Divorcing over in-laws??

sarahswim08

    DH and I have been married a little over 6 years, together for 8. We started having problems…couldn’t get through a day without fighting about every little thing. It got to be too much and we separated - I moved out around August last year. We had time apart and were continuing to have ups and downs but we started going to counseling in November and it was beginning to help. But many of our issues that came up revolved around his family. His parents are divorced and his father re-married, however, they are all very close. I never really felt like his family liked me from the beginning - hard to explain but just that feeling you get when people talk to you. Sometimes they would be condescending to me in the way they talked and it was kind of awkward to be around them sometimes. They were always argumentative about everything. They are the kind of people who refuse to believe they could ever be wrong about anything. DH always assured me that they did like me so I tried to believe him.
    Finally, the counselor suggested we have his family in so we could all talk about the issues and get everything out in the open. Well, his father and step-mom yelled and screamed at me, said some very mean and hurtful things to me. No one stood up for me and after being verbally abused by his dad and step-mom, I ended up walking out of the session. DH acknowledges that their behavior was out of line and has even said that all of his parents “felt bad for me” for being put in that situation (even though they are the ones who put me in it). I told DH I don’t want anything to do with his dad and step-mom anymore. He wanted me to move back in next month but now things are just awful because his family is basically torn apart because he is with me. His mom says she won’t come to holiday things we hold at our house if the dad and step-mom aren’t invited (which I made clear to DH that they aren’t). I don’t think they will ever be truly sorry because that is just the kind of people they are. His dad is now sending DH emails saying he told him he was going to speak his mind and say how he felt because that’s what DH said to do and continues saying “I did what you asked and you are never to be heard from again. Thanks a lot, your advice sucks.” This only 1 week after DH went to him (after the therapy session) and told him he was going to focus and me and him and making our marriage work and wouldn’t be spending weekends with him anymore because he was upset by the things he said/did during the session.
    I thought things were at least better between DH and I until yesterday when his mom told him she wanted to talk. I wasn’t there so obviously don’t know everything that was said but now she is upset because she’s “in the middle” so to speak. She told DH she understands why I don’t want to be around the dad/step-mom but that he should still be able to spend time with them. She also told him "You can't divorce your family". While this is true, I feel like this is basically telling him his only option is to divorce me. I just don’t feel comfortable for DH to just go on with their relationship when they were so mean and disrespectful to me. Honestly, I don’t think I will ever forgive his dad/step-mom and I don’t want them in my life. It’s not exactly fair to have DH lose his family because of me, especially when we are still working out our other problems. But I can’t get over this. I don’t know what to do… anyone have issues with their in-laws like this? Is it possible to have a strong marriage when I can’t along with my in-laws who he is super close to? I don’t know if I should just divorce him so he can keep his family and find someone else who maybe gets along better with them?? I’m just lost.

Disneygeek77

This is what I would do.

1. Get a new counselor.  How on earth did the counselor let it get to that point that they were saying those things about you ?

2. Be completely honest with you husband.    Look him straight in the eye and say " Look buddy, I'm not going to live the rest of my life like this, nor should I have to.  I am holding you accountable to the promises you made to me on our wedding day.  On that day you promised to put me above all others.  All others includes your dad and step mom.  I come before them.  I am not equal to them, I come before them.  Likewise, you come before my parents and other family.  You are not equal to them, you come before them.  The only way this marriage is going to work is when you choose my happiness over that of your parent's because your dad  is making it so we can't both me happy.  You will have to choose.  If you honestly don't think you can put my happiness and my desires and my wants before those of your dad's, then please let me be free to find someone that will."

3.  If he says he will put you first, then hold him to it.  Make sure it isn't just blowing smoke up your butt.  He will have to show you with his actions.  

4.  Yes you can "divorce " your family.  I know people that cut their parents or in laws out of their lives until they could prove that they civil and polite to their spouse.

ETA :   You bet your ass if my ILS yelled and disrespected me I would expect my husband to stand by me until they apologized.  

short+sassy

Your H does need to put you first and, if that means you won't be around dad/step-mom, than he needs to fully accept and support you in that.

With that said, I also don't think it would be right for you to tell him he can't spend time with them.  I'm not saying you are doing that, but I wouldn't blame him for still wanting to have some relationship with his father.  After all, that's his parent.

I'm not really following why your H's mom feels put in the middle.  Even if she still has a good relationship with her ex, so what?  She can have a good relationship with the two of you and still have a cordial relationship with her ex.  If either side starts bad mouthing, she can just say, "EH!!!  Not listening, not getting in the middle, don't tell me."  And, really, I'd think her allegiance would still primarily be with her son...not her ex.  I feel like I'm missing something here, lol.

GilliC

sarahswim08 said:

    DH and I have been married a little over 6 years, together for 8. We started having problems…couldn’t get through a day without fighting about every little thing. It got to be too much and we separated - I moved out around August last year. We had time apart and were continuing to have ups and downs but we started going to counseling in November and it was beginning to help. But many of our issues that came up revolved around his family. His parents are divorced and his father re-married, however, they are all very close. I never really felt like his family liked me from the beginning - hard to explain but just that feeling you get when people talk to you. Sometimes they would be condescending to me in the way they talked and it was kind of awkward to be around them sometimes. They were always argumentative about everything. They are the kind of people who refuse to believe they could ever be wrong about anything. DH always assured me that they did like me so I tried to believe him.
    Finally, the counselor suggested we have his family in so we could all talk about the issues and get everything out in the open. Well, his father and step-mom yelled and screamed at me, said some very mean and hurtful things to me. No one stood up for me and after being verbally abused by his dad and step-mom, I ended up walking out of the session. DH acknowledges that their behavior was out of line and has even said that all of his parents “felt bad for me” for being put in that situation (even though they are the ones who put me in it). I told DH I don’t want anything to do with his dad and step-mom anymore. He wanted me to move back in next month but now things are just awful because his family is basically torn apart because he is with me. His mom says she won’t come to holiday things we hold at our house if the dad and step-mom aren’t invited (which I made clear to DH that they aren’t). I don’t think they will ever be truly sorry because that is just the kind of people they are. His dad is now sending DH emails saying he told him he was going to speak his mind and say how he felt because that’s what DH said to do and continues saying “I did what you asked and you are never to be heard from again. Thanks a lot, your advice sucks.” This only 1 week after DH went to him (after the therapy session) and told him he was going to focus and me and him and making our marriage work and wouldn’t be spending weekends with him anymore because he was upset by the things he said/did during the session.
    I thought things were at least better between DH and I until yesterday when his mom told him she wanted to talk. I wasn’t there so obviously don’t know everything that was said but now she is upset because she’s “in the middle” so to speak. She told DH she understands why I don’t want to be around the dad/step-mom but that he should still be able to spend time with them. She also told him "You can't divorce your family". While this is true, I feel like this is basically telling him his only option is to divorce me. I just don’t feel comfortable for DH to just go on with their relationship when they were so mean and disrespectful to me. Honestly, I don’t think I will ever forgive his dad/step-mom and I don’t want them in my life. It’s not exactly fair to have DH lose his family because of me, especially when we are still working out our other problems. But I can’t get over this. I don’t know what to do… anyone have issues with their in-laws like this? Is it possible to have a strong marriage when I can’t along with my in-laws who he is super close to? I don’t know if I should just divorce him so he can keep his family and find someone else who maybe gets along better with them?? I’m just lost.

What did the counselor say about all this?!!!

sarahswim08 said:

She also told him "You can't divorce your family". While this is true...

This is not true. Sometimes you have to cut ties with family if it's not healthy. My mother said some absolutely horrible things to me in the middle of my divorce, and I realized that I'm happier and healthier if I keep my distance. That said, you can cut contact with your own family, but it has to be your own choice (not your spouse's).

LD1970

My MIL got nasty to me.  My husband stuck up for me, told her to take a hike, and hasn't spoken to her since December 2008.

My mother got nasty to H.  I stuck up for him, told my mother to take a hike, and haven't spoken to her since September 2011.

You absolutely CAN divorce your parents if you need to.

VOR

In the end this is about your DH.  Not his parents.

It’s not exactly fair to have DH lose his family because of me,

It's not because of you.  It's because of them. And if your DH doesn't see that himself and/or doesn't fully tell you that it's them, not you - well, then, this is even MORE of a DH problem.

To what Disney said - you're his wife. You need to come first.  It doesn't sound like that's the case here.  If your DH can't put you first, well, then I feel you have your answer. 

sarahswim08

Disneygeek77: You are right  - I don't want to live the rest of my life this way. It will be a constant struggle for the rest of our lives with his family. Not having him on my side is just going to make things impossible.

Disneygeek77 said:

ETA :   You bet your ass if my ILS yelled and disrespected me I would expect my husband to stand by me until they apologized.  

Would you expect your DH to not talk to them/see them until that happened?? One of my issues is that if they "apologize" I know they won't mean it. They will only being doing it to get DH back in their lives. I told him I don't think they are ever truly going to give me a genuine apology and I'm never going to want them in my life which upset him...for me, they have shown their true colors and that they do not care for me and I don't want people like that in my life. So *if* I am "apologized" to, now I'm the bad person that won't accept the apology and move on.

sarahswim08

GilliC said:

What did the counselor say about all this?!!!


He said they were a "challenge". Honestly, I think he was surprised at how they acted. I would think that adults could sit down and have a discussion without getting to that level but apparently not with them. I don't think he will ever cut his family...he admits his relationship with his father is dysfunctional but since he's his father he won't do anything about the way he treats him. His mom told him "We are your parents, you have to cut us slack because we are your parents". They are used to walking all over him and now that none of them are getting their way they are resenting me and giving him guilt trips about not seeing them.

Disneygeek77

Yes, I would expect my husband to not talk to them until I received a genuine apology.  

As far as if it was truly genuine and not a " I'm sorry you were upset by what I said " kind of apology, well I would have to use my best judgement at the time.  However, I would expect them to be civil and polite from here on out.  I wouldn't expect that I would be best buddies or that I would be their favorite person, all I am asking is that they be civil and polite, that is it.

As far as my husband's conversation with his parents ?  I wouldn't expect him to be violent or scream or yell or name call.  I wouldn't even expect him to raise his voice.  All I would expect is that he calmly  but firmly say something a long the lines of " You are not going to treat my wife that way.  I will not speak or see you until you can give her a sincere apology and start treating her with civility and politeness."

That is a very reasonable request.  Very reasonable.  The ball would be in their court from then on.  If they couldn't muster an apology and treat you with civility, then like VOR said,  they would be keeping themselves from their son, not you.  

Disneygeek77

Do you have your wedding on video ?

sarahswim08

short+sassy said:

Your H does need to put you first and, if that means you won't be around dad/step-mom, than he needs to fully accept and support you in that.

With that said, I also don't think it would be right for you to tell him he can't spend time with them.  I'm not saying you are doing that, but I wouldn't blame him for still wanting to have some relationship with his father.  After all, that's his parent.

I'm not really following why your H's mom feels put in the middle.  Even if she still has a good relationship with her ex, so what?  She can have a good relationship with the two of you and still have a cordial relationship with her ex.  If either side starts bad mouthing, she can just say, "EH!!!  Not listening, not getting in the middle, don't tell me."  And, really, I'd think her allegiance would still primarily be with her son...not her ex.  I feel like I'm missing something here, lol.

Yeah, I was a little confused when DH told me that she wouldn't come to Thanksgiving if they weren't invited. I had/have problems with his mom as well but no where near on the level as his dad/step-mom. I thought we could've worked things out with his mom but after hearing him say some of the things she said to him this weekend I'm not so sure anymore. DH and I were doing better until he had his talk with her. If I had to guess, she feels like she is going to get crap from his dad/step-mom about being with us when we are excluding them (and she is probably right). But I told DH, who cares?? She can make her own decisions. If she doesn't *want* to come then fine but to just not come because they aren't invited?? Stupid.

sarahswim08

Disneygeek77: Thank you...we are going to a counseling session tonight and I'm going to make it clear this is what I need from him.

No wedding video...just photos.

Disneygeek77

Did you have traditional wedding vows ?

sarahswim08

These were our vows to each other:

Sarah, I accept you as you are today. I give you my promise that from this day forward you shall not walk alone. May my heart be your shelter and my arms be your home. I promise to love you, honor you, and to cherish you for all of my days. I make this commitment with all of my love.

Disneygeek77

Was there anything along the lines of " To forsake all others and let no one come between."

sarahswim08

Actually...no. Did not realize this until just now.

Disneygeek77

Ok, this is what I would do.

I would sit him down with your wedding album.   I would then point to the pictures and say "  Were you lying to me here ?"

If you he gives you a confused look, ask him again.  " Were you lying to me ?"

If he says " No " then say, " Well what does ' From this day forward you will not walk alone ' mean ?"

If he doesn't give you a good answer then ask "  Do you think men that truly love, honor and cherish their wives, just sit back and let their fathers verbally abuse them ?"

If he still doesn't give you a good answer then ask "  So were you lying or our wedding day or did you not mean it, because I don't understand if you  truly meant what you said how you could let your father get away with this kind of bad behavior."

sarahswim08

Thank you...The sad reality is that I don't know if he will ever be able to stand up to his parents. This incident has shown me that because his hesitation to defend me and even still he is listening to what his parents say over anything else. Either way, it's difficult for me...I either continue this way and feel alone in the marriage or divorce and still be alone.

Disneygeek77

I am very sorry to hear that.  That must be a terrible position to be in.

I will say this.  A marriage contract is like any other contract.  IF one party doesn't hold up their end, then the other party has every right to end it.  IF you truly believe in your heart that he will never hold up his wedding vows, then I believe it is ok to end things.  As difficult and heartbreaking as it might be, it is ok.  I personally wouldn't stay in a marriage where my husband wouldn't put me first because really what would be the point.  

I know you would be alone either way, but if you were single at least you would have the hope that one day you would meet someone who would treat you the way that you are supposed to be treated.

Again, I'm sorry things have gotten to that point.  Please continue to see a counselor as you have some difficult decisions ahead of you.  Good Luck.

TarponMonoxide

sarahswim08 said:

    DH and I have been married a little over 6 years, together for 8. We started having problems…couldn’t get through a day without fighting about every little thing. It got to be too much and we separated - I moved out around August last year.

This is already bad news. A shaky marriage from the start.

We had time apart and were continuing to have ups and downs but we started going to counseling in November and it was beginning to help. But many of our issues that came up revolved around his family.

Your counselor stinks on ice.

His parents are divorced and his father re-married, however, they are all very close. I never really felt like his family liked me from the beginning - hard to explain but just that feeling you get when people talk to you.

Sometimes they would be condescending to me in the way they talked and it was kind of awkward to be around them sometimes. They were always argumentative about everything.

They are the kind of people who refuse to believe they could ever be wrong about anything. DH always assured me that they did like me so I tried to believe him.

Finally, the counselor suggested we have his family in so we could all talk about the issues and get everything out in the open.

I have NO idea why in the world a counselor would drag a "family" into it -- as my mother used to say, this is Battle Alley.

For your sake -- because his "family" is so negative and caustic and does not make you feel loved or wanted.... maybe take a break from this "marriage" and decide what you want to do.

You will not see them change. They are what they are. And I would hate to have these people as potential grandparents. How sad for you. And how sad for any kiddo.

Well, his father and step-mom yelled and screamed at me, said some very mean and hurtful things to me. No one stood up for me and after being verbally abused by his dad and step-mom, I ended up walking out of the session.

....and out of the marriage" should have been the next sentence. A guy who can't stand up for his wife??? This is the nail -- the final one --- in the coffin.

That counselor didn't boot them?? They ranted at you? Wot is this, the Clay-Liston fight of 1965???? Horrid!!!

He will not change either...and I guess I will catch 10 oceans of shit for again suggesting you consider hitting the road: there was nothing in this for you in the first place -- and I am willing to bet the arguments were happening before you got married. And his shitty family was shitty, before you got married.

There was no sense in marrying him. What is in this FOR YOU?

DH acknowledges that their behavior was out of line and has even said that all of his parents “felt bad for me” for being put in that situation (even though they are the ones who put me in it).

Yippee for him.

I told DH I don’t want anything to do with his dad and step-mom anymore. He wanted me to move back in next month but now things are just awful because his family is basically torn apart because he is with me.

Why are you with him???? YOU are his life, not THEM!!!

His mom says she won’t come to holiday things we hold at our house if the dad and step-mom aren’t invited (which I made clear to DH that they aren’t).

And you are now Carol Brady, refereeing a fight between Marcia and Jan???

Sis, don't further involve yourself in this battle alley.

I don’t think they will ever be truly sorry because that is just the kind of people they are. His dad is now sending DH emails saying he told him he was going to speak his mind and say how he felt because that’s what DH said to do and continues saying “I did what you asked and you are never to be heard from again. Thanks a lot, your advice sucks.” This only 1 week after DH went to him (after the therapy session) and told him he was going to focus and me and him and making our marriage work and wouldn’t be spending weekends with him anymore because he was upset by the things he said/did during the session.

This largesse won't help. This is too much too too late.

I thought things were at least better between DH and I until yesterday when his mom told him she wanted to talk. I wasn’t there so obviously don’t know everything that was said but now she is upset because she’s “in the middle” so to speak. She told DH she understands why I don’t want to be around the dad/step-mom but that he should still be able to spend time with them.

She also told him "You can't divorce your family".

But you sure can divorce an H.


While this is true, I feel like this is basically telling him his only option is to divorce me.

He probably won't even know you are gone. His 3 ring circus parents and relatives are front and center.

All of this -- in your post --- screams them them them them them. Nowhere in here are you the key attraction and main event. This is sad --- don't further involve yourself in this bullshit. Not healthy and not good for you.

I just don’t feel comfortable for DH to just go on with their relationship when they were so mean and disrespectful to me.

Mean and zero respect? You're being treated like road trash!

Honestly, I don’t think I will ever forgive his dad/step-mom and I don’t want them in my life. It’s not exactly fair to have DH lose his family because of me, especially when we are still working out our other problems.

You are his family now, not them --- you keep missing that key factor and so is he.

But I can’t get over this. I don’t know what to do… anyone have issues with their in-laws like this? Is it possible to have a strong marriage when I can’t along with my in-laws who he is super close to? I don’t know if I should just divorce him so he can keep his family and find someone else who maybe gets along better with them?? I’m just lost.

What you need to do:

1-Get a counselor on your own and see that person. Tell them everything you told us, word for word -- and get an honest to God opinion from this counselor. You need someone whose advice is blunt as a rusty machete.

2-You need to get out of there and away from this war zone. If you hang around for much longer, it will deplete whatever self esteem and self confidence you have now. Nobody deserves to be treated like road trash or cursed at or treated deplorably.

3-Decide what kind of a guy your H is, based on the fact he cannot put you first -- he needed to tell them to take a flying fark at the moon the second you were treated so horribly and if that meant to cut them off completely, so be it.

It should not take you but a second to decide he is not worth much.

He isn't by fact of the marriage he permits you to be used by a doormat...and he has zero character. He should be behind you and you and he are "The Family" -- not his disgusting parents.

4-If you are spiritual or worship, see your clergyperson.

Any clergyperson worth his salt will tell you that the key vow is "forsaking all others" -- and you have bee forsaken here big time.

5-Put yourself first.

That's my advice.

You are a nice girl who got immeshed in this wasteland. They are who they are-- his parents and your H -- and they will not change. 

TarponMonoxide

sarahswim08 said:

Thank you...The sad reality is that I don't know if he will ever be able to stand up to his parents. This incident has shown me that because his hesitation to defend me and even still he is listening to what his parents say over anything else. Either way, it's difficult for me...I either continue this way and feel alone in the marriage or divorce and still be alone.

"Divorce and still be alone???"

No, sis....you will be free of these noxious and foul people...and your now-former H included....

And should you choose to show this creep the keys to the road, get counseling for yourself.

With a counselor's help you will break this bond completely, insasmuch as a counselor will show you how NOT to attract a spineless person -- and you'll find yourself a guy who makes you the center of his world.

TarponMonoxide

Disneygeek77 said:

Was there anything along the lines of " To forsake all others and let no one come between."

"Honor you and cherish you" is "forsaking all others!"

And even if they had a wedding where they simply said "I Do" to "Do you take this man" and "Do you take this woman" and those were the only vows ----  wow, it is a GIVEN you put your spouse and partner first!

(and as an aside, there are religions that do not have "vows" per se...Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox marriages have no spoken vows between the bride and the groom!)

This jerk never GOT IT. How pitiful.

Only right and only common sense.

You are not divorcing him because of "the in laws" --- these horrid people. You are leaving him for good because he is NOT husband material. Let that be understood.

Wishing you luck. (personally, I'd get my finances in a row and then when that is done, get him served. Do not even tell him the marriage is over; be out of there and gone once your ducks are in a row and you've retained an attorney)

I am going to spell this out for you too:

IF you do not come first now and there is a horrific crisis -- you are sick, you lose a job, something devastating happens to you or to a kiddo, if one is in the picture --- just how dependable would he be --- and center stage would YOU be???

You do not come first now.

Put yourself first.

Disneygeek77

Going along with what Tarp said, can you depend on him when life gets really tough ?  If this is how he behaves when his dad is an ass to you and his mom is upset over thanksgiving, will he be there when life gets difficult ? Do you think he will be by your side if you get cancer or MS ?  Will he stick by your side if you have a child with severe developmental delays ?

I have shared my story here before.  My husband and I have been through a lot in our married life.  We have been through two job losses, a chronic disease, a miscarriage and the absolute worse; having to bury our first child when she was 4 months old.  She was born premature and with 3 heart defects, a defect in her trachea and a defect in her duodenum.  She spent her entire life in the hospital.  This is something I never ever imagined happening to me.  That is why I am forever grateful that I married a man with strong character.  He was by my side when I thought I was losing my mind to grief.  I remember my anxiety was so bad that I would throw up stomach bile every day and one time almost had a nervous breakdown over a swollen lymphnode.  Oh my, it was such a dark time. But through it all my husband was my stronghold.  We went on to have three healthy children and he is a fantastic father to them.  HE paints my oldest nails.  HE pretends to be Captain Hook when my son wants to play Peter Pan.  HE puts all three of them to bed because he knows I need a break.  He is a blessing to my life and I thank God I had the good sense to marry him.  That whole experience taught me how important character is when choosing a husband because you truly have no idea what life has in store for you.  So again ask yourself, if this is how your husband behaves when life is relatively easy,  will he be there for you when life gets really difficult ?

TarponMonoxide

I can't get over that one --- that counselor should have ended the session  and, thrown those horrible people out of his or her office straightaway when the donnybrook began.

This "professional" let you get shelled, crapped on and permitted this kind of disruption to take place?? Let this turn into a screamfest? And maybe run the risk of it turning into something else?

Disasterous.

Report this person to the local entity that licenses counselors.

Stinks on ice, as I said.

magsugar13

YOU NEED A REAL COUNSELOR!!! No professional worth half a dollar would let this happen EVER!

None

This the first thing you need to change.

please dont waste you time worrying about what your vows said, a video, or pictures. This is a grown man, he doesnt need visuals!

this is NOT an IL problem this  is 100% all your h problem.

he allowed them to treat you liike this 

TarponMonoxide

He  told you they like you but they treat you like trash.

I think it's time for you to go. As I said, he probably  won't even miss you. He's got quite the entourage there.

VOR

So, two things.

I agree- divorcing him may mean you're alone in the interim, but it opens up a world of possibilities.  Staying married ENSURES that you'll be alone and disrespected by his family.  And, really, by him.  I'm not saying "DIVORCE"!!!!  But you need to look at it past "I'll be alone".

And I also agree- get a new counselor.

Oh, oops.  it's three things-

so much "ditto" Disney.  This boils down to character.  And it doesn't sound like your DH has much.  A man who won't defend his wife doesn't have  much character.  And I so fully do wonder about the future and the many other roadblocks you may encounter.  As much as his family dislikes you, they will ALWAYS be in his ear- telling him what to do, how to handle various situations, expecting to be put before you, etc.  And he will probably give THEIR words more weight than yours.

Fix this.  And if it can't be fixed, I would seriously consider leaving.  Trust me - having a man that you KNOW will always have your back no matter how dark life gets makes it all worth it.