if I only had a couple months left there. (I wish I could post a picture of our before and after DIY kitchen remodel, but I can't send it from my phone to my computer because I have no service at work)

I think a lighter paint color or backsplash and also adding some sort of shelf above the stove to tie it all together would be a good idea. Especially if your H can build it and you have the supplies.

I wouldn't put a ton of money into the kitchen if you might only break even on it because who knows if the people who buy will even like what you do, and they might change it anyway. If you end up getting a new counter I would suggest going with a neutral tone that would fit different peoples' tastes.

+1 when we bought our house our counters were this orangy-red color...new counters is no where near the top of our hit-list for house projects, but I did manage to find a $75 kit to paint the counters so I at least didn't have to look at the matte-red counters every day. 

hoffse

brij2006 said:

@hoffse Our microwave is a OTR, but it's stainless steel (we intended to replace the appliances with a full kitchen remodel).  It's currently just sitting on the counter top, because FIL doesn't finish projects well. 

Another option, we could just take the microwave out for any showings.  I think it would look really tacky and unfinished if we have the OTR microwave sitting on the counter.  Then I could just do some floating shelves above the stove to try and tie it in a bit better. 

Ugh that's harder if you have an OTR already.  To be honest, I would probably try to return it (even if just for store credit) and buy a smaller countertop microwave that would look fine on a shelf.  You can easily find them for under $100. 

I think you're right than an OTR just sitting out would look weird.  To be honest, I probably wouldn't notice if I saw a house where the microwave was missing, but I have no idea if other people would notice or not.  I kind of despise how microwaves look to begin with, and if our kitchen had been bigger I would have hidden ours in a pantry or something. Ours ended up going over the stove because it was the best place for it with our kitchen layout, and it's literally the only thing about our kitchen design that I really dislike.

abrewer5

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

abrewer5 said:

I don't think I'd paint the cabinets either. We did in our house and I like the way it looks SO MUCH better but it was a lot of work and in hindsight we probably should have just stained them. We'll be in the house for a few more years so it made us happy. But if I wouldn't do it if I only had a couple months left there. (I wish I could post a picture of our before and after DIY kitchen remodel, but I can't send it from my phone to my computer because I have no service at work)

I think a lighter paint color or backsplash and also adding some sort of shelf above the stove to tie it all together would be a good idea. Especially if your H can build it and you have the supplies.

I wouldn't put a ton of money into the kitchen if you might only break even on it because who knows if the people who buy will even like what you do, and they might change it anyway. If you end up getting a new counter I would suggest going with a neutral tone that would fit different peoples' tastes.

+1 when we bought our house our counters were this orangy-red color...new counters is no where near the top of our hit-list for house projects, but I did manage to find a $75 kit to paint the counters so I at least didn't have to look at the matte-red counters every day. 

I feel ya! Ours were hunter green... we ended up getting a counter paint that made them black (it was supposed to be speckled but didn't quite work right) I would take that over the hunter green any day. We got granite last year after our tax return came back and I love it!

short+sassy

julieanne912 said:

About the microwave... a buyer who is paying a premium price for a house (which it sounds like your house is for your area), and sees a microwave sitting on the counter, might side eye that a little bit.  Same with not having a microwave at all.  Again, this isn't about the actual functionality... it's all about how a buyer perceives the house when looking at it for 20 or 30 minutes.  Having a microwave hung above the stove makes the kitchen look more finished.  Also, not having it vent to the outside isn't that unusual... in fact my new house is my first one ever where I have an outside vent instead of a recirculating one! 

I do agree doing something to gussy up the backsplash isn't a bad idea either.  You could even take these: http://www.amazon.com/Discounted-Ceiling-Tiles-205-Overlaping/dp/B000N8QQIY  (but in silver) and put them up as your backsplash.  Helps tie in the Victorian house style to what is otherwise an ordinary kitchen.  Again, this is not a long term solution, but one that will make the home more appealing to buyers.  

Oh! Oh! Oh!  We put something almost exactly like that as the backsplash in the rental unit of my house.  It's not quite done in this picture, but this will give you an idea of what that looks like.

We LOVE the way it looks!  My H installed it himself.  When I have showings, half the prospective tenants positively comment on it.  It's very pretty and eye catching (if I do say so myself, lol).

formerlyGDaisy09

abrewer5 said:

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

abrewer5 said:

I don't think I'd paint the cabinets either. We did in our house and I like the way it looks SO MUCH better but it was a lot of work and in hindsight we probably should have just stained them. We'll be in the house for a few more years so it made us happy. But if I wouldn't do it if I only had a couple months left there. (I wish I could post a picture of our before and after DIY kitchen remodel, but I can't send it from my phone to my computer because I have no service at work)

I think a lighter paint color or backsplash and also adding some sort of shelf above the stove to tie it all together would be a good idea. Especially if your H can build it and you have the supplies.

I wouldn't put a ton of money into the kitchen if you might only break even on it because who knows if the people who buy will even like what you do, and they might change it anyway. If you end up getting a new counter I would suggest going with a neutral tone that would fit different peoples' tastes.

+1 when we bought our house our counters were this orangy-red color...new counters is no where near the top of our hit-list for house projects, but I did manage to find a $75 kit to paint the counters so I at least didn't have to look at the matte-red counters every day. 

I feel ya! Ours were hunter green... we ended up getting a counter paint that made them black (it was supposed to be speckled but didn't quite work right) I would take that over the hunter green any day. We got granite last year after our tax return came back and I love it!

the kit I found is suppose to look like granite, I don't know that it would ever pass as real granie, but it is a million times better than the red color, and "hides" crumbs a little bit, with the matte counter I was literally cleaning the counter 4-5 times a day because the smallest crumbs stood out. I'd love to put granite in, but this isn't our forever house, so I'm trying to hold-out on that kind of big upgrade. 

vlagrl29

I would not personally I think it looks fine.  btw I like your wine sign

cbee817

I definitely agree with @hoffse on this. Especially if the cabinets are real wood, someone could always stain them darker/whitewash if they wanted to. I think painting the walls, adding a backsplash, new counters, and hardware will make a world of difference. 

Sounds really exciting and a great opportunity for you and your family!

als1982

Can you list at current value but offer a buyer's incentive in the form of $5,000 to update it to their liking? I think renovations are very specific to individual taste, and if I came into a home and saw laminate counter tops and painted cabinets but a renovated price tag, I'd be pretty turned off.

brij2006

@als1982 Our area is very low key when it comes to upgrades.  By very low key, I mean that people think you're rich if you have anything but laminate counter tops.  So yeah, just giving it an overall updated face lift will make someone want it more.  I don't really think there would be any use or reason to give a credit.  It's common to see kitchens like this in 90% of the houses on the market around here.  But updating it would help us to get the higher end of our price. 

dragonstarjk

I wouldn't put the effort/money into redoing the cabinets either.  I think they kind of  have a rustic, mission-style look, and you could embrace that with new paint, hardware, etc.  I find it amazing what even having new cabinet hardware can do to the look of a kitchen.

Some paint, new hardware, etc. and keeping it under $1000 is what I would want to do.

Also, I totally understand the dilemma of free-standing appliances.  Our fridge and oven both hang out by themselves like that and it drives me crazy!

short+sassy

dragonstarjk said:

I wouldn't put the effort/money into redoing the cabinets either.  I think they kind of  have a rustic, mission-style look, and you could embrace that with new paint, hardware, etc.  I find it amazing what even having new cabinet hardware can do to the look of a kitchen.

Some paint, new hardware, etc. and keeping it under $1000 is what I would want to do.

Also, I totally understand the dilemma of free-standing appliances.  Our fridge and oven both hang out by themselves like that and it drives me crazy!

Me three.  But what really drives me crazy is the ONLY place to put my fridge is in front of the only window.  Blocks my window, argh, so lame.  It's a fairly small kitchen and if we put it anywhere else, it will partially block a doorway.

Erikan73

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Erikan73

I would leave the counter tops alone and just paint the cabinets white. Painting the cabinets will brighten up the kitchen and make it seem more updated. I can't get a good look at the handles & knobs, but depending on what those look like, you may want to change those out to. I think white cabinets would also help with the white fridge & dishwasher because so many people look for stainless these days. If the cabinets are white, the appliances blend in more. Right now that's one of the first things my eye goes to because they are bright compared to their surroundings.

omgladypirate

Keep in mind that if you update the counter tops but keep the old cabinets, someone looking to update the kitchen is going to get rid of the new counters when they get new cabinets anyway.

I would paint the cabinets and do other small updates to make it lighter, brighter, and look a little bigger. Paint isn't an ideal cabinet choice for most, but may make the kitchen more "livable" until the buyer can do the updates they want to do with the kitchen. Kitchen tastes are so specific that I'd be careful sinking a lot of money into something you can't get a good return on.