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Who won?

I can't figure it out.  I don't think there were any strong winners or losers.  I also don't think there were any super strong sound bites.  They all did fine I guess.

If Trump got shot into space, I'd be cool with that.

Re: Who won?

  • I just clicked the link and there was no mention of Fiorina (sp?).  That seems weird.  But I was totally cracking up at his mentioning the "uniform" at the end of the article.  I didn't watch the debates, but was reading about them this morning.  And that was the first thing I noticed when I saw a pic of the group all standing on stage.  With Fiorina in a red dress to match the ties.

    That seemed to be the consensus I picked up reading articles and forums.  No clear winners/losers.  Bush and Rubio did better than usual and set themselves apart a bit more, but its too late for Bush anyway.  Fiorina, as usual, was well spoken and had one of the better performances...but nothing astounding and nothing that will help her gain enough ground.

    I feel like, with so many candidates still in the race, the poll numbers might start shifting dramatically as the candidates start dropping out.  There are just so many right now, it seems like support for any one candidate is diluted.


  • I don't understand why Rubio and Cruz kept attacking each other. Can somebody fill me in more on the Gang of 8 and the whole thing with the metadata?

    I did think it was need how Rubio slid in that remark about what the Triad is. It made it clear Trump didn't know what he was talking about.

    Fiorina impressed me. But, she always does.

    Paul, Kasich, and Bush need to just go away. Along with Trump.

    But what was that alliance between Cruz and Trump at the end?

  • When people drop out after NH, there will HUGE shifts in polls... and I'm confident the numbers will not go towards Trump.  
  • I don't understand why Rubio and Cruz kept attacking each other. Can somebody fill me in more on the Gang of 8 and the whole thing with the metadata?

    I did think it was need how Rubio slid in that remark about what the Triad is. It made it clear Trump didn't know what he was talking about.

    Fiorina impressed me. But, she always does.

    Paul, Kasich, and Bush need to just go away. Along with Trump.

    But what was that alliance between Cruz and Trump at the end?

    Gang of 8 were 8 senators who tried to pass new immigration legislation.  Part of that legislation included a version of amnesty.  It's the one thing that continues to haunt Rubio.

    Metadata program was the mass bank of phone data that the government has had since 911.  It was part of the Patriot Act I believe.  I can understand both sides of this, but the reality is that while there was a data base of phone conversations, it took a very long process that went through the courts to be able to access that database.  Some people argue this was spying on Americans and that there was possibility to abuse the system.  Others argue that the system was outdated as it mostly consisted of landlines.  Even others argue that this is a necessary system that had safe guards in place to prevent abuses by the government.  Now that program is over and they came up with some type of compromise where phone companies will be holding the data themselves.  I'm not clear about the details of the new system. 
  • I don't understand why Rubio and Cruz kept attacking each other. Can somebody fill me in more on the Gang of 8 and the whole thing with the metadata?

    I did think it was need how Rubio slid in that remark about what the Triad is. It made it clear Trump didn't know what he was talking about.

    Fiorina impressed me. But, she always does.

    Paul, Kasich, and Bush need to just go away. Along with Trump.

    But what was that alliance between Cruz and Trump at the end?

    Also, apparently Rubio and Cruz have had issues since they were both elected.  Personally, they don't get along.  Cruz has trouble getting along with tons of people apparently, which is one of my main concerns about him being president.  A ton of analysts believe the contest will come down to Rubio vs. Cruz, which could be interesting.

    Cruz and Trump... I'm getting pissed of at Cruz at this point because I thought despite my feelings about his attitude, that he was a morally clear politician, but he's so clearly trying to not piss off Trump supporters so he can pick them up when Trump self-destructs.  He's doing the same with Paul supporters.  Those are two very different types of voters.  It just annoys me for some reason.




  • I don't understand why Rubio and Cruz kept attacking each other. Can somebody fill me in more on the Gang of 8 and the whole thing with the metadata?

    I did think it was need how Rubio slid in that remark about what the Triad is. It made it clear Trump didn't know what he was talking about.

    Fiorina impressed me. But, she always does.

    Paul, Kasich, and Bush need to just go away. Along with Trump.

    But what was that alliance between Cruz and Trump at the end?

    Gang of 8 were 8 senators who tried to pass new immigration legislation.  Part of that legislation included a version of amnesty.  It's the one thing that continues to haunt Rubio.

    Metadata program was the mass bank of phone data that the government has had since 911.  It was part of the Patriot Act I believe.  I can understand both sides of this, but the reality is that while there was a data base of phone conversations, it took a very long process that went through the courts to be able to access that database.  Some people argue this was spying on Americans and that there was possibility to abuse the system.  Others argue that the system was outdated as it mostly consisted of landlines.  Even others argue that this is a necessary system that had safe guards in place to prevent abuses by the government.  Now that program is over and they came up with some type of compromise where phone companies will be holding the data themselves.  I'm not clear about the details of the new system. 

    I do not want to subvert the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. But, the fundamental question is, what happens when the enemies of the State are laying in wait, within the nation's own borders and using the nation's utilities of phone and Internet to do their evil work? I bet the founding fathers never could have imagined that!

    There has to be some middle ground by which we can protect the individual and rights to privacy and work to root out the enemies here.

    And, I DO NOT think the Constitution or Bill of Rights needs to be altered easily with the times to suit public OPINION, but we do really need allowances to hunt down the evil in the land. It's true, we nee dot monitor land lines and cell phones or any device people use to communicate, but that does not mean our rights need to evaporate.

    It's like enhanced security at airports. We go through the annoying inconveniences of searches and pat downs sometimes because people see we live in a world that's not safe all the time. Why should phones be any different?

    Plus, we all need to remember that if the government wants data on any of us, they will get it and they will get it easily. So no body is truly "private." But, any program that gives them some nimbleness and ease to hunt terrorists or other criminals = I'm all for that.

  • It's a very fine line.  I personally have a difficult time with these issues.  I feel that there is sometimes a need for these types of programs, but I'm a HUGE believer in the fundamentals of the Constitution.  Is it possible to keep the government completely out of our private lives while protecting us in the modern world?  I guess this is how I feel: As long as we keep having this debate, we can never go too far astray on either side.  The debate is what keeps us somewhere in the middle.   
  • I have a friend on FB that has posted some things about Rand Paul on the debate last night.  I missed it but sometimes Paul makes sense to me more than any of the others.
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • vlagrl29 said:
    I have a friend on FB that has posted some things about Rand Paul on the debate last night.  I missed it but sometimes Paul makes sense to me more than any of the others.
    I often agree with Paul.  He just doesn't have a prayer and he's so far to one side... that he wouldn't be the greatest president.  I think he's a fantastic senator and that's the job he should continue to have.  We need him fighting the good fight in the senate, not in the oval office.  
  • vlagrl29 said:
    I have a friend on FB that has posted some things about Rand Paul on the debate last night.  I missed it but sometimes Paul makes sense to me more than any of the others.
    I often agree with Paul.  He just doesn't have a prayer and he's so far to one side... that he wouldn't be the greatest president.  I think he's a fantastic senator and that's the job he should continue to have.  We need him fighting the good fight in the senate, not in the oval office.  
    I suppose but isn't that what the R's want - more of a republican than Romney was?  Thats apparently why 2 million didn't vote last time.  Although some of Pauls beliefs aren't along the lines of Rs but I kinda like him.  Its too bad because I would prefer him to be in the lead than Trump. Seems like it will all be fixed anyways.
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • I agree that there was no clear winners. Here's some takeaways I got:

    -Rubio and Cruz are more evenly matched, but Rubio is definitely more electable. Cruz is too far right. Cruz also seems sleazy to me. If you look at all the fact-checkers, he had the most deceitful statements. The only time Rubio was mentioned in the fact checkers was to point out that Cruz and Rubio were disagreeing over different parts of the same bill. Also, did you see Rubio's face when Cruz said that he never and doesn't intend to give legal status to any undocumented people? I totally cracked up, because although it haunts Rubio in the primaries, if he makes it to the general election, it will be a strength.

    -That question to Carson about if he would be OK ordering attacks that would kill children, was totally unfair. He handled it great, though. His moment of silence rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed like he was using the attacks to get him attention, which I dislike.

    -I decided Bush would make an excellent president. He's totally unelectable though.

    -I don't like Paul. Before this election, I didn't really know what libertarianism was. My DH explained it to me, and now everything he says makes so much more sense from his point of view. I really don't agree with him though.

    -I also thought that one of Rubio's greatest moments was sliding in to explain the triad. Bush kept trying to attack Trump directly, but Rubio's in the moment little indirect attack was way better in my opinion.

  • I know it's unpopular to say, but I loved G.W.  I didn't agree with a lot of what he did, particularly his financial policies, but man, that was a classy president.  I miss having a president with a sense of dignity and a  lack of ego.  

    nkjacobsma You really don't agree with libertarian concepts?  I consider myself to be a libertarian for the most part (just not when it comes to national security).  I believe in limited government interference in regards to both economic and social issues.  I actually feel like many people lean towards libertarian ideals, but don't know it. 
  • @Bluebird - I wouldn't say I disagree with everything libertarianism, and I would say I'm not a fan of big government like it has become. But some things, like separation of education and state and a lot of their ideas about foreign affairs I don't agree with. I believe in a balance in government interference, but don't think we have that balance now.
  • I know it's unpopular to say, but I loved G.W.  I didn't agree with a lot of what he did, particularly his financial policies, but man, that was a classy president.  I miss having a president with a sense of dignity and a  lack of ego.  

    nkjacobsma You really don't agree with libertarian concepts?  I consider myself to be a libertarian for the most part (just not when it comes to national security).  I believe in limited government interference in regards to both economic and social issues.  I actually feel like many people lean towards libertarian ideals, but don't know it. 

    Aaahhh...I just can't help myself to say that I respectfully disagree.  I absolutely despise him, admittedly for somewhat personal reasons.  I live in NOLA and was living here during Hurricane Katrina (though I evacuated).  I felt utterly betrayed that, in one of the worst national disasters of our nation's history, he took FOUR days before he even bothered to visit any of the affected regions.  Even 10 years later, I still find it just shocking and utterly reprehensible.

    And why did he take 4 days?  Was it because he was brokering peace agreements in the Middle East like Carter?  Or opening trade with China like Nixon?  No, he was on vacation in next door Texas and having a birthday party.

    I wouldn't have even expected him to work miracles or even do anything.  But that kind of national tragedy at least deserves the leader of our country to SHOW UP.  Even if it was just to the closest safe place, like Baton Rouge, LA or Jackson, MS.

    Okay, rant over!  Carry on with talk about the debates :).

  • @Bluebird - I wouldn't say I disagree with everything libertarianism, and I would say I'm not a fan of big government like it has become. But some things, like separation of education and state and a lot of their ideas about foreign affairs I don't agree with. I believe in a balance in government interference, but don't think we have that balance now.
    Separation of education?  They support abolishing the federal department of education and leaving education 100% up to the states like it used to be, but I haven't heard libertarians discuss completely doing away with public education.  I wouldn't support.  I completely disagree with the libertarian mantra about foreign policy. 
  • short+sassy  I could see how that would be something you personally couldn't forget.  Like I said, I didn't always agree with his decisions, I still liked a lot about him.  I'm pretty alone in feeling that way, I realize.
  • I agree that there was no clear winners. Here's some takeaways I got:

    -Rubio and Cruz are more evenly matched, but Rubio is definitely more electable. Cruz is too far right. Cruz also seems sleazy to me. If you look at all the fact-checkers, he had the most deceitful statements. The only time Rubio was mentioned in the fact checkers was to point out that Cruz and Rubio were disagreeing over different parts of the same bill. Also, did you see Rubio's face when Cruz said that he never and doesn't intend to give legal status to any undocumented people? I totally cracked up, because although it haunts Rubio in the primaries, if he makes it to the general election, it will be a strength.

    -That question to Carson about if he would be OK ordering attacks that would kill children, was totally unfair. He handled it great, though. His moment of silence rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed like he was using the attacks to get him attention, which I dislike.

    -I decided Bush would make an excellent president. He's totally unelectable though.

    -I don't like Paul. Before this election, I didn't really know what libertarianism was. My DH explained it to me, and now everything he says makes so much more sense from his point of view. I really don't agree with him though.

    -I also thought that one of Rubio's greatest moments was sliding in to explain the triad. Bush kept trying to attack Trump directly, but Rubio's in the moment little indirect attack was way better in my opinion.

    I watched a 30 minute interview on Louder with Crowder of Cruz. I actually thought he was pretty decent there and I felt like I got to know him a bit better.

    http://louderwithcrowder.com/ted-cruz-like-youve-never-seen-throws-gauntlet-on-refugees/

    I don't ever watch Crowder - don't know a lot about him, and happened to stumble upon this interview a few weeks ago when I was looking at Cruz's FB page.

  • I agree that there was no clear winners. Here's some takeaways I got:

    -Rubio and Cruz are more evenly matched, but Rubio is definitely more electable. Cruz is too far right. Cruz also seems sleazy to me. If you look at all the fact-checkers, he had the most deceitful statements. The only time Rubio was mentioned in the fact checkers was to point out that Cruz and Rubio were disagreeing over different parts of the same bill. Also, did you see Rubio's face when Cruz said that he never and doesn't intend to give legal status to any undocumented people? I totally cracked up, because although it haunts Rubio in the primaries, if he makes it to the general election, it will be a strength.

    -That question to Carson about if he would be OK ordering attacks that would kill children, was totally unfair. He handled it great, though. His moment of silence rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed like he was using the attacks to get him attention, which I dislike.

    -I decided Bush would make an excellent president. He's totally unelectable though.

    -I don't like Paul. Before this election, I didn't really know what libertarianism was. My DH explained it to me, and now everything he says makes so much more sense from his point of view. I really don't agree with him though.

    -I also thought that one of Rubio's greatest moments was sliding in to explain the triad. Bush kept trying to attack Trump directly, but Rubio's in the moment little indirect attack was way better in my opinion.

    Carson bolded: I agree with you on the ordering of attacks. It's common sense that as POTUS anybody has to make tough calls, which cost American and/or other lives. He did handle it well. On the flip side, though of you, I did like his moment of silence. Carson is very much about "the people" and he didn't really even want to run for POTUS. He has said all along that so many people encouraged him to do so that he decided to postpone his "real" retirement. I think his moment was nice to recognize the pain that Americans feel when some of our own are lost to a foreign enemy. It's not Carson's style to "get attention." So him doing that silent moment was truly just his genuine nature.
  • RE: Carson moment of silence

    It annoyed me too.  He seems incredibly self-righteous and that bothers me.


  • RE: Carson moment of silence

    It annoyed me too.  He seems incredibly self-righteous and that bothers me.


    He's just too quite for me - I think of him like Mr Rodgers - A nice guy with a gentle voice that makes everything better.  
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • On Carson- @MommyLiberty, I get what you are saying. I guess I just feel like after the attack, politicians on both sides started using it for their political agendas. When he said this, I was just like, "Oh, here's the politicians bringing this up again."

  • On Carson- @MommyLiberty, I get what you are saying. I guess I just feel like after the attack, politicians on both sides started using it for their political agendas. When he said this, I was just like, "Oh, here's the politicians bringing this up again."

    Maybe we are all just too jaded? Me included.
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