Car Accident

KatieCutie05

I was in a bad car accident a few days ago. But thankfully my son was not with me. A car pulled out in front of me. My car flipped over a few times and miraculously I walked away with just a fractured wrist and injured hand. I still cant use my hand at all so i gta find out whats wrong. All er did was xray.
Scariest moment of my life. But God must have been protecting me because it could have been so much worse. I'm just so thankful to be alive and not seriously injured.
We are waiting for who the insurance company finds at fault. The cops totally got it wrong and issued me a citation for failure to stop to avoid an accident. Would have if I could! That will increase insurance but thankfully we have accident forgiveness so it won't skyrocket if for some reason they find me at fault.
And my car will be totalled, we havent gotten the amount yet. So we are now car shopping and kbb has my car at 9k so unfortunately we are going to need some loan to cover the difference because we have no savings. And I tell you it is like the worst thing ever financially to have to car shop right after a big accident.... but we have 2 weeks with the rental. We seriously considered a new car with top safety ratings and eyesight technology that will stop for you. I mean we have a baby, so if we are alive, screw the money. That's my heart talking. We still really want it but I think we have our heads around us now that a 28k car is insanity. My H even almost got pulled back into the car payment logic "well we just paid off my car so we can easily afford the payment.... and it's 1.5% interest" but we talked ourself off the ledge. I think! But I think we are looking at no more then 18k with low mileage. So 10k down would give us 8k left to pay back in the next 6 months. I know dave ramsey would tell us to buy a 8k cash car but its just a waste cus we would have to replace it in a few years anyway. Although I hate debt with a passion so it's appealing
Of course now I'm seriously reconsidering this whole plan because God knows if I'm even going to live that long. all this sacrifice and pushing everything off for several years just for the sake of being debt free all seems so meaningless now.

vlagrl29

OMG how scary!  Glad you are ok.  If it's the other cars fault won't they write you a check for what your car was worth and you can use that to help you buy another car?

ETA - just read again and saw its with 9k which is great!  My parents had something similar happen to their car - got a check for 6k and bought a used car for 10k.

MommyLiberty5013

Sorry to hear about your accident. Glad you're okay, though. In some cities, there are orthopedic offices that offer urgent care facilities. You might see if something like that exists near you so you don't have to wait a long time to see an ortho. Or, maybe the ER can write you an immediate referral.

Why did the cops cite you??? I'd be curious to find out what the other driver's story is. Where there any witnesses? Any road cameras?

hoffse

Wow I'm sorry to hear that, but thank goodness you are ok!

Obviously you guys need to be comfortable with what you choose (financially), but I have never felt bad about spending money for car safety.  It's the most dangerous thing any of us do day in, day out.  I would always make the choice to borrow (or borrow more) to get a safer vehicle.  

Anyway, I know that's probably not helpful.  And you should probably take what I say with a grain of salt anyway, since I'm not on the Dave Ramsey train, and I know you guys are.

kmurphy2131

I do not follow Dave Ramsey, so my opinions on these things is different.  I know that it can work well for some people, but there are several reasons why I choose not to do it.  One of them is that I worry about putting my entire life on hold/sacrificing too much to be able to enjoy life, I don't know what next month holds let alone next year or 10 years from now. 

In your circumstances, if you can afford a payment, I would not hesitate.  I might think a little more about what car you truly want/need though.  I think you can get a good and safe car for less than 28K.  

vlagrl29

yeah what kind of car are you looking at?  I know both mine and DH's cars if bought brand new are way under 28k each.

KatieCutie05

An SUV. We need a family vehicle. I had a Dodge Nitro that's basically the equivalent of a Jeep Liberty. I really liked my car but it was small for H and the gas mileage was horrible for long commute. We like the Ford edge and Subaru Forrester. I test drove the new Forrester and I really liked it. Subarus to my understanding have the best safety ratings, they hold their value and they are reliable. The new body style started in 2014 and are about 22k...but the brand new ones come with eyesight technology which detects if there's a car in front of you and brakes for you, and alerts you if you drift from your lane. Those are 27k. They also get really good gas mileage. As someone who has just been through an accident, it makes me want every safety feature possible regardless of the cost. But I dont think I can handle another 20k car payment. We also like the Ford edge which we can get used with low mileage for around 18k. We are open to others but we need space and good gas mileage which don't exactly go hand in hand.

jtmh2012

KatieCutie05 said:

but the brand new ones come with eyesight technology which detects if there's a car in front of you and brakes for you, and alerts you if you drift from your lane. Those are 27k.

I just wanted to mention, don't depend on the eyesight technology.  My wife's Accord has it.  The lane detection works really well, however, the forward collision stuff works sometimes better than others.  Sometimes it doesn't go off when I think it should, goes off when I think it shouldn't, etc.  Also, it's really designed to stop you from plowing into the back of someone you're following.  It may or may not catch for instance the driver making a left turn in front of you in time to save you.

Not saying it's a bad thing to have.  It just isn't foolproof.

As for the loan, I don't follow Dave Ramsey.  A little too conservative for my tastes.  However, 1.5% is essentially free money.  Get a vehicle you're comfortable with with a payment you can comfortably afford.  And if you have a loan, so be it.

AprilZ81

Also, don't be tempted to drag out the payments for 5-6 years to get a lower payment.  Three years is optimal, four years is "okay" and if you have to spread it out longer than that you are buying more vehicle than you can afford.

dragonstarjk

Wow, I am so sorry this happened to you.  I'm not a DR follower either, and I'm also not debt-averse.  I do believe in buying for safety when it comes to a vehicle.   That being said, if I remember correctly, you guys have struggled and a large payment really might be the last thing to take on at this point.  An extra 5K for that one feature you are talking about doesn't seem worth it to me when the slightly less expensive Subaru is really probably just as safe.

Also, about your wrist--make sure to have them check if it is dislocated/disjointed.  A few years ago I fell and dislocated my elbow (landing on my wrist).  They x-rayed my wrist, but they were so focused on my elbow that they didn't give the wrist a ton of attention.  I was in intense pain for two weeks before going to physical therapy, and the PT told me my wrist had simply been out of place that whole time.  She gave it a quick tweak and I was immediately able to use my hand again.  I know it's not the same, but I'd have them check for it anyways.

jessica490

Wow, that is really scary and I am glad you are ok!! Good thing your baby wasn't in the car!

brij2006

I am so so so sorry this happened to you, but am so glad that you are okay!

First off, I would definitely be making some phone calls to the police station to discuss the ticket and push to get that removed from the report and the citation reviewed.  If you were cited for failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident and the other person was not ticketed, then just about all insurance companies will consider you at fault.

Next: If I remember right, you guys have a very tight budget and have over $100k in student loan debt that you're trying to pay off.  However, it's a 5+ year timeline to get them finished, even with your strict budget (please correct me if I'm wrong).

In that case, I would highly highly highly recommend to take this situation and make the best of it.  If you feel like you will be given $9,000 for the vehicle, then find something very reasonable for much less than that and put the remained toward whichever debt you're working on in the snowball.  You do not NEED an SUV.  I know people will think I'm crazy in this, but there is no NEED for an SUV with a family.  Nor is there a NEED to buy a brand new car for extra fancy safety features when there are plenty of other options out there that have similar safety specs for a much lower price.

So I would recommend to take $4-5,000 of this money and put it toward buying yourself a very used, reliable vehicle.  It is possible.  I promise.  Some vehicles in this range to look for that have good mechanical and safety records, yet have a good amount of space are: Ford Fusion, Ford Taurus, Chevrolet Impala, Buick Century, Honda Accord, and Toyota Camry. This means you would purchase one with over 100k miles on it and wouldn't have all of the fanciest bells and whistles.  But this is going to be the smartest and most practical option of them all. 

As a fellow DR follower, please do not have this accident scare you away from following the plan that does work. I know it's hard to not be emotional about this decision right now and feel like an expensive car with perfect safety rating is a NEED, but it just isn't practical.  Also, look at the backing for all of those special safety testing and research.  It's all funded by the auto companies.  Fishy?  I think not.  It's a great way to add some new safety crash to try and scare people into a brand new car when they simply can not afford it.  

ETA: My H drove a $3,000 2006 Mazda 6 while we were getting out of debt.  We drove DD around in it for a long time.  Now we're on BS7 and H's vehicle is only worth $8k and my SUV is worth $12k.  My SUV has amazing safety ratings and fits a ton of stuff (Ford Flex).  Just because we have DD doesn't mean we need an $18k+ vehicle.  We've even said that my next vehicle will likely be purchased in 3-5 years and it will be $10k-$15k (with cash). 

formerlyGDaisy09

KatieCutie05 said:

An SUV. We need a family vehicle. I had a Dodge Nitro that's basically the equivalent of a Jeep Liberty. I really liked my car but it was small for H and the gas mileage was horrible for long commute. We like the Ford edge and Subaru Forrester. I test drove the new Forrester and I really liked it. Subarus to my understanding have the best safety ratings, they hold their value and they are reliable. The new body style started in 2014 and are about 22k...but the brand new ones come with eyesight technology which detects if there's a car in front of you and brakes for you, and alerts you if you drift from your lane. Those are 27k. They also get really good gas mileage. As someone who has just been through an accident, it makes me want every safety feature possible regardless of the cost. But I dont think I can handle another 20k car payment. We also like the Ford edge which we can get used with low mileage for around 18k. We are open to others but we need space and good gas mileage which don't exactly go hand in hand.

SO glad you are OK!

I would never compromise on safety to completely avoid debt. the safety features on newer cars are 100% worth the extra money. I know of at least two people who insisted on driving beaters to save money, were in car accidents, and if they had spent a few thousand more to get a newer vehicle they would have saved themselves thousands more in medical expenses and lost wages. not to get toow graphic, but one of these people was driving a late 1990's modle car, because of the way the front end collapsed into the drivers area their femur went through the back of their pelvic gurdle. 

As far as subarus go, I LOVE my outback. they're a little more expensive than the foresters, however if you're looking for an SUV-type vehicle for toting around baby stuff the outback has significantly more trunk space than the forester and there is more space between the front and back seats, two adults can actually sit pretty comfrotably on either side of our center installed carseat, and when it's time for a second carseat there's lots of space. the new body style for the Outback (built like the Honda CRV) started in 2010, I drive a 2011, you could probably get your hands on a 2011 or 2012 for less than 20K. 

Like Volvos, there's some confounding in the safety data for subarus (the people that drive them tend to already be safety oriented). that said mine handles excellently in all weather conditions and I really like the easy switching between manual and automatic control of the transmission, and having the option to shift manually right from the stearingwheel paddles without having to do anything else, especially for driving in the snow. 

als1982

brij2006 said:

I am so so so sorry this happened to you, but am so glad that you are okay!

First off, I would definitely be making some phone calls to the police station to discuss the ticket and push to get that removed from the report and the citation reviewed.  If you were cited for failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident and the other person was not ticketed, then just about all insurance companies will consider you at fault.

Next: If I remember right, you guys have a very tight budget and have over $100k in student loan debt that you're trying to pay off.  However, it's a 5+ year timeline to get them finished, even with your strict budget (please correct me if I'm wrong).

In that case, I would highly highly highly recommend to take this situation and make the best of it.  If you feel like you will be given $9,000 for the vehicle, then find something very reasonable for much less than that and put the remained toward whichever debt you're working on in the snowball.  You do not NEED an SUV.  I know people will think I'm crazy in this, but there is no NEED for an SUV with a family.  Nor is there a NEED to buy a brand new car for extra fancy safety features when there are plenty of other options out there that have similar safety specs for a much lower price.

So I would recommend to take $4-5,000 of this money and put it toward buying yourself a very used, reliable vehicle.  It is possible.  I promise.  Some vehicles in this range to look for that have good mechanical and safety records, yet have a good amount of space are: Ford Fusion, Ford Taurus, Chevrolet Impala, Buick Century, Honda Accord, and Toyota Camry. This means you would purchase one with over 100k miles on it and wouldn't have all of the fanciest bells and whistles.  But this is going to be the smartest and most practical option of them all. 

As a fellow DR follower, please do not have this accident scare you away from following the plan that does work. I know it's hard to not be emotional about this decision right now and feel like an expensive car with perfect safety rating is a NEED, but it just isn't practical.  Also, look at the backing for all of those special safety testing and research.  It's all funded by the auto companies.  Fishy?  I think not.  It's a great way to add some new safety crash to try and scare people into a brand new car when they simply can not afford it.  

ETA: My H drove a $3,000 2006 Mazda 6 while we were getting out of debt.  We drove DD around in it for a long time.  Now we're on BS7 and H's vehicle is only worth $8k and my SUV is worth $12k.  My SUV has amazing safety ratings and fits a ton of stuff (Ford Flex).  Just because we have DD doesn't mean we need an $18k+ vehicle.  We've even said that my next vehicle will likely be purchased in 3-5 years and it will be $10k-$15k (with cash). 

I'm not a Dave Ramsey follower, but I agree with every single word of this.

brij2006

Also, look for these types of vehicles on Craigslist and cars.com.  98% of the time a dealership is going to monopolize on your situation and play into you and your H's emotions to try and sell you a vehicle that is way out of your price range.  It's sad how true this is.  

There are definitely vehicles out there with lesser safety ratings than others.  However, that doesn't mean that in order to get one of those vehicles with higher ratings, you have to spend a ton of money.  H's $3,000 2006 Mazda 6 actually had better safety ratings than his $13,000 2011 Nissan Altima.  

vlagrl29

I'm still driving a 2 door hatchback ford focus and will when we have baby #2.  When it does die I will get another ford focus but a 4 door hatchback.

labro

Everything @brij2006 said.

I'm so glad you're ok and the baby wasn't in the car! My sister and her H just lost TWO cars because my BIL apparently can't pay attention and I'm so glad my niece wasn't in the car at the time.

Mazda is a good brand and they are very affordable both new and used. I don't know a lot about the CX-9 which is their 7 seater, but the models I've driven (the 3, the 6, and now the CX-3) have all received good ratings from Consumer Reports and the more recent model years have tons of great safety features.

My sister found a 2007 Honda Pilot for under $9k. It has over 100k miles on it, but the body was in good shape and it was in good condition mechanically as well. There are GOOD used cars on the market with good safety ratings.

short+sassy

Just wanted to send out my condolences!  I'm sorry this happened to you.  Your accident sounds terrifying and I'm so glad you weren't more badly injured.  I hope your wrist and hand heal quickly.

Have you looked at buying one of the cars you like used, but only a few years old?  You probably can't get 1.5% interest on a used car, but you'll save 30-50% off the price of the same car brand new.

It is such a double whammy to be injured in an accident, have your car totaled, and then have the stress of trying to buy another one.  This happened to me two years ago.  One thing I did that was helpful is, instead of starting my two week car rental right away, I waited until I was well enough to go back to work and start looking for another car.  No use having a car rental I'm not really using for a few days anyway.

Especially since two weeks (IMO) is a very short time to properly find another car.  And I had to bend my insurance company's arm behind their back to even get two weeks.  Originally, they were only going to give me one. 

brij2006

KatieCutie05 said:

An SUV. We need a family vehicle. I had a Dodge Nitro that's basically the equivalent of a Jeep Liberty. I really liked my car but it was small for H and the gas mileage was horrible for long commute. We like the Ford edge and Subaru Forrester. I test drove the new Forrester and I really liked it. Subarus to my understanding have the best safety ratings, they hold their value and they are reliable. The new body style started in 2014 and are about 22k...but the brand new ones come with eyesight technology which detects if there's a car in front of you and brakes for you, and alerts you if you drift from your lane. Those are 27k. They also get really good gas mileage. As someone who has just been through an accident, it makes me want every safety feature possible regardless of the cost. But I dont think I can handle another 20k car payment. We also like the Ford edge which we can get used with low mileage for around 18k. We are open to others but we need space and good gas mileage which don't exactly go hand in hand.

As for the Ford Edge, have you tried to fit the car seat into one of those?  Biggest PITA!  Granted, my H is very tall.  But we put DD behind the passenger seat (rear facing) and I still have to move my seat up quite a bit.  The cargo space also only really held her stroller and a few groceries.  I was shocked at how small they were.  My Ford Fusion had more space than that, and that's a car.  MIL has a Ford Edge, so that's why we've had so much experience with it, and she takes DD often.  

A lot of those crossover SUV's are actually smaller than a full size car.  So that's one thing to keep in mind.  And once you get into the SUV market, you might as well add another $10k to your price range.  It's crazy how many people want an SUV right now, and it's hard to find a good one for under $10k. 

hoffse

The crash tests from the IIHS are funded by insurance companies.  

I'll second what @GDaisy said about the newer vehicles and how they are built vs. older ones.  What she is describing happened to her friends is a frontal collision situation where the engine gets shoved into the driver.  The IIHS started testing for that very situation in more recent models, and some of the very popular family-friendly "safe" cars failed spectacularly when they started doing it.  Most car manufacturers have reengineered their cars in the last few models to account for it.

The good news is this test has now been out for a few years so you can get a used car in a model year that passed it.  There are a few models that passed it on the first try, but not many.  If you buy any model year older than the test, I would stick with one of the models that passed on the first try because it's more likely their earlier models would have passed had they been crashed in that way.

The eye-sight technology is good, but only at low speeds.  It may help you avoid fender benders, but probably not high-intensity crashes.

I agree you don't need an SUV with one kid.  I grew up taking 12-hour road trips with the dog and my parents in 2-door Mazda.  It may be cramped, but it can be done.  

You also don't need a brand new, off-the-lot car, especially if your budget is tight.

Think carefully about which safety features matter for you.  There is a difference between engineered safety and technology safety. A car that's engineered so that the engine won't be shoved into the driver in a frontal collision is very important IMO.  Now that they are crashing for it, I don't see a reason to compromise there.  You're talking about something structural, and some cars on the road have been engineered to account for it, while others have not.  It's like when airbags used to be optional - buying a car without them just never made sense to me.

Another safety thing I might look for in your situation is a vehicle that lets you do a middle seat LATCH for your son's car seat.  I would personally pay a little more for that feature because it dramatically lowers the risk of injury in a side-impact situation if he can ride in the middle. This might restrict you to the cross-over sized cars at a minimum, I don't know.  I do know my CR-V has an option for middle LATCH, so this isn't exclusive to large SUV's.

For the technology packages, I think it's a harder call, and you guys need to think about what is important for you and what would actually be helpful to you for the way you drive.  H and I are going to replace my car at the end of this year, and he wants to spring for lane departure because I tend to drift when I'm bored and thinking of other things (happens a lot).  However, I habitually drive with multiple car lengths in front of me, so we probably aren't going to spring for eye-sight.  It's just very rare that I have to slam on my brakes, and it's usually because somebody cut me off, which isn't something eye-sight could prevent anyway.

brij2006

hoffse said:

Another safety thing I might look for in your situation is a vehicle that lets you do a middle seat LATCH for your son's car seat.  I would personally pay a little more for that feature because it dramatically lowers the risk of injury in a side-impact situation if he can ride in the middle. This might restrict you to the cross-over sized cars at a minimum, I don't know.  I do know my CR-V has an option for middle LATCH, so this isn't exclusive to large SUV's.

*****SITB*******

This feature is actually very hit and miss, it's weird.  I kept searching for it when we were shopping for an SUV, and surprisingly my huge Ford Flex does not have this feature.  However, almost all vehicles have a recommended place for putting a car seat.  Some vehicles it's the center seat, others it's the side seats, and some even specify which side it needs to be on.  Mine actually recommends the side seats because the side curtain airbags can soften any side impact.  To where if it's installed in the center seat, there's a lot of space between the center seat and the airbags to help soften any blow.  I was actually very shocked when I read that from the manufacturer. 

Also, latch can only be used up to so many pounds in car seats (each one has a different max), and they're actually finding that latch isn't safer than using the seat belt.  It just makes it easier to install the car seat correctly.  We actually use the seat belt in H's vehicle because it's easier than using latch, for the type of seat he has. 

formerlyGDaisy09

hoffse said:

The crash tests from the IIHS are funded by insurance companies.  

I'll second what @GDaisy said about the newer vehicles and how they are built vs. older ones.  What she is describing happened to her friends is a frontal collision situation where the engine gets shoved into the driver.  The IIHS started testing for that very situation in more recent models, and some of the very popular family-friendly "safe" cars failed spectacularly when they started doing it.  Most car manufacturers have reengineered their cars in the last few models to account for it.

The good news is this test has now been out for a few years so you can get a used car in a model year that passed it.  There are a few models that passed it on the first try, but not many.  If you buy any model year older than the test, I would stick with one of the models that passed on the first try because it's more likely their earlier models would have passed had they been crashed in that way.

The eye-sight technology is good, but only at low speeds.  It may help you avoid fender benders, but probably not high-intensity crashes.

I agree you don't need an SUV with one kid.  I grew up taking 12-hour road trips with the dog and my parents in 2-door Mazda.  It may be cramped, but it can be done.  

You also don't need a brand new, off-the-lot car, especially if your budget is tight.

Think carefully about which safety features matter for you.  There is a difference between engineered safety and technology safety. A car that's engineered so that the engine won't be shoved into the driver in a frontal collision is very important IMO.  Now that they are crashing for it, I don't see a reason to compromise there.  You're talking about something structural, and some cars on the road have been engineered to account for it, while others have not.  It's like when airbags used to be optional - buying a car without them just never made sense to me.

Another safety thing I might look for in your situation is a vehicle that lets you do a middle seat LATCH for your son's car seat.  I would personally pay a little more for that feature because it dramatically lowers the risk of injury in a side-impact situation if he can ride in the middle. This might restrict you to the cross-over sized cars at a minimum, I don't know.  I do know my CR-V has an option for middle LATCH, so this isn't exclusive to large SUV's.

For the technology packages, I think it's a harder call, and you guys need to think about what is important for you and what would actually be helpful to you for the way you drive.  H and I are going to replace my car at the end of this year, and he wants to spring for lane departure because I tend to drift when I'm bored and thinking of other things (happens a lot).  However, I habitually drive with multiple car lengths in front of me, so we probably aren't going to spring for eye-sight.  It's just very rare that I have to slam on my brakes, and it's usually because somebody cut me off, which isn't something eye-sight could prevent anyway.

About LATCH...different carseats install different in every vehicle. Make sure you take your new car and carseat to a certified carseat technician to get a good install. all cars (after 2003) come with LATCH, however, there is a big book out there that crossreferences cars and carseats to help determine where and how in the vehicle you can get the best install. 

for example in my Outback, our carseat (graco click connect 40)  fits in the middle seat, therefore that should be the safest place in the vehicle to install it (the most protection from front/rear/side impact crashes). however there is no LATCH system on the middle seat, however it is still the safest place to install it. the carseat tech helped us get a good seatbelt install of the base in the center seat. we used the LATCH system on our other vehicle. 

according to the carseat tech, it's a myth that the LATCH system is safer; it's just not as complicated as a seatbelt install, and might not need as much adjusting as you go. there are some vehicles that you can use the LATCH system on a middle seat install by using one of the latch hooks on each of the side seats, however according to her giant manual the Outback isn't one of them. 

KatieCutie05

I cant do a sedan with DS after coming from an SUV. My husband has a jetta and its a huge pita to get lo in and out of the car. (having the carseat in the middle is a must for me) he has to do it verryy slow and careful just to not hit the babies head. Im small and its even hard for me. Its SOO much easier in my suv. H didnt understand the need for an SUV until he had to do it in the jetta.  We looked at just getting like a used Liberty for like 11k but the gas mileage wouldnt do anything for us. i have a 35 mile one way commute so gas kills us. between the large suitcase, pack n play and stroller alone, even the surprisingly large trunk of the 2011 jetta, it just didnt fit so any roadtrips we have to take my car and just deal with the gas cost.

 not to mention we have two large dogs that we needed to drop off at the pet hotel on the way down. Actually now that i think about it that third row would be a huge help when we have the 2nd kid, but its just not a necessity right now.   

I have been having doubts about this whole DR plan before this. we have 77k in student loans left. 16k and the 61k. the soonest we could do is 3 years to get that paid off. but we are also saving nothing for retirement and havent been for 2 years trying to get this debt paid off. Our original plan had us paying off the debt in 3 years, then saving to buy H his truck back since he sold it to help get out of debt. then we were planning on saving for a boat and down payment to move closer to civilization. that had us with the boat in january 2021 and the house that summer probably. but H is getting really worried about retirement and 15% of our income is technically 1250 a month. but realistically we only have 1600 extra at this point. if we put away for retirement we cant get the debt paid off in any decent time period and basically means h never gets a boat or truck back. he had no problem waiting 5 years but he's not going to do 10. so at this point we are thinking about pushing off just the 61k student loan to before baby step 6 (the house) If it were a second mortgage then even DR would tell us to wait because its more then half our annual income. so basically we would pay off my 16k student loan and w/e car we get in the next 1.5 years then do a FFEF, truck boat, down payment and then SL's. It comes down to retirement or paying off the student loans and with a 7.8% apr on the loan its not an easy decision.

formerlyGDaisy09

I think there are lots of different ways to approach debt payoff, DR is one of them, but you have to find what you're comfortable doing. 

do either of the places you work offer a retirement match? are you at least taking advantage of matching programs if they're offered? 

Maybe post your budget (include minimum payment, interest rate, and balance on SLs) and get some opinions again. We're working on about 55K in student loans, there are lots of things we could do to pay them off faster, but we're trading off taking a little longer to pay them back for retirement savings, investing in our house, and enjoying some of our money now so we don't drive eachother absolutely insane with debt payoff. (seriously our marriage probably wouldn't last on the DR plan). 

hoffse

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

for example in my Outback, our carseat (graco click connect 40)  fits in the middle seat, therefore that should be the safest place in the vehicle to install it (the most protection from front/rear/side impact crashes). however there is no LATCH system on the middle seat, however it is still the safest place to install it. the carseat tech helped us get a good seatbelt install of the base in the center seat. we used the LATCH system on our other vehicle. 

according to the carseat tech, it's a myth that the LATCH system is safer; it's just not as complicated as a seatbelt install, and might not need as much adjusting as you go. there are some vehicles that you can use the LATCH system on a middle seat install by using one of the latch hooks on each of the side seats, however according to her giant manual the Outback isn't one of them. 

Yeah, I know at a certain point you have to do a seat belt install even with LATCH because of weight limits.  Not going to lie though, I would prefer LATCH if that was an option because it's (usually) simpler and not as easy to screw up.  I just sort of envision having to take the seat out and then re-installing it while stressed out and sleep deprived, at least when kids are really little.  I would pay more to make that process as easy as possible so that I'm confident I'm doing it correctly.  I would also pay more for a seat that is very easy to install for the same reason.

At the very least, a middle LATCH would be a factor that would weigh in favor of one car over another for me if I was deciding between two of them. That's just me, though, and it's a real concern for us because we're likely to need to move seats around a lot once we have kids.  If we could install it and just leave it in place, then I wouldn't worry about it.

The CR-V actually has 5 anchors in the back, so you don't have to borrow from both sides to use the middle seat.  It's a true middle seat LATCH system.  It's great.  I don't know why more car manufacturers don't do this.  It probably costs Honda an extra $10 per vehicle to install the fifth anchor. 

julieanne912

Sorry to hear about your accident!  That's so scary, but like you said, at least your baby wasn't with you.

Everyone has the debt side covered, but just wanted to give a yay for a Ford Edge.  I have a 2013 Limited AWD and I love it.  Now, I don't have kids so I can't comment on the car seat part.  I also like having an SUV because we have 2 dogs, and when we go on trips, we always take my car so between our stuff and the dogs and their stuff, we fill it up pretty good.  Once we get ready to TTC we are probably upgrading to an Explorer (we also want to tow a small utility trailer with it).

My commute is probably 25% stop and go, 75% steady driving (not usually highway, but not really stop and go either).  I average 21.5 MPG, I have the v6 in mine.  I can get 400ish miles out of a tank.  I'm sure the 4 cylinder version gets better than that, but it's probably a slug.... I like to feel like I can get out of the way if needed, and usually 4 cylinder SUVs are pretty slow on the uptake. 

If you did decide to go the less expensive route, I used to have a 2008 Ford Escape and I really liked it too... the downside on that was the gas mileage and the tiny gas tank... at the time I was commuting around 45-50 miles each way and was having to fill up every 2.5 days because the tank was so small and the gas mileage was only in the 15mpg range.

brij2006

KatieCutie05 said:

I cant do a sedan with DS after coming from an SUV. My husband has a jetta and its a huge pita to get lo in and out of the car. (having the carseat in the middle is a must for me) he has to do it verryy slow and careful just to not hit the babies head. Im small and its even hard for me. Its SOO much easier in my suv. H didnt understand the need for an SUV until he had to do it in the jetta.  We looked at just getting like a used Liberty for like 11k but the gas mileage wouldnt do anything for us. i have a 35 mile one way commute so gas kills us. between the large suitcase, pack n play and stroller alone, even the surprisingly large trunk of the 2011 jetta, it just didnt fit so any roadtrips we have to take my car and just deal with the gas cost.

 not to mention we have two large dogs that we needed to drop off at the pet hotel on the way down. Actually now that i think about it that third row would be a huge help when we have the 2nd kid, but its just not a necessity right now.   

I have been having doubts about this whole DR plan before this. we have 77k in student loans left. 16k and the 61k. the soonest we could do is 3 years to get that paid off. but we are also saving nothing for retirement and havent been for 2 years trying to get this debt paid off. Our original plan had us paying off the debt in 3 years, then saving to buy H his truck back since he sold it to help get out of debt. then we were planning on saving for a boat and down payment to move closer to civilization. that had us with the boat in january 2021 and the house that summer probably. but H is getting really worried about retirement and 15% of our income is technically 1250 a month. but realistically we only have 1600 extra at this point. if we put away for retirement we cant get the debt paid off in any decent time period and basically means h never gets a boat or truck back. he had no problem waiting 5 years but he's not going to do 10. so at this point we are thinking about pushing off just the 61k student loan to before baby step 6 (the house) If it were a second mortgage then even DR would tell us to wait because its more then half our annual income. so basically we would pay off my 16k student loan and w/e car we get in the next 1.5 years then do a FFEF, truck boat, down payment and then SL's. It comes down to retirement or paying off the student loans and with a 7.8% apr on the loan its not an easy decision.

First, I'm sorry you're feeling this way.

I know everyone is going to jump on the "OMG your retirement and no life" thing about DR.  So I'm going to jump on this while I can.

It's hard.  Very hard.  There's no doubt about that.

However, this entire thing is about changing your mindset.  Both of you.  It isn't just a temporary get out of debt plan.  It's making very smart financial choices for your future and the future of your family. 

It sounds like you guys are getting discouraged because it's taking a while.  Keep in mind though, if you were to take on more debt for a newer/nicer vehicle, how much damage will that do?  Also, will your H resent you for the fact that you got to have the vehicle you "wanted" while he's still not having a truck?  Taking out debt for an SUV you want, while he's still being told no about the truck and boat, isn't going to go over well.

Have you taken the FPU class?  If not, please do.  You need the support and the motivation.

Other parts of it, DR also recommends to find ways to bring in extra income in order to get this done as quickly as possible.

You may feel like you're being "deprived" right now, but it's worth it.  Every bit of it. Paying off that last student loan and telling Sallie Mae to shove it, is pretty high up there in best days of my life.  

The thing is, if you were to keep these debt and payments (then add on more for the car), and contribute 15% toward retirement now, what will that do to your budget?  Will you feel like you're being pulled in multiple directions and getting no traction?  This is the reason DR's plan works.  You get intense about 1 thing at a time and put every penny possible toward it. However, this plan has to be worked together.  You both have to tell each other no to things, do the budget together, dream about how life will be when you're out of debt, talk about how you will be able to pay for your son's college so he doesn't have this student loan burden like you, etc.  Be accountable to each other and together on this.  It's the only way it will work.

Get some support.  Both of you.  Join a Dave Ramsey Facebook page, listen to his radio show or podcast, play around with your budget and see what it will look like when you have no payments.  Get dreaming.  Put the goal on the fridge and shade it in as you pay every penny off.   

formerlyGDaisy09

hoffse said:

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

for example in my Outback, our carseat (graco click connect 40)  fits in the middle seat, therefore that should be the safest place in the vehicle to install it (the most protection from front/rear/side impact crashes). however there is no LATCH system on the middle seat, however it is still the safest place to install it. the carseat tech helped us get a good seatbelt install of the base in the center seat. we used the LATCH system on our other vehicle. 

according to the carseat tech, it's a myth that the LATCH system is safer; it's just not as complicated as a seatbelt install, and might not need as much adjusting as you go. there are some vehicles that you can use the LATCH system on a middle seat install by using one of the latch hooks on each of the side seats, however according to her giant manual the Outback isn't one of them. 

Yeah, I know at a certain point you have to do a seat belt install even with LATCH because of weight limits.  Not going to lie though, I would prefer LATCH if that was an option because it's (usually) simpler and not as easy to screw up.  I just sort of envision having to take the seat out and then re-installing it while stressed out and sleep deprived, at least when kids are really little.  I would pay more to make that process as easy as possible so that I'm confident I'm doing it correctly.  I would also pay more for a seat that is very easy to install for the same reason.

At the very least, a middle LATCH would be a factor that would weigh in favor of one car over another for me if I was deciding between two of them. That's just me, though, and it's a real concern for us because we're likely to need to move seats around a lot once we have kids.  If we could install it and just leave it in place, then I wouldn't worry about it.

The CR-V actually has 5 anchors in the back, so you don't have to borrow from both sides to use the middle seat.  It's a true middle seat LATCH system.  It's great.  I don't know why more car manufacturers don't do this.  It probably costs Honda an extra $10 per vehicle to install the fifth anchor. 

the belt path install actually wasn't complicated at all, once we got the certified carseat person to show us (it was easier than the LATCH install in the other car). once she showed us I feel confident I could duplicate it. That's also the bonus to the bases plus the carseat, I don't forsee us having to uninstall or reinstall the bases ever. 

brij2006

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

hoffse said:

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

for example in my Outback, our carseat (graco click connect 40)  fits in the middle seat, therefore that should be the safest place in the vehicle to install it (the most protection from front/rear/side impact crashes). however there is no LATCH system on the middle seat, however it is still the safest place to install it. the carseat tech helped us get a good seatbelt install of the base in the center seat. we used the LATCH system on our other vehicle. 

according to the carseat tech, it's a myth that the LATCH system is safer; it's just not as complicated as a seatbelt install, and might not need as much adjusting as you go. there are some vehicles that you can use the LATCH system on a middle seat install by using one of the latch hooks on each of the side seats, however according to her giant manual the Outback isn't one of them. 

Yeah, I know at a certain point you have to do a seat belt install even with LATCH because of weight limits.  Not going to lie though, I would prefer LATCH if that was an option because it's (usually) simpler and not as easy to screw up.  I just sort of envision having to take the seat out and then re-installing it while stressed out and sleep deprived, at least when kids are really little.  I would pay more to make that process as easy as possible so that I'm confident I'm doing it correctly.  I would also pay more for a seat that is very easy to install for the same reason.

At the very least, a middle LATCH would be a factor that would weigh in favor of one car over another for me if I was deciding between two of them. That's just me, though, and it's a real concern for us because we're likely to need to move seats around a lot once we have kids.  If we could install it and just leave it in place, then I wouldn't worry about it.

The CR-V actually has 5 anchors in the back, so you don't have to borrow from both sides to use the middle seat.  It's a true middle seat LATCH system.  It's great.  I don't know why more car manufacturers don't do this.  It probably costs Honda an extra $10 per vehicle to install the fifth anchor. 

the belt path install actually wasn't complicated at all, once we got the certified carseat person to show us (it was easier than the LATCH install in the other car). once she showed us I feel confident I could duplicate it. That's also the bonus to the bases plus the carseat, I don't forsee us having to uninstall or reinstall the bases ever. 

****STUCK AGAIN*****

Ditto.  The infant seat with the base is a breeze. We actually returned our 2nd base because it was that easy to just switch it to the other car whenever we needed to.

Now the convertible car seats are a whole different story.  H makes fun of how safety oriented I am about the car seats, but DD will be rear facing for at least 2 years.  That's where vehicles get tricky.  I have a Ford Flex and H is 6'5".  We have no issues with the big convertible seat behind him in my car.  But my mom's Ford Explorer and MIL's Ford Edge, you have to move the front seat up in order to install it. My dad and H can't sit in that front seat because there isn't enough room.  We tried out 6 different seats in my moms car before we found one that was easy for her to install properly and didn't take up a ton of space.  

My car seat very rarely ever gets taken out.  H's gets moved between his vehicle, the crappy SUV he drives when it's snowing (99 Ford Expedition with no latch), the toy car (97 Lincoln Mark VIII with no latch) and MIL's Ford Edge.  So we bought one that is super easy to install with the seat belt because of it constantly being moved around and a mix of people are installing it.

However, if someone isn't planning to rear face their kids for an extended amount of time, then I wouldn't even worry about any of that when picking out a vehicle.  It's such a short time period, that it isn't worth going into debt for or buying a vehicle that is out of the price range because of it. 

orangehills

glad you are ok!! and i think having a bit of a payment that you can afford is worth it for a safe car that will last for awhile longer!! 

formerlyGDaisy09

brij2006 said:

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

hoffse said:

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

for example in my Outback, our carseat (graco click connect 40)  fits in the middle seat, therefore that should be the safest place in the vehicle to install it (the most protection from front/rear/side impact crashes). however there is no LATCH system on the middle seat, however it is still the safest place to install it. the carseat tech helped us get a good seatbelt install of the base in the center seat. we used the LATCH system on our other vehicle. 

according to the carseat tech, it's a myth that the LATCH system is safer; it's just not as complicated as a seatbelt install, and might not need as much adjusting as you go. there are some vehicles that you can use the LATCH system on a middle seat install by using one of the latch hooks on each of the side seats, however according to her giant manual the Outback isn't one of them. 

Yeah, I know at a certain point you have to do a seat belt install even with LATCH because of weight limits.  Not going to lie though, I would prefer LATCH if that was an option because it's (usually) simpler and not as easy to screw up.  I just sort of envision having to take the seat out and then re-installing it while stressed out and sleep deprived, at least when kids are really little.  I would pay more to make that process as easy as possible so that I'm confident I'm doing it correctly.  I would also pay more for a seat that is very easy to install for the same reason.

At the very least, a middle LATCH would be a factor that would weigh in favor of one car over another for me if I was deciding between two of them. That's just me, though, and it's a real concern for us because we're likely to need to move seats around a lot once we have kids.  If we could install it and just leave it in place, then I wouldn't worry about it.

The CR-V actually has 5 anchors in the back, so you don't have to borrow from both sides to use the middle seat.  It's a true middle seat LATCH system.  It's great.  I don't know why more car manufacturers don't do this.  It probably costs Honda an extra $10 per vehicle to install the fifth anchor. 

the belt path install actually wasn't complicated at all, once we got the certified carseat person to show us (it was easier than the LATCH install in the other car). once she showed us I feel confident I could duplicate it. That's also the bonus to the bases plus the carseat, I don't forsee us having to uninstall or reinstall the bases ever. 

****STUCK AGAIN*****

Ditto.  The infant seat with the base is a breeze. We actually returned our 2nd base because it was that easy to just switch it to the other car whenever we needed to.

Now the convertible car seats are a whole different story.  H makes fun of how safety oriented I am about the car seats, but DD will be rear facing for at least 2 years.  That's where vehicles get tricky.  I have a Ford Flex and H is 6'5".  We have no issues with the big convertible seat behind him in my car.  But my mom's Ford Explorer and MIL's Ford Edge, you have to move the front seat up in order to install it. My dad and H can't sit in that front seat because there isn't enough room.  We tried out 6 different seats in my moms car before we found one that was easy for her to install properly and didn't take up a ton of space.  

My car seat very rarely ever gets taken out.  H's gets moved between his vehicle, the crappy SUV he drives when it's snowing (99 Ford Expedition with no latch), the toy car (97 Lincoln Mark VIII with no latch) and MIL's Ford Edge.  So we bought one that is super easy to install with the seat belt because of it constantly being moved around and a mix of people are installing it.

However, if someone isn't planning to rear face their kids for an extended amount of time, then I wouldn't even worry about any of that when picking out a vehicle.  It's such a short time period, that it isn't worth going into debt for or buying a vehicle that is out of the price range because of it. 

they now recommend rear-facing as long as possible, at least until 2. Honestly I nearly had an anxiety attack when the safety tech said we couldn't do a middle seat LATCH install in my car, she talked me down and once she showed us the belt-path install I was fine. We paid more for our carseat because it's designed to go up to 40lbs to accommodate rearfacing in the infant seat longer (granted most babies outgrow carseats by height not weight). we'll likely drive both cars an hour and a half to BRU or buy buy baby when it comes time to buy a convertable seat so we can make sure we get a good rear install in both vehicles. both stores generally let you take the floor modles out to your car before you buy to make sure what you're getting will install well.